Questions About Buying & Burning Firewood

[CTYank]

"Seasoned" has so many, wildly differing, legal definitions that the word is meaningless.

"Air dry" points you toward the target, but doesn't help much. "MC <= 15% dry-basis" tells a story.

Anybody who says there is an "optimum moisture content" for fuel-wood probably also deals in snake-oil. Unless he's talking zero percent. In an ongoing experiment, I've found that wood CANNOT be too dry. Ever.

Wood vendors simply cannot afford what it takes to get wood what I'd call dry. They toss it in a pile on the ground and wait for calls from suckers. Per others also, buy it as green unsplit, and add the value yourself, letting it sit in the sun and summer breeze for a couple of years. Yet another high hurdle for wood-sellers.

Of course, even if their wood was acceptably dry, you can be assured they'll short you on volume, often big-time. If you're gonna be buying, figure out how to measure volume (as compactly stacked) on the truck before you let them unload.

Top (not side) covering keeps drying moving forward. Without saying, stack it off the ground, facing south.

Great physical therapy- enjoy.

 

[dale1948]

I sell wood, and every stick I sell is fully dry, but I am the exception in my area.

If you want dry wood, and also enjoy getting a discount here are some ideas.

Tell your supplier you want green wood, and store it for next year. If I do not have to unload, stack, wait a year, reload, deliver, and stack I am willing to give discounts. Of course the guys have been doing that to you already, you just have not been getting the discount.

If you want an extra discount, split the rounds yourself.

I have been cutting trees for customers on their land with my tools. They pay me an hourly rate and I process their wood for them, all of this is for next year. You have to trust the people who work on your land, since wood cutting is dangerous.

Be firm on the phone that if you do not like the looks of the load, you will refuse, and really follow through with it. You don't have to be a jerk, but they are trying to cheat you by selling you wet wood; so don't be a victim.

This time of year, the legitimate sellers are running out of last years wood, I ran out about 2 weeks ago, and no matter how much I would like to sell more, I can not make it dry. So if you are getting a load that is truly dry, expect to pay more because of scarcity.

You will probably just have to get by for this year, with pallets, cutoffs and such. But you really have it in your power to prepare for next year, and it is a race to be ready for next year. I want to have all of my wood for sale split and stacked by late feb early march. Any later and you are risking it not being ready. It depends on your climate, farther north and you have to be prepared earlier.

I sell to people who prepare ahead of time, and people who wait until they need it before ordering, and the people who wait are lucky the called me, since they could just as easily be getting junk.

You said you just got the place and there is not much you can do about that, but with planning, this will be the last winter you have to deal with it.

Dan

Good advice, Dan. Thanks

 

[dale1948]

I have an off topic question.

I posted a question on the "Off the Topic Forum" and it was moved. I clicked on my link and it asked for my password. I tried my password several times and it won't work...it says "incorrect password."

My question was about the best places to buy firing black powder cap and ball revolvers. Maybe that wasn't a good topic? I'm new here and don't want to mess up this early.

 

[Steve NW WI]

I have an off topic question.

I posted a question on the "Off the Topic Forum" and it was moved. I clicked on my link and it asked for my password. I tried my password several times and it won't work...it says "incorrect password."

My question was about the best places to buy firing black powder cap and ball revolvers. Maybe that wasn't a good topic? I'm new here and don't want to mess up this early.

PM sent. It got moved to the new Guns and Ammo section, which requires a password to get in, kind of like the political forum.

 

[flyboy553]

"Seasoned" has so many, wildly differing, legal definitions that the word is meaningless.

"Air dry" points you toward the target, but doesn't help much. "MC <= 15% dry-basis" tells a story.

Anybody who says there is an "optimum moisture content" for fuel-wood probably also deals in snake-oil. Unless he's talking zero percent. In an ongoing experiment, I've found that wood CANNOT be too dry. Ever.

Wood vendors simply cannot afford what it takes to get wood what I'd call dry. They toss it in a pile on the ground and wait for calls from suckers. Per others also, buy it as green unsplit, and add the value yourself, letting it sit in the sun and summer breeze for a couple of years. Yet another high hurdle for wood-sellers.

Of course, even if their wood was acceptably dry, you can be assured they'll short you on volume, often big-time. If you're gonna be buying, figure out how to measure volume (as compactly stacked) on the truck before you let them unload.

Top (not side) covering keeps drying moving forward. Without saying, stack it off the ground, facing south.

Great physical therapy- enjoy.

Lots and lots of issues with this post.
1. There absolutely IS an optimum moisture content. EPA stoves are designed to work with wood that is 20%MC +/- 2%, which is 18-22%. Anything above or below those numbers and it will have a hard time with the burn.
2.Firewood that is too dry will flash burn or burn out of control. And it will burn so fast that most of the heat value will be lost.
2a. About the lowest MC you can achieve is 14%. Even kiln dried is at the best 8% when removed from the kiln but will rise to the existing Humidity level in your area in no time.
3.Even though I used the words optimum MC , I do not now or have I ever dealt in snake oil.
4. I do not pile my wood on the ground; it is stacked on pallets in 24 ft long, 50 inches high, and 16"wide stacks - 1+ cord per row. Hard to short someone that way, isn't it.
5. Firewood does NOT need 2 years to dry. Cut at 16 inches, red oak only needs about 6 months to be in the "optimum MC" range. ( hehheh had to use it again!)

I have been selling firewood for over 30 years. I would hesitate to call ANY of my customers suckers. I also do not care to be insulted, especially by someone who has not done their research on firewood and moisture content.
Points 1,2,2a and 5 can be researched quite easily. I suggest you do that prior to blasting anyone on this site. Points 3 and 4 are in regards to my operation. You can research that too by coming on out and taking a look at how I do things. Guaranteed you will leave with your hat in your hand. And if you find any snake oil, it will be because you brought it with you.

