Questions about "Upgrading" my splitter

[SevenDeuce]

I have an old homebuilt splitter that I was able to aquire for 3 lawn mowings from a customer of mine.

I've since reworked the hydraulics and replaced the worn out engine with a 6HP.

It's a tad slow, but otherwise decent for locust and willow and maple, but can't pop an oak log with out a bit of massaging.

I'd like to upgrade the cylinder/engine/pump, but I can't right figure out how to determine the TON that will be gotten from the upgrades.

So, is there a way to figure out how much force I will be getting from a 5"x24" 3000psi cylinder, 16GPM Barnes pump and a 10-15HP engine?

I'd like to do it in stages because of cost, but am open to ideas.

I did search, but limited on time, so looking for a direct answer without fluff.

Thanks!

Abe:greenchainsaw:

 

[joecool85]

I have an old homebuilt splitter that I was able to aquire for 3 lawn mowings from a customer of mine.

I've since reworked the hydraulics and replaced the worn out engine with a 6HP.

It's a tad slow, but otherwise decent for locust and willow and maple, but can't pop an oak log with out a bit of massaging.

I'd like to upgrade the cylinder/engine/pump, but I can't right figure out how to determine the TON that will be gotten from the upgrades.

So, is there a way to figure out how much force I will be getting from a 5"x24" 3000psi cylinder, 16GPM Barnes pump and a 10-15HP engine?

I'd like to do it in stages because of cost, but am open to ideas.

I did search, but limited on time, so looking for a direct answer without fluff.

Thanks!

Abe:greenchainsaw:

Here you can figure out how many tons it will push: http://www.baumhydraulics.com/calculators/cyl_calc.htm

And here you can figure out how much hp it will take: http://www.permco.com/hydraulic_calculator/theohorse.asp?method=missing

5" bore cylinder @ 3000 PSI would push 29.5 tons

It would take 35hp to do this at 16gpm on a single stage pump, with a 2 stage pump it'll need an 8hp engine. That said, it'll be slow as all hell with a 16gpm pump and a 5x24 cylinder.

 

[Zodiac45]

If you've already replaced the engine with a 6hp, why not get a 4" cly and use an 11 gal pump? That's the ideal for a 6hp and should be plenty to split anything for home heating.

 

[kevin j]

the barnes 13 gpm pump has same small section displacement, so the same engine can run it. get a bit more speed in low pressure mode.

5 inch is a lot of force, can the rest of the structure take it?

If you have upgraded engine already, possibly upgrade pump and see how the exisitng cylinder works?

 

[boostnut]

what size cylinder are you currently running? I've never run across any oak that will stall mine (4" cylinder) operating at 2500 psi. You may have a simple problem with your current setup.

 

[user 19670]

the barnes 13 gpm pump has same small section displacement, so the same engine can run it. get a bit more speed in low pressure mode.

5 inch is a lot of force, can the rest of the structure take it?

If you have upgraded engine already, possibly upgrade pump and see how the exisitng cylinder works?

Wow, a 5" cylinder should split wood like Hulk Hogan

 

[SWI Don]

With some intellegence there isn't much you can't split with a 4" cylinder with 2500 psi. You have to be smart and read the wood but I split a lot of wood with a friends rig before I built my own. It had a straight 30 degree wide wedge so there was no compound or knife edge to make it easier.

Now I have a 5" - 3000 psi rig and you have to try to be stupid to stall it. It can be done. I did it with a big locust crotch trying to split it the hard way without taking the legs off first. I beat it off of the wedge and knocked the legs off and she split easy as pie.

If you have an 8" wideflange beam that is fairly wide (8" at least - mine is an 8 x 48#/ft) you should at least have a beam that won't bend if you load it hard. You may break your cylinder mount or bend the sled up.

Don

 

[SevenDeuce]

Thanks folks!

The Force website is nice!

I have a 4.5" cylinder x 1.5" rod with a single stage pump that maxes out at 1500PSI.

It's a bear. The engine is a downgrade from an 8HP old magneto ignition type 4 stroke, the rings/piston went.

I'll try the 2-stage barnes 3000PSI 16GPM pump and then go from there. If needed, I'll upgrade the cylinder.

Thanks Again!

Abe

 

[kevin j]

The pressure ws proably set low because not enough engine to turn it. Hence the low force.
Two stage helps, but I don't think you will be happy with 6 hp and 16 pump. You will have to set the pressure down again because of engine hp limitations. Then you lose force.

