cityevader
ArboristSite Operative
Has anybody had a pressure gauge on the return line before? I'm curious because I want to hook up some automotive tranny coolers and don't want them to blow. If under 150 psi they'll be fine.
PSI of splitter's return line
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drmiller100
ArboristSite Guru
normal pressure is well under 50 psi.
if it is higher, there is a problem somewhere.
that being said, i question how you are going to get tranny coolers hooked up. they are little itty bitty lines, and restricting the fluid that much sure could crank up your pressure, and blow the coolers.
do you have heat issues???
if it is higher, there is a problem somewhere.
that being said, i question how you are going to get tranny coolers hooked up. they are little itty bitty lines, and restricting the fluid that much sure could crank up your pressure, and blow the coolers.
do you have heat issues???
mga
wandering
i had a pressure gauage on mine at one time....the pressure never got above maybe 10 psi, but i noticed it did fluctuate quite a bit. apparently there are times when, for a second, the pressure drops to zero then pops back up. i believe this happens when you hit the end of a push cycle.
the gauge broke because it went beyond the "zero" point.
but, i don't think you'll have any problems with pressure.
the gauge broke because it went beyond the "zero" point.
but, i don't think you'll have any problems with pressure.
cityevader
ArboristSite Operative
Thanks to the great info on this forum, I've discovered I have a very under-volumed reservoir at 5.5 gallons for 9hp 30-ton unit... and yes, it gets very hot. I'll get an actual temp reading today. Yesterday, in vertical mode I very briefly bumped my head on the control valve, dull-burn pain the rest of the day.
I was going to make a simple manifold, with one-inch hose in, and maybe five 3/8" nipples to each cooler. I'm well aware that it does not equal the same volume as the 1-inch, and have no idea what affect will occur from that volume reduction.
Of course, the five coolers are very fragile compared to a log, not to mention seems kinda hokey, plus will take up as much volume as an additional tank would be, but I've already got the coolers....and I don't have the fine welding skills needed to make a leak-proof tank from giant square tubing with end caps and hose fittings welded on, for an additional 7 gallons approx.
siiiggghhh
How about a few short pieces of copper tube from a baseboard hotwater system? 3/4" pipe, with all those fins on them to get rid of heat. The oil will flow through the 3/4" pipe a lot better tan a 1/4" nipple - ?
mga
wandering
yep.
and, maybe make a manifold so that two or three sections could be hooked up and get maximum cooling.
if you can find some from an old installation, the fins were made of steel, whereas the newer ones are aluminum. i still have an 8 foot section of that laying around.
cabinman
ArboristSite Guru
drmiller100
ArboristSite Guru
the gallons of oil isn't for heat.
it is actually to let the oil have a chance to get ri of its air.
if you are getting that hot, odds are good it is cavitating, and mght tear up the pump.
if you can't afford the bigger tank now, how will you afford the bigger tank and the new pump and the time to investigate the suction line to check for restrictions.
it is actually to let the oil have a chance to get ri of its air.
if you are getting that hot, odds are good it is cavitating, and mght tear up the pump.
if you can't afford the bigger tank now, how will you afford the bigger tank and the new pump and the time to investigate the suction line to check for restrictions.
Ohiowoodguy
ArboristSite Operative
I do believe that bigger tanks do mean less heat build-up. Compare any reputable splitter line (Timberwolf) and note the larger the splitter, the larger the tank. When I asked TW about putting a larger pump on my TW6, the hydraulic guru told me I'd need a larger, or additional tank; or a radiator
opcorn:
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Junkfxr
ArboristSite Operative
Yes, bigger tanks are for cooling most of the time, but that also coincides with letting air escape, cavitation causes heat. I used to work at a small sawmill for a while and the owner had a Barko knuckleboom being demoed to us. I walked around it and never saw an oil cooler anywhere so I asked the rep. about it. It held 500 gallons of hydraulic oil.... just for cooling, so that there wouldn't be another radiator to have to keep clean.
cityevader
ArboristSite Operative
temp reading
Just did about 45 minutes of splitting and used a meat thermometer for temp. The pump housing was at 175*F and the ram was at 125*F. I read somewhere on a hydraulic website that 180*F was max operating temp, but I don't know if that meant the ram itself, or the fluid, or the pump.
I like the idea of finned 3/4 tubing. Was also thinking of using an "immersion chiller" I almost had gotten for beer making. Basically about 30 feet of 3/4 copper tubing wound round and round to make a coil, which freshly cooked beer or hydraulic fluid flows through, and which is immersed in cold water, like a 30 gallon ice chest, which could be drained into the garden and refilled.
As for aeration...hmmm... I should peek into the tank while using it. But doesn't Mercon V have anti-foaming additives to prevent that?
Just did about 45 minutes of splitting and used a meat thermometer for temp. The pump housing was at 175*F and the ram was at 125*F. I read somewhere on a hydraulic website that 180*F was max operating temp, but I don't know if that meant the ram itself, or the fluid, or the pump.
I like the idea of finned 3/4 tubing. Was also thinking of using an "immersion chiller" I almost had gotten for beer making. Basically about 30 feet of 3/4 copper tubing wound round and round to make a coil, which freshly cooked beer or hydraulic fluid flows through, and which is immersed in cold water, like a 30 gallon ice chest, which could be drained into the garden and refilled.