Ted

 

[Fifelaker]

Where do you live in the "Great white north" If you are close enough I have some contacts.

 

[CTYank]

Lots and lots of issues with this post.
1. There absolutely IS an optimum moisture content. EPA stoves are designed to work with wood that is 20%MC +/- 2%, which is 18-22%. Anything above or below those numbers and it will have a hard time with the burn.
2.Firewood that is too dry will flash burn or burn out of control. And it will burn so fast that most of the heat value will be lost.
2a. About the lowest MC you can achieve is 14%. Even kiln dried is at the best 8% when removed from the kiln but will rise to the existing Humidity level in your area in no time.
3.Even though I used the words optimum MC , I do not now or have I ever dealt in snake oil.
4. I do not pile my wood on the ground; it is stacked on pallets in 24 ft long, 50 inches high, and 16"wide stacks - 1+ cord per row. Hard to short someone that way, isn't it.
5. Firewood does NOT need 2 years to dry. Cut at 16 inches, red oak only needs about 6 months to be in the "optimum MC" range. ( hehheh had to use it again!)

I have been selling firewood for over 30 years. I would hesitate to call ANY of my customers suckers. I also do not care to be insulted, especially by someone who has not done their research on firewood and moisture content.
Points 1,2,2a and 5 can be researched quite easily. I suggest you do that prior to blasting anyone on this site. Points 3 and 4 are in regards to my operation. You can research that too by coming on out and taking a look at how I do things. Guaranteed you will leave with your hat in your hand. And if you find any snake oil, it will be because you brought it with you.

Ted

Ted, you are fully entitled to your opinion. Even if you are factually, objectively WRONG. First, holster that pistol. (Cool it.)

I did not imply or state that your customers were or are suckers. You said that. My hope is that you are one of the (very few IMHO) reputable vendors of firewood. Can't see that from here. I just know the stories I was told back when, like "You mean you're bringing ANOTHER truckload!" (Many folks have been ripped off. Doesn't mean you had ANYTHING to do with it. Relax. It's fact.)

"Optimum" means "best." Meaning, none is better. Not "kinda ready" or "good enough" but the best. Don't BS yourself there. Hehehe yourself- how childish!

I know you don't like to hear this, but you're seriously FOS about wood MC. And obviously can't conduct an objective discussion on that. You'd do well to research oak processing- extract head there. TTFN

 

[cantoo]

CTY,do you have a kiln for your firewood or do you just store it covered for years? My wood is dried outside for 2 years and it sure seems like it goes up in moisture when I bring it into my house. I tested a bunch a couple of years ago and it was around 18% before it went into the basement. It's just dropped off my conveyor onto skids in the open, no cover and not hand stacked. I put it in my basement when it's been drier than heck for a few weeks, it is hand stacked in my basement. I checked it a few weeks later and it was around 20%. How do you get wood towards zero % moisture and how do you keep it there? I have a supply of kiln dried spruce that I use for kindling, 8% maybe? I sure wouldn't want to burn 8% hardwood, I think my stove would melt.
FYI, these pictures are from a UK firewood site. Little high I think.
View attachment 273671View attachment 273672View attachment 273673

 

[stihly dan]

Never seen red oak seasoned after 6 mo, unless it was standing dead. still not so much.

 

[flyboy553]

I cut and split some blow down red oak last Feb and March. By September it was 20% MC. I normally cut standing dead, only cut the blow downs as they come up.

You can go to any university study on seasoning red oak and you will see. In fact, they say that if it is cut at 12 inches long, it will be seasoned to ideal(18-22%) MC in 3 months. 16" six months, 24 inches will take 9 months and 4 feet closer to 18 months.

I don't know about 12 inches, I never cut that short, but I know that for over 30 years of exclusively selling red oak, that 6 months is the norm. The standing dead will actually season faster than 6 months. My experience is all in Minnesota. Apparently we have better conditions here than out east. Don't know, never tried to season anything out east. :msp_wink:



Ted

 

[dale1948]

PM sent. It got moved to the new Guns and Ammo section, which requires a password to get in, kind of like the political forum.

Thanks a lot!

 

[jrider]

Ted, you are fully entitled to your opinion. Even if you are factually, objectively WRONG. First, holster that pistol. (Cool it.)

I did not imply or state that your customers were or are suckers. You said that. My hope is that you are one of the (very few IMHO) reputable vendors of firewood. Can't see that from here. I just know the stories I was told back when, like "You mean you're bringing ANOTHER truckload!" (Many folks have been ripped off. Doesn't mean you had ANYTHING to do with it. Relax. It's fact.)

"Optimum" means "best." Meaning, none is better. Not "kinda ready" or "good enough" but the best. Don't BS yourself there. Hehehe yourself- how childish!

I know you don't like to hear this, but you're seriously FOS about wood MC. And obviously can't conduct an objective discussion on that. You'd do well to research oak processing- extract head there. TTFN

You did a nice job of calling every wood dealer in here a thief, crook, and liar. I have been selling wood for 17 years now and have never sold anyone green wood or shorted them on the amount. I sell a lot of oak and find that in most years - weather wise- 6-8 months is more than adequate for drying. The wood is stored in a field where if the sun is out, it's on the wood pile, and the wind is always on it fully as well. It also makes a difference as to which way the piles run. I have found that piles running almost due east/west don't dry nearly as well as piles that run north/south.
I don't need a moisture meter to tell if the wood is dry enough, I just listen to my customers tell me I have some of the best burning wood they have ever bought year in and year out.