I would go the 13 gpm and keep it at 2500 potential.

 

[SWI Don]

Going to 3000 psi on a home built is risky if you cannot verify the ratings of the parts. A lot of hoses were / are rated at 2000 psi / 2500 psi. The cylinder may not be rated for 3000 psi either especially if it came from an old ancient piece of equipment.

We don't need anyone here getting hurt because they burst a hose.

Don

 

[SevenDeuce]

The hoses I have now are new, I'll have to look at the ratings. My uncle who's a SEM got this up and running for me. It's an 8'x8" I-beam, 2 gallon resevoir.

I have no idea how to adjust the current pump, but have decided that I"m going to go with the Haldex 11Gpm pump for $119 from Norther Tools.

We'll go from there.

 

[SWI Don]

Great, the relief pressure is usually set in the valve. There should be a cap you screw off with a screw and jam nut underneath it. Usually you turn it in for a higher relief pressure. It is a good idea if you you do not have a gage to get one so you know where you are. It is not necessary after you get it all set up but for getting the adjustments right it is critical.

Don

 

[SevenDeuce]

Yup, I do have a gauge. THe current setup tops at 1500PSI. I"ll look for an adjustment, see if I can get the PSI up a bit to see if that helps. Would be nice to save a few bucks and bust through this Oak without having to turn it, move it chip it down like I"m doing now.

 

[SevenDeuce]

Bringing it back from the dead.

So far I have gotten an 11GPM Haldex/Barnes pump and a 14HP Kohler engine.

Now to put them together and watch oak split. :greenchainsaw:

If this doesn't work, I'm getting a new cylinder, 4/4.5/5" x 24". Only $100 diff between the 4 and 5, and only $20 diff between the 4.5 and 5. Decisions Decisions.

Abe

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

So far I have gotten an 11GPM Haldex/Barnes pump and a 14HP Kohler engine.

That seems like a lot of engine for that pump, or maybe it's not much pump for that engine. My 35 ton is 16 gpm and 10.5 hp. It laughs at oak crotches.

If this doesn't work, I'm getting a new cylinder, 4/4.5/5" x 24". Only $100 diff between the 4 and 5, and only $20 diff between the 4.5 and 5. Decisions Decisions.

Why a cylinder - you've already got a 4.5. Is it wimpy?

 

[computeruser]

14hp engine, 22gpm pump, 4.5" cylinder @3000psi. That'll make for a fun and productive setup.

 

[eric_271]

14hp engine, 22gpm pump, 4.5" cylinder @3000psi. That'll make for a fun and productive setup.

Your gonna get him hurt now. That sounds kind of fast.

 

[kevin j]

You have the hp, put it to use. I'd for sure go 22 gpm pump, not 11.
Otherwise you are only using about half of the hp you have, and getting half the speed you could. Every stroke, for the rest of the life of this splitter you will cuss the slow speed...
Force and psi is the same either way.

Assuming 24 stroke, 22 gpm on 4.5 bore is 5 seconds extend under high flow. On low speed, 18 seconds.

Not too fast at all... I'd prefer faster, the 28 gpm, but that is too big for the engine hp.

 

[Hugenpoet]

If you've already replaced the engine with a 6hp, why not get a 4" cly and use an 11 gal pump? That's the ideal for a 6hp and should be plenty to split anything for home heating.

+1 Good way to end up with a more than adequate splitter without breaking the bank.

 

[eric_271]

You have the hp, put it to use. I'd for sure go 22 gpm pump, not 11.
Otherwise you are only using about half of the hp you have, and getting half the speed you could. Every stroke, for the rest of the life of this splitter you will cuss the slow speed...
Force and psi is the same either way.

Assuming 24 stroke, 22 gpm on 4.5 bore is 5 seconds extend under high flow. On low speed, 18 seconds.

Not too fast at all... I'd prefer faster, the 28 gpm, but that is too big for the engine hp.

You would run a 22 or a 28gpm pump off a 2 gal. reservoir? That is what he said he has. While you are talking him into spending more money on a pump almost double the price you might let him know he will also have to increase the capacity of the hyd. reservoir. That will add some more cost. I like speed my self and built mine knowing if the 22gpm was not fast enough that a simple pump change too 28gpm would do it for me however my 22gpm will extend and retract my 5''x24'' in 10 seconds or less. Thats plenty fast considering the wide wedge I use barely goes out half way befor the wood splits apart. Thats about 3 seconds out. Not fast enough yet?