Questions re: tree removals.

[NebClimber]

I just started my tree biz this season. Originally I decided not to remove anything I literally could not put my arms around. I have been invited to bid on about five "big" removals. I declined to do so. Now I realize if I want to be in the game, I need to learn to do these jobs.

I am just looking for the basics to get me thinking in the right direction.

First, how do I remove the biggest, highest, lateral limb? (In my mind I see nothing to lower it with b/c all crotches through which to run my lowering rope are below this limb. As problematic, I would be climbing above my tie-in point.)

Second, once I have a tree limbed, how to I remove the stem (or trunk). Dropping the whole thing is not an option - no room and too much impact on ground. I think I need to take it down in pieces, but how do I keep the pieces from crashing to the ground?

Please help.

 

[SilverBlue]

You are out of your league Neb. You would be better off to hire an experienced arborist or form a partnership with one and learn from him(or her) on the job.

 

[ORclimber]

I agree with SB. If you don't know how you would do it, you probably don't have the right gear either. Find a good contract climber and bid fat, if you still get the job think of the $ your spending as tuition.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Well, I'm not gonna tell ya to head for the hills, but if you do know a GOOD climber, get him and watch how he does it. As ORclimber said, it's a good learning experience!

But, if ya just gotta do it, ya gotta do it. I'm gonna assume your not talking about a MONSTER tree. And I'm also gonna assume your not talking about blocking the trunk with a pulley. That is definitely an advanced move your probaby not ready for.

Concerning the highest, biggest limb, you can simply rope it out ON ITSELF.
The trunk can be, if necessary, pancaked down. Clear your LZ after each CONTROLED DROP. If necessary, form a brush pile on the LZ to catch the chunks. This is for sure the hard way to do it, but if ya gotta, ya gotta.

No matter what, if you don't feel safe doing it, SUB-OUT a hired gun. Know your limitations, and don't be a-scared to work within them.

Climb on with yur bad self!

 

[TREETX]

You do sound a bit out of your league. Not a slam against you at all. You know your limitations at this point in time and that is important.

Just a hint, Remove the notion or using natural crotches in rigging. Yes, they have their applications, but put them out of your mind and it will 100% change the way you visualize removals.

 

[NebClimber]

Indeed I am out of my league. But, remember, I live in Nebraska. These trees are probably not "monsters" by your standards. They are manageable. Also, I am probably as sophisticated as most climbers in my area. Which is to say, not very sophisticated. There are few climbers in my area, and I am left to my own devices to raise the bar.

I just need a few tricks to get the first one under my belt.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by NebClimber
Also, I am probably as sophisticated as most climbers in my area. Which is to say, not very sophisticated.

LMAO!! I like that!

Go for it, bro.

 

[SilverBlue]

Tell ya what Neb, take some pictures and you will get better advice on exactly how to handle the removals. It's not good to advise blindly on the web.

 

[jblimbwalker]

Originally posted by TREETX

Just a hint, Remove the notion or using natural crotches in rigging. Yes, they have their applications, but put them out of your mind and it will 100% change the way you visualize removals. [/B][/QUOTE

I agree 100%. Get plenty of loop runners, rigging 'biners, pulleys and whoopie slings. It is amazing what these simplistic, yet highly functional tools can do for a climber, safety and efficiency wise.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Get the rigging gear and start using it in non critical situations

Learn the ropes before you have to do the rigging in a critical situation.

Much of the day to day stuff is basicrope through bluck and dont foul th line type stuff.

Progress from there in getting bigger stuff down when the small stuf does not concern you.

 

[murphy4trees]

Learn your cuts... open face notches 70*+... backcuts... taperred hinges... back release...
You can search this site for many of them as well as spider leg... or email me and I could look up some good threads.... Plenty to learn here...
Aslo I would recommend against leaving stubs unless you need them for something.... With good spikes you don't need them for stepping on... and with lowering blocks you don'r need them for rigging points... Some rookies tend to leave a 1' stub on every branch they cut... Well someone is going to have to recut that stub, then pick it up and do something with it... which can amount to a lot more work by the end of the day...
Good gear makes the work so much faster and easier and more fun... What you spend now will pay for itself over and over...
Also I love using the big shot to set lowering lines in adjascent trees... I'll set a floating block for the lowering line, remembering the 4:1 force multiplier on the overhead anchor and 2:1 on the rope holding the floating block. I particularly love that for the safety effect that everything moves away from me (the climber) as it releases.... no worries about ground people letting the piece run etc...
Common sense is a pre-requisite to survival.. Use it frequently.

 

[mikecross23]

NebClimber,
Definately make flush cuts. It will help retreive the let down with less snags! I recently bought my first block, slings and bull rope because I was facing the same problems you've got. After a lot of studying, reading arboristsite, and practicing in non critical situations, my removing skills have taken off. I'm still slow at times and have a lot to learn, but it feels good to knock out a big removal smooth, efficient, and controlled. Like others said, set a high let down point were most everything can be lowered from and tie yourself in below that. Come down and work your way back up the tree until you can take the top and catch it on itself. Always double check your lifeline and let down to make sure they aren't tangled before your cuts and always connect your second tie in before cuts.

