Question about Woods Porting?

[pwoller]

ha ha, i guess I'm stupid then. WTF do I know.


How the hell can a shop make any money charging out $30 per hour

You said it.

Not my problem how they make money.

This is the last time I'm saying it. Porting aint rocket science. Maybe look for a shop thats been around for 40 years, I'm sure that they do good work or they'd been shut down. If you think I got ripped off when I paid 120 bucks for a woods port then come take a look. When I was looking for someone to port I thought that the internet porters at 300 bucks was rediculous.

 

[Mastermind]

ha ha, i guess I'm stupid then. WTF do I know.


How the hell can a shop make any money charging out $30 per hour

I work in a small shop at my house, I have no employees, and not much in the way of overhead. I still try to make enough to pay my light bill. If I did a saw for 150.00 (and I've done several for that price) it takes me at least 8 hrs. Like Parrisw said, I do more than just pull the jug and start cutting. Hell, I even clean the saw because I hate working on nasty saws. I also can't see a shop charging such a small amount for port work. Sometimes after the saw is ported the carb will not compensate without pulling the limiting caps, adjusting the carb and replacing them, that takes time, testing takes time. Adding an extra port to the muffler and making it look good takes time as well.

I guess I'll add myself to the dumbass list too!

 

[chopperfreak2k1]

maybe it's a backwoods, mom and pop kinda place and the only way to drum up business is to do it cheap? i know of a dirt bike shop around here that is very cheap but still does good work. i'm just sayin that it is possible, and the guy did offer to let us check out his saw at a gtg. usually cheap= crap i agree, but it doesn't mean it's ALWAYS crap, right?

 

[Mastermind]

maybe it's a backwoods, mom and pop kinda place and the only way to drum up business is to do it cheap? i know of a dirt bike shop around here that is very cheap but still does good work. i'm just sayin that it is possible, and the guy did offer to let us check out his saw at a gtg. usually cheap= crap i agree, but it doesn't mean it's ALWAYS crap, right?

I ain't saying it ain't true. I'm saying a high level of detail would be hard to achieve if a person did it in only three hours.

 

[chopperfreak2k1]

i'm not arguing that or anything else for that matter. i don't know crap about porting, YET. i have the highest respect for some of you guys on here, you included, i just meant it's possible is all.

 

[chopperfreak2k1]

oh now i get it, he said they worked on it for 3 hours and you guys put significantly more time into it. gotcha!

 

[parrisw]

For the record, I never said he didn't get a port job for $90. I said you can't get much for that. And that's the truth!!

 

[chopperfreak2k1]

yeah, yeah you probably made him cry ya big meanie!

for the record, if i was him, i would not have said my $90 port job saw would cut circles around you guys!!!

 

[Banshee]

I haven't posted in awhile. But I had to step in here. I'm the one who recommended the shop in question to Pwoller.
I've recommended the shop to several people on here and else where. I have yet to see a disppointed person I've sent there.

They are a very good shop and I'd take all my stuff there. Alot of you guys on here have ran my saws and everyone agrees it's well worth the money I spent to have them ported.

Yeah there's alot faster saws here. But my saws are not built to win races they are built to give you gains over stock. They will honor the warrenty out of they own pocket for these saws if you buy it there.

They don't just do mods. I had an 066 I brought from a Stihl dealer in town. He told me He didn't have time to work on it and all he could tell from the little time he did worked on it that it may have an air leak and would run over 300 dollars to fix, so the orginal owner just traded it in.

I brought the saw from the Stihl dealer for 100 dollars and brought it to D and D. D and D found a blow cylinder gasket. They replaced it, put new rings on it (they said it didn't need it but since they already had it apart and had after market rings for 6 bucks each. I figure what the heck), They cleaned the cylinder, put a new diaphiam in the carb, replaced the clutch springs, put a new rope and handle on it for me. They also muffler modded and advanced the time for me. They charged me 75 dollars.

The saw still runs great to this day. They do all the work right in front of you as you wait. So there's no question they are doing what they are charging you for.

There's also a another saw shop down the road from them that do the same work for 150 dollars. They are also a very good saw shop. In fact one of the members here happens to work at this shop and his saws will run with the best of them.

Around here the shops that do the work just don't charge alot for it, but they more than make up for it with volume. Not just in mod work, but in sales volume.

 

[pwoller]

For the record, I never said he didn't get a port job for $90. I said you can't get much for that. And that's the truth!!

I dont know how to explain this to you guys. They spent at least 3 hours going through my saw. Replacing this and that. Then porting, muff modding and advancing the timing. This is a saw shop has been around longer then I've been alive. I hardly think they do subpar work and are still around. Maybe since they know how to mod husky saws and have been doing it so long it doesnt take them as long as the internet porters then they can do it faster. Again if you want to see their work then I'll bring my saw to a gtg and you can investigate.

The saws they have ported for me run great. I'm just trying to give the original poster an option that is more reasonable then some of the guys on here. I'm not saying they do better work but they do great work for way less.

 

[AUSSIE1]

Sure this crowd can do quality work and probably have low rates.

