Pulling Directions on Fall

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Corey, that's not only funny but factual in a sort of way. This artist punched me in the side of the head after I told him he wouldn't say sh!t if he had a mouthful when he called me a lier repeatedly when I said I rode the rods, (hopped freight trains).
Anyway, this guy wrote a good recording of a popular Australian song. There's more to the story, but I'll tell the rest of the story later. I'm just fetching the song, so I'll be right back with it as a link.
So anyway, even though I can feel everyones love, please don't be hating the singer who socked me in the head!
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

Here's the cool tune.
John

 

[fpyontek]

Reading this thread is like listening to a truck driver, a SUV driver and a sports car driver each argue why his vehicle is better than the other two. It makes for lively debate, but it is useless as nothing can or will be settled.
For arborists, if the tree can be dropped safely we will drop them. We can't just drop trees for many reasons, some examples are:
If we break limbs in surrounding trees its not just a matter of removing the broken limbs, we've damaged the customer's trees.
Limited space with which to work in,necessitating that The tree must come down in sections.
The tree is surrounded by immovable structures, driveways, patio's, decks and even the building which was built around it. ( A restaurant in Morristown, NJ).
Probably the most compelling reason is that no matter how good you are or how good you think you are, the law of averages will catch up with you. Eventually some unforeseen factor will cause your drop to miss the mark; a sudden gust of wind or decay, for example. For the sake of your reputation and your insurance you can't take that chance.

Some people are touting that falling a tree can be explained using elementary physics. It can't and is misleading to the inexperienced. Simple mechanics deals with idealized situations and rigid bodies where the center of gravity can be easily determined.
Trees are not rigid bodies. They exist in a dynamic state where factors such as the wind is continually changing the vectors of force applied. Structural failure of the tree is always a possibility. Unknown amounts of force are applied through the ropes used. Furthermore the dynamic properties of these ropes are not fully understood by many of those who use them.

This business is just too dangerous to be explained in simplistic terms and there is no substitute for experience. Read through "Arboricultural Injuries and Fatalities" there's a lot to be learned from other people's mistakes.

Fred.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

In some ways i can see your point about the physics, but in general feel that trees are my greatest lessons in these things. i think the physics should back up the experience, and show the maximizing tweaks available easily amongst the choices to the technician. Every lil'bit i can squeeze out here helps etc.; so i polish system to that point. Then limit the string of stacked multipliers against me; while maximizing the multipliers on my side.

Everything is not to a singular force, but a dynamic relationship of forces to each other, wind and the shape of the tree's ability to be affected by such wind et al.

Furthermore i still check every hinge of rigging, bucking or felling; & feedback the info of the Hinge Forensics to self, and decypher where i thought CG was, and where it actually was, cut alignment, power of adjsutmeant taken etc.

 

[rbtree]

Hey Eric, here's another try at the videos of the big fir.

 

[Ekka]

That's correct Eric. Generally a leaner like that is very intertwined with the host tree due to wind and time. Thus the keeper will most likely break off the lener at it's weakest point. If not it will snap off due to how far it must fall.
Regardless, It's a cut and run affair, but I'll be hidding somewhere behind the tree on the right when it all comes down.
It's nothing new though, just another day in the life of a woodrat. I actually flipped the pic 90 degrees on it would fit better here.
John

That is one possibility but here's another. What about cutting the leaner first, try to fell it out, see if it goes .... it might roll out. Cut a real narrow notch so that if it doesn't go ... it will go once the keeper is felled and break off it's hinge first. Make it a really thin hinge too.

Then fell the keeper. That way the butt (stump end) of the leaning split guy can be dragged along for the fall and break less branches off the keeper and possibly reduce the probability of "throw back" (thats debri forward of the cut getting propelled back at you due to the pulling effect of the leaner still being anchored). Of course you'll have to exit to the right and behind the second keeper.

I'd suggest you have an observer with you with an adequate warning system in place to alert you of any hazard whilst cutting the notch and back cut of your prize.

In either case of felling, will you be cutting thru the hingewood of your keeper on this one?

 

[Thor's Hammer]

John, would you have the skidder with you? Usually, I would put a cable on the hanger, cut it off its stump, then winch it out butt first. IF you had the skidder with you, that is.

