Questions about clutches, also cross-ref question

[Pudsy]

Id actually be guessing it's a clone of a Redmax G621avs. Link to one that wad for sale a while ago.
https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/redmax-g621avs.338676/

Problem with that is that the left side of the Coocheer saw (metal plate, covers, position of hi/lo screws etc) really looks more like a continuation of the G455 chassis more than the G621. That's just from looking at pictures however - I don't have a "62cc" clone here to check, just 5200 or 5600 or so and those certainly are just the old 455/500 chassis.

 

[Pudsy]

Cooked up a quick comparisson ...

 

[skeer007]

with the exception of the inboard clutch, looks very similar.

 

[Pudsy]

with the exception of the inboard clutch

There is that too
The images on Amazon look like the (outboard) clutch is also still same as for the 455/500, so my guess is that it would be a safer bet to get the parts for that model, but as stated before ... I can't guarantee everything wil fit.

 

[skeer007]

Well to be honest the search for a 'better' clutch has definitely gone deeper than I expected. I had no idea these were clones of clones.. of clones sometimes, lol. I think I'll just grab an OEM Zenoah since it's the same overall design, but def appears to be better made. I was thinking that since this one broke on me that maybe now was the time to upgrade to something like the Husq, or Stihl looking clutches. Those look tough! I heartedly appreciate all of the info! I def know what to look for now in what should be a better replacement for sure.

 

[sean donato]

Go and buy a new echo 590 timber wolf. Don't bother with the redmax as they are owned by husqvarna now. Getting an older Redmax/zenoah you'll be paying through the teeth.

 

[sean donato]

There is that too
The images on Amazon look like the (outboard) clutch is also still same as for the 455/500, so my guess is that it would be a safer bet to get the parts for that model, but as stated before ... I can't guarantee everything wil fit.

Yeah it's hard to tell exactly what they cloned off of. They started with the 30-40cc. Then went up into other models, beans it's a direct cc replacement I'd say its safe to assume they should share common parts. There were also a few versions of the zen/redmax 60-62cc saws. From what i know of them, the 60cc wasnt a popular size for zenoah.
I have a gz4000 at home. It's a decent saw, but one of the last zen designs from what I can tell. Most the new saws are husqy design.

 

[Pudsy]

Getting an older Redmax/zenoah you'll be paying through the teeth.

Some five or six years ago I paid 50€ for my first Zenoah G455 (used, but good as new). One of the best tool "investments" I ever made. Got another one for I think it was 30€ a few months back, just because - couldn't really skip it for that price.

In general I'd say you'd usually be better off with a good 2nd hand "professional" saw than with any of the chinese made box store crap sold new. The chinese saws sell for around 60-120€ new nowadays, but with that budget I'd always consider shopping around for a good 2nd hand older saw. Just don't be in a hurry and "in need" of a saw pronto, so you can lean back and let an offer slide if it's too rich for your taste.

That said, I can pick up an excellent, fully functional older (pre 2000) 40-60cc pro grade Dolmar, Husqvarna, Poulan, Echo, McCulloch, Alpina, Oleo-Mac, Homelite or sometimes even Stihl for way under 100-120€ any day of the week. It's just that if I want to spend 25-50€ on it instead I'll have to shop around more patiently.

Some people do tend to ask crazy prices, especially for the likes of Stihl and Husqvarna. Just let them sit on it or sell it to someone else.

Recent (< 1 year) examples that were good deals imho would have been an Echo CS5100 (60€), Dolmar 120 (40€), Husqvarna 61 (40€), Husqvarna 154SG (35€), Oleo-Mac 350AF (35€), Olympyk 350AF (25€), Oleo-Mac 945AF (30€), Poulan 3000 (35€), Poulan 2000 (25€), Alpina Prof-41 (25€) ... etc. All running on arrival. I did pamper a few of them just to make sure, but for the 120$ that the chinese 62cc would set me back I could also have a 3-saw plan of a running Poulan or Alpina 30-40cc tophandle, a Zenoah/Husqvarna/Oleo-Mac/Poulan 45-50cc class saw and a Dolmar/Husqvarna 60cc class saw all running well and rendering me with a choice of saw for the job and ample back-up. No-brainer IMHO.

 

[sean donato]

Some five or six years ago I paid 50€ for my first Zenoah G455 (used, but good as new). One of the best tool "investments" I ever made. Got another one for I think it was 30€ a few months back, just because - couldn't really skip it for that price.