I did a friends 394 recently and all I did was opened the exhaust, left out the base gasket and made a square hole in the muffler for for the future fitment of a shroud. Now this can be done for say a hundred odd bucks.

He is so happy he reckons it is now a different saw and flies through the wood.

Now if this is in a business scenario, there is nothing wrong with this, but it has to be realized this is not what you would be considered to the level of a $250 -$300 port job where exhaust, inlet, upper and lower transfers and durations are done.

Pwoller and Banshee I think people aren't knocking this D & D, just saying that you don't get the "works" for the money.

 

[pwoller]

Sure this crowd can do quality work and probably have low rates.

I did a friends 394 recently and all I did was opened the exhaust, left out the base gasket and made a square hole in the muffler for for the future fitment of a shroud. Now this can be done for say a hundred odd bucks.

He is so happy he reckons it is now a different saw and flies through the wood.

Now if this is in a business scenario, there is nothing wrong with this, but it has to be realized this is not what you would be considered to the level of a $250 -$300 port job where exhaust, inlet, upper and lower transfers and durations are done.

Pwoller and Banshee I think people aren't knocking this D & D, just saying that you don't get the "works" for the money.

I could care less if they use D and D. But its an option.

 

[AUSSIE1]

I could care less if they use D and D. But its an option.

I don't think you get what we are trying to say to you.

It's not about whether you care less or not!

 

[chopperfreak2k1]

yeah whats being said to you is some of these guys spend 8 to 12+ hours on a proper port job. so we THINK your not getting the "full monty" so to speak. is that about right AUSSIE1?

 

[Banshee]

I just want to add, before I go to bed. That this shop has been around for 40 some years. They don't advertist. They only use word of mouth.
If you go there on a rainy day, when all the loggers aren't cutting, it's nothing to have to wait for hours to get your saws worked on. And that is with 4 guys working on saws.
They don't like you to leave your saws, if you do it will be months if not a year before you see it again. They only work on saws that are left in their spare time.
So I never go there unless I have a half day or more to spare.

 

[chopperfreak2k1]

it sounds like a really cool shop, honest it does. i'd love to check it out if it weren't so far away. but you know as with most things if it's real cheap there is usually a reason. i'm not saying they don't do good work, i'm saying the price makes me leary.

 

[Banshee]

yeah whats being said to you is some of these guys spend 8 to 12+ hours on a proper port job. so we THINK your not getting the "full monty" so to speak. is that about right AUSSIE1?

I've seen guys spend months on porting. It really depends on what you want with your saw.
Are you wanting to cut cookies in record time and be on the edge of over heating at the end of the cut or are you wanting a work saw with more power than stock that can cut all day.

It's really not a fair comparison. I've ran my saws against some of the guys on here and had my azz handed to me. But some of their saws were on the edge of a full melt down. Where as mind could keep on cutting it need be.

 

[chopperfreak2k1]

i see what your sayin and it makes sense. maybe one of you guys could make it to a GTG and show off a D&D saw. then we would know what you know, ya know?

 

[timberwolf]

I've seen guys spend months on porting. It really depends on what you want with your saw.
Are you wanting to cut cookies in record time and be on the edge of over heating at the end of the cut or are you wanting a work saw with more power than stock that can cut all day.

True but I think there is a catch.

A tail gate port job no doubt can give some gains over a stock saw. But A good mild port job can accomplish the same thing with fewer down side effects.

Example, one saw ported by opening the muffler, raising the exhaust 1.5mm and advancing the timing 3 degrees to make up for the lost compression. Quite realistic to expect it might cut an 8x8 30% quicker. The second saw has no significant changes to port timing, exhaust is opened and all gains are made by improving port shapes and flows along with tightening the squish a smidge. Again cutting an 8x8 30% faster would be a reasonable expectation. The difference though will be seen in how the saws pulls with a long bar, how it starts on a cold morning or hot afternoon, how it idles, throttle response, how long it lasts and how much fuel it burns for work done. Without doubt the saw ported to improve flow will be the overall winner, no doubt it will take more time and effort to port a saw like that.

IMHO watch claims of advancing the timing, needing to mess with ignition timing to get a ported work saw to run well is a red flag.

 

[Shrug]

WOW, we have quite the little discussion going on now don't we. With all that has been said it is hard for a new guy like myself to keep it all straight and actually try to absorb the information.

I started this post with the hopes of gaining the input necessary to learn what needed to be done to my 390 to turn it into one bad mother of a work saw. I want to get the most out of it that I can while still keeping it reliable and able to pull the 36" bar I will be running on it and cut wood all day long. Obviously being new to this sort of thing I don't plan on doing this kind of job myself to my only saw, however I have got many suggestions as to where I could get the work done and I greatly appreciate each one of them. You can never have to many options in my opinion.

Needless to say, you guys have been very helpful so far and I really appreciate all the input you guys have offered up. This is a fantastic internet board in my opinion and everyone seems much more willing to lend a helping hand than on many other internet communities that I have experienced in the past.

Now let the discussion continue, we got a good one going here!