 

[CoreyTMorine]

That leaner looks like trouble to me. I'de be more worried about cutting it out of the Rock Maple, than running away after initiating the big sugar to fall. Maybe it would roll out, probably not, and if it didn't it might do any number of wacky things; it could roll a little left and push backwards, causing that compression fracture to hinge outward and then down, somewhere??? fast. or maybe the comp fracture twists inward as the top slides down, the comp fracture might end up by the base of the sugar, with the dead top now vertical and unattatched, it would probably fall back towards its own stump in an attempp to swat the faller. and if the fracture isn't weak enough to bend it might just hang there, problem with that is when you cut the money maple the leaner may become dislodged and fall faster than you can run, or it might fall hard enough to throw a dead branch which will given murphy's laws smack the faller right in the head, either one. Where as if you havn't cut its base off, and it becomes dislodged, it will probably fall somewhat slower.

By leaving it up there you minimize the bad options (things will happen with more energy and be erratic) and maximise the better options (the event will have less energy and there will be fewer possible end results). Also its quicker to leave it up there, and less time spent in the danger zone ussually equates to less exposure.

Its interesting that your first reaction, to fall the money tree with the leaner intact, was the most efficient and safest. Pretty good illustration of why second guessing ourselves is dangerous.

"Hesitate and Die." Mike Molineux (Mike and i went through "a" school in great lakes together, he lives up by John somewhere.)

Anyway, Gypo living through crap like that on a regular basis, has probably developed a pretty strong survival instinct. Maybe there is something here worth paying attention to. Sometimes it seems that the hard core "safety via procedure and PPE" oriented folks often get flustered when anyone talks about "instinct" being a factor. But the little voices in my head have kept me out of a fair ammount of trouble, and gaurdian angels have also helped. Maybe because i follow a "procedure", but sometimes i wonder if it may be something else. As for PPE, my hard hat mostly prevents the minor dents and dings, it may have saved my life once, i guess thats enough reson to where one, chaps to.

John, how come you keep living through situations like that one?

 

[Gypo Logger]

Because the two Maples are very valuable, 1000- 3000$ each, I can take my time to savour and relish the fun of falling trees of this size and value.
Trying to sever the leaner at the stump could complicate the situation if the leaner chooses to fall in several pieces and therefore several directions.
One falling rules states, "trees that are tied together should fall together", however in this case simply cutting the host tree and running will be my choice.
Using a skidder to pull the leaner down could work but it's 24" at the stump and could agrivate an otherwise routine situation.
I won't have time to hang around and cut off all the holdingwood once it is conmitted to it's fall, so I will plunge the heart out instead and make sure I have the backcut at least 3-4" above the undercut.
If I find a situation particularly unnerving, I will park the skidder close to me while making the cuts to break the fall of any debris.
Corey, even though there is danger, it's a whole lot of fun and I never get tired of it.
You are sure right about the instinct part. I have to go back to cruise those trees again to present a quote, so I will take better pictures of the trees.
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

Here's a better picture of the Maple with the broken crown. Although it looks like a good tree it is nothing but firewood. I suspect it got hit by lightning so it should be well seasoned.
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

Here's a really nice Maple, it's about 36" DBH. These are the tallest Maples I have seen in awhile. They are at least 110' with 40' of merchantable length. The average Maple is about 90' in the forest.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Here's the best tree in the whole bush. But can't truly tell till it's down on the ground and cut to length.
John

 

[Ekka]

So Gypo, do you mill them up for timber do you?


That crappy tree, I'd go with the fell on the keeper and make a dash for cover, then if that buggers left standing deal with it if not ... no worries.

So, let us know what the go is with the timber, around this place most is junk.

 

[a_lopa]

i think ekkas advice on having a spotter is spot on to coach you thru the felling

haha

 

[Gypo Logger]

Well I'm glad you guys agreed with me on the felling procedure.
Spydie would still be drawing his twelve page diagram. lol
Ekka, I don't get involved with the lumber end of things save for the odd log I have the mill saw into boards so I can get more and more bookshelves made to house my book collections. Like this Butternut cabinette.
John

 

[pantheraba]

so I can get more and more bookshelves made to house my book collections. Like this Butternut cabinette.

You DO know how to set up a picture...