In general I'd say you'd usually be better off with a good 2nd hand "professional" saw than with any of the chinese made box store crap sold new. The chinese saws sell for around 60-120€ new nowadays, but with that budget I'd always consider shopping around for a good 2nd hand older saw. Just don't be in a hurry and "in need" of a saw pronto, so you can lean back and let an offer slide if it's too rich for your taste.

That said, I can pick up an excellent, fully functional older (pre 2000) 40-60cc pro grade Dolmar, Husqvarna, Poulan, Echo, McCulloch, Alpina, Oleo-Mac, Homelite or sometimes even Stihl for way under 100-120€ any day of the week. It's just that if I want to spend 25-50€ on it instead I'll have to shop around more patiently.

Some people do tend to ask crazy prices, especially for the likes of Stihl and Husqvarna. Just let them sit on it or sell it to someone else.

Recent (< 1 year) examples that were good deals imho would have been an Echo CS5100 (60€), Dolmar 120 (40€), Husqvarna 61 (40€), Husqvarna 154SG (35€), Oleo-Mac 350AF (35€), Olympyk 350AF (25€), Oleo-Mac 945AF (30€), Poulan 3000 (35€), Poulan 2000 (25€), Alpina Prof-41 (25€) ... etc. All running on arrival. I did pamper a few of them just to make sure, but for the 120$ that the chinese 62cc would set me back I could also have a 3-saw plan of a running Poulan or Alpina 30-40cc tophandle, a Zenoah/Husqvarna/Oleo-Mac/Poulan 45-50cc class saw and a Dolmar/Husqvarna 60cc class saw all running well and rendering me with a choice of saw for the job and ample back-up. No-brainer IMHO.

Sounds like you get better deals then we do state side. The gems are out there, but they are far and few in between. Heck people want $150.00 for a worn oit wold thing and 3/4 new price for something decent.

 

[Pudsy]

Well, prices are all over the place here too. I got an Alpina Prof-41 the other day for 25€, but currently one is on offer for 135€. That's not going to happen
Older 45-50cc Dolmars (111, 112, 113, 115 etc) are often offered for around 150-200€ or even more, but I did get all of mine under 50€ (okay a few needed work, such as a carb set). Heck, a few years back I got a good as new, beautiful 120i for 50€ (lucky!) but also see those on offer for over 350€. So it pays to be patient and look regularly ...
That said, may well be that prices are different in the States. Far less people here depending on fire wood for heating, so most is on sale from people that have done "gardening" and now move to an appartement without garden, swapping over to battery power or "cleaning up" for other reasons. Got many good deals on saws that belonged to father (in law) that passed away and the kids (60+) would rather see it land in the hands of a collector than junk it. Situations like that.

 

[NSEric]

Buy a new clutch off amazon/ebay/aliexpress for a 45/52/58/62cc chinese saw.
The problem is the 62 is a bored/stroked 45cc saw, it's just a hopped up 45, not a real 60cc saw, other 60cc saws have bigger better everything.
I've had good luck with them but run 15 inch .325 bars/chains just like you would on a 45cc saw.
The 20 inch 3/8 bar/chain is too much for a saw this small, get a smaller bar/chain and it will last.

 

[Pudsy]

The problem is the 62 is a bored/stroked 45cc saw, it's just a hopped up 45, not a real 60cc saw, other 60cc saws have bigger better everything.

Yes, that's pretty much my take on the matter too

The Chinese guys started putting on bigger jugs (52cc at first), but imho didn't make any other major changes, so I'd be surprised if the clutch would have changed much. Of course, that may be the problem right there: Same clutch from a 45cc now running 62cc?
But more likely the problem is the inferior materials used.

I've had good luck with them but run 15 inch .325 bars/chains just like you would on a 45cc saw.
The 20 inch 3/8 bar/chain is too much for a saw this small, get a smaller bar/chain and it will last.