As for aeration...hmmm... I should peek into the tank while using it. But doesn't Mercon V have anti-foaming additives to prevent that?
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Sounds like you would be better off springing for the larger tank and more oil volume now instead of repairing and much more dollars later.
Frank Boyer
Addicted to ArboristSite
An oil cooler off of a tractor, or some thing else with 3/4" lines, would work better. You do not want want to restrict flow on the return line. A fan would help it transfer heat faster.
Junkfxr
ArboristSite Operative
I have to agree with Cantoo. You'd be a lot better off with a bigger tank. By the time you get done with all of the plumbing you are talking about, you could have easily bought a 20 gallon tank (or two).
wkpoor
Addicted to ArboristSite
I've got a 21gal tank on my unit. Only running 15gallons right now but today after 2 good hours of splitting running at close to 21gpm all the time even in the hard ones (single stage pump) pump barely felt warmer than ambient. Go with the bigger tank.
Junkfxr
ArboristSite Operative
Wow, a 21 gpm single stage pump. What's turning it, 40+ hp diesel?
The tank is small, but I think here is something more here than small tank size. That is hot for a pump in a simple open center gear pump application.
How long does it take to get up to this temp?
What is the pressure out of the pump when you are just at high idle engine, valve in neutral, no motion? Then, when extending cylinder under no load? and retracting under no load? If any of these are over say 100-200 psi, there is something restricting oil flow. If there is mechanical work (binding in the slider) that would heat the slider from friction, but not heat up the oil. There may be some blocked fittings, undersized hoses or valve, or other source of pressure drop and heat. Basically, any pressure drop that isn't converted to work is converted to heat.
Do you spend a lot of time on relief valve, stalled into the wood, letting it sit there trying to push through? Then excess heat would be normal.
Rather than add cooling to dissipate heat, better to find the source of wasted energy and improve it to reduce the heat that is generated.
125-140 would be quite fine, but 175 tank temp is high. Both for oil/seal life, and for personal safety working around it. Mobile hydros routinely go over 175F but that is different applications totally.
k
How long does it take to get up to this temp?
What is the pressure out of the pump when you are just at high idle engine, valve in neutral, no motion? Then, when extending cylinder under no load? and retracting under no load? If any of these are over say 100-200 psi, there is something restricting oil flow. If there is mechanical work (binding in the slider) that would heat the slider from friction, but not heat up the oil. There may be some blocked fittings, undersized hoses or valve, or other source of pressure drop and heat. Basically, any pressure drop that isn't converted to work is converted to heat.
Do you spend a lot of time on relief valve, stalled into the wood, letting it sit there trying to push through? Then excess heat would be normal.
Rather than add cooling to dissipate heat, better to find the source of wasted energy and improve it to reduce the heat that is generated.
125-140 would be quite fine, but 175 tank temp is high. Both for oil/seal life, and for personal safety working around it. Mobile hydros routinely go over 175F but that is different applications totally.
k
cityevader
ArboristSite Operative
Temp reading was after 45 minutes of working on moderate wood....can't imagine the temp of the previous two sessions of a couple hours on many many crotch-pices over 2 ft wide!!!!
I've no idea about pressures. I vaguely remember a couple plugs in a few places, on the control valve and maybe the pump, maybe access for gauge?. Will try to get pics.
The highest temp reading was the pump itself, not the tank. The control valve and ram were at 125*, the pump 175*, didn't think to measure the fluid in the tank.
Thanks for the input so far folks!
Think I may try to make a tank out of a used refrigerant tank for automotive A/C we often throw away. Money is tight after just buying this splitter!!
125 F tank is not bad (if that is tank temp also. Check that first.)
If the issues was tank size only, not dissipating enough heat, the entire system would heat up evenly. The control valve and relief valve may be hotter, and the pump slightly hotter, but only maybe 10-20F above the tank average temperature.
Any local hot spot indicates fluid bypassing under pressure and causing heat.
If pump is significantly hotter, it may be losing efficiency and leaking internally, or the unloading valve may be acting up.
Run it at high engine speed, no splitting a while and see if the pump cools down a lot. Meaning, under almost no pressure, there is very little leakage/heat in the pump.
Without a flow meter is it hard to measure a two stage pump, but basically you have to compare the unloaded speed with the speed when on load, but before it shifts into low speed. The difference is leakage. More than about 15% leakage (85% efficiency) indicates worn pump.
K
If the issues was tank size only, not dissipating enough heat, the entire system would heat up evenly. The control valve and relief valve may be hotter, and the pump slightly hotter, but only maybe 10-20F above the tank average temperature.
Any local hot spot indicates fluid bypassing under pressure and causing heat.
If pump is significantly hotter, it may be losing efficiency and leaking internally, or the unloading valve may be acting up.
Run it at high engine speed, no splitting a while and see if the pump cools down a lot. Meaning, under almost no pressure, there is very little leakage/heat in the pump.
Without a flow meter is it hard to measure a two stage pump, but basically you have to compare the unloaded speed with the speed when on load, but before it shifts into low speed. The difference is leakage. More than about 15% leakage (85% efficiency) indicates worn pump.
K
wkpoor
Addicted to ArboristSite
Actually a 60HP PTO diesel. But it loafs at the job. I run it at 1500RPM and it sounds like its running at fast idle. The pump never loads the motor at all even when I'm on the relief valve. 21GPM and 2200PSI.
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