Find somebody, anybody, pay them or give them your first child, as long as they are experienced, and well experienced. Having an experienced rope man can be the deciding factor for me to do a big technical removal. My regular ropeman is doing good, but everytime he watches the "go to guy" he picks up more and more and we work all that much better together. You need to know the ropes to teach someone else how to run them, so do some networking and go to your local saw shop or call other services in the yellow pages and find a contract climber. Watch him, run his ropes and learn from him. On large removals it is easy to add the cost of a well seasoned climber into the bid. You'll learn a lot on the ground and seeing him in the tree will give you ideas and who knows, you might be done by noon?

Hope this helps,
-Mike-

 

[TimberMcPherson]

Rigging experience

Rigging can be an artform in itself. You have to understand the physics of falling load before anything as its these forces that dictate everything else. You can have a great bull line, great pulley and brake, perfect cut, good positioning and just not factoring in the falling mass properly will turn it all to custard (or claret).

Give me a 4 tonne bull line and a 300kg block and I can snap your rope like knitting wool. Its vital you understand how this is possible before you eventually find out the hard, painful and ???? right expensive way.

Follow the advice of these guys, learn from others mistakes, dont crash on making your own.

Your over your head in this, contract climb for some other company, or be a groundie a day a week for a bigger company for a while. Sounds like you have got into a game without really knowing the basic rules. And if you dont know what your doing, how much danger is your ground crew in?

 

[TimberMcPherson]

explanation

I had a boss who sounds a bit like you, had very little technical knowledge yet somehow had a tree company. If I followed some of his suggestions on how things should be done I doubt I would still be walking.

He learned that he wasnt up to doing the actual work and he employed capable and experienced guys, he learned this the hard way.


To get the experience in will cost you a little time and money

To not could cost you your life,you business or your staff.

Make it easy for yourself Neb

 

[Ax-man]

Re: Tree removal, no experience

Nebclimber

I'm not trying to rain on your parade here, but I do have a question??

Are you the same guy who started a thread on another site just a couple of months ago wanting to know how to acquire basic climbing skills and undecided about which saddle to buy.

If you are, I think your biting off more than you can chew by stepping up to a big removal. If you haven't got your climbing skills down pat, I don't think a removal is a place you want to be just yet. Climbing aand pruning is one thing . Working with a saw and swinging limbs,blocking wood is just a whole different ball game.

I've been through Lincoln, like you said , the trees aren't big by other standards, from what I saw was mostly an over population of Silver Maples, that aren't near the size we have here. But still they are big enough for the uniniated when it comes to tree removal.

If your not the same guy that I mentioned in this reply, I'm still going to give the same advise as the others. HIRE THE JOB OUT!!


Do some more climbing and small limb lowering to get a feel for bigger material. It's the best way to learn, experiment with tools of trade before going on to advanced big tree removal. You've heard of the school of hard knocks, big tree removal is offered every semester all year long. Not everybody graduates with honors or safely with their bodies in tact.

 

[rwilk]

NebClimber,
I too am new to the climbing and own my own company. Everything so far is right. Sub-it if it's bigger than you can do confidently, buy good equip., take your time, etc. etc. One thing that I did was I worked for free for guy whole owned a small company. He taught me things and was willing to help because I wasn't costing him anything, and he did get productivity. Another thing is consider buying some Arbor Master Training Videos. They helped me greatly. And of course read and post on A/S. You may ask a question or make a statement that gets some ribbing or harsh critizism, but you will learn. You must have some sence or guts because you starting a company, so sit back, take it slow and learn

just a thought
rwilk

 

[NebClimber]

OK guys. Here are the trees. You can click on the photo to enlarge it. We are talking about the two pines next to the house.

Also, to Ax Man. Yes. And I've been climbing every day since. I just want to show the trees to make sure we are all on the same page. Then you guys can either confirm or revise your thoughts based on what you see.

http://lancjes2.ci.lincoln.ne.us:8080/LANCPRD2/IWW810/IW10/CPO900?sys=+&vParcel=17-31-315-017-000

 

[MasterBlaster]

The pines look like no big deal to me. Rope the limbs, throw/rope the top out. Either block it down, or hire a crane.

De nada, esa!

 

[jblimbwalker]

Kinda difficult to tell anything about pine on left, I'm assuming it's about the same size as other. One cut limbs, no need to step out on any. If you don't feel comfortable rigging out the top, or dumping it in the yard then climb all the way to the top and work everything down small, using the cutnhold technique, of course while holding the saw with two hands while cutting Block it down small as well, take some tires. Take it cut by cut and limb by limb. As a wise man once said, "You can do it!"

 

[murphy4trees]

You might even be able to protect or temporarily move the shrubs... That is of course where good gunning and felling technique can be a huge asset... I would probably set a block in the tallest tree and rig all the limbs on both trees down from that 1 pont.. then either block out the wood or preferably