That's probably some sound advice too. I'm sure the OEM Zenoah clutch would be stronger than the Chinese copies, but it may be hard/impossible to find or too expensive. Running a more modest bar and chain will certainly reduce the strain on everything in the saw. And keeping the chain sharp of course

 

[J D]

I'm still not convinced the clutch is an inferior part (compared to the rest of the saw). How were you removing the original one when it broke? If improper removal may have caused that failure then the only meaningful failure you have had is the spring. If it were mine I'd use the spring from the old clutch or any old donor saw to get it running & only worry about it if it fails again. It's likely the repaired "cheap" clutch will outlast many other parts of the saw & your time & money are better invested elsewhere

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

I'm still not convinced the clutch is an inferior part (compared to the rest of the saw). How were you removing the original one when it broke? If improper removal may have caused that failure then the only meaningful failure you have had is the spring. If it were mine I'd use the spring from the old clutch or any old donor saw to get it running & only worry about it if it fails again. It's likely the repaired "cheap" clutch will outlast many other parts of the saw & your time & money are better invested elsewhere

Do you mean to tell me after all these years a 3lb hammer and a cold chisel are not the correct tools?
Doesn't matter that it takes six blows with the hammer in righty tighty form before you remember they are left hand thread does it?

 

[J D]

Do you mean to tell me after all these years a 3lb hammer and a cold chisel are not the correct tools?
Doesn't matter that it takes six blows with the hammer in righty tighty form before you remember they are left hand thread does it?

Don't forget to stop the piston with a screw driver in the exhaust port first!
Wonder how long it will be before we start seeing posts referencing "Bob's method of clutch removal"

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

Don't forget to stop the piston with a screw driver in the exhaust port first!
Wonder how long it will be before we start seeing posts referencing "Bob's method of clutch removal"

I find, to get the clutch off those Warehouse red shed Chinese type saws, the best piston stop is molten lead poured through the spark plug hole and use your best steel bucking wedge and the back of an axe to remove the clutch- problem solved!
No need for an entirely new thread.

 

[NSEric]

On a more serious note I cut up an old socket and spin the clutch off with an impact, no piston stop required.
On the 45-62cc chinese saws you need a 3 prong/tab socket, use a 3/4 or bigger socket to make one.
I've had the clutch off mine a few times switching rim sprockets, sometimes I run 3/8lp on it, most of the time it's a 8 pin .325.


To the guys bashing these saws because they're chinese, go find a better working 150 dollar saw that has a new bar/chain and needs nothing done to it. I admit an old used pro saw is better but they cost twice as much in my area and are hard to find as people keep them until they're junk. That's why I have a chinese saw I cant get something that cuts as fast without spending twice as much as I have.
PS I added a 365 carb to mine and did a little porting, it's about as fast as any 50cc pro saw made possible faster, it freaking cuts. Out of the box they run good but are fairly slow.

 

[Pudsy]

I have like ten or so of the 45/52/58cc zenoah G455AVS clones by now. Picked most up for free or (way) under 25€, a single one 30€ due to a misunderstanding. About half of 'em just run, the others I haven't even tried yet. Had to swap parts on one broken oiler and one broken starter. Not too much problems, but just wrenching on them makes it clear that the materials/finish isn't on par with the original. I use them for lending out, or as give aways if I like the person.

Even 2nd hand they're a fair alternative for 2nd hand older "brand" saws. 10-20€ for a running saw is hard to beat. Sure, some people around here dare to ask 150€ for a used one too - way more than new, so I do still need to look around for low priced ones (10-20€), but generally there are more of these on offer than low priced (35-80€) pro saws. For the pro saws you have to search long and hard to find a decent working one for around 50€, most offers will start at 100-150€, but it can be done (here).

For occasional use these Chinese saws just do what they need to do, most of the time. Heck, get 2 or 3 for under 50€ total and have back-up.

That said, I just like working with the older better quality stuff and I can get those for less than a new Chinese saw, so no need to think about that long and hard.

 

[sean donato]

On a more serious note I cut up an old socket and spin the clutch off with an impact, no piston stop required.
On the 45-62cc chinese saws you need a 3 prong/tab socket, use a 3/4 or bigger socket to make one.
I've had the clutch off mine a few times switching rim sprockets, sometimes I run 3/8lp on it, most of the time it's a 8 pin .325.


To the guys bashing these saws because they're chinese, go find a better working 150 dollar saw that has a new bar/chain and needs nothing done to it. I admit an old used pro saw is better but they cost twice as much in my area and are hard to find as people keep them until they're junk. That's why I have a chinese saw I cant get something that cuts as fast without spending twice as much as I have.
PS I added a 365 carb to mine and did a little porting, it's about as fast as any 50cc pro saw made possible faster, it freaking cuts. Out of the box they run good but are fairly slow.

Wait what hypocrisy is this? Find a better saw for $150.00 thay doesn't need work? Then throw the carb that came with it in the trash and port it. Yep, that's just what I want to do to get it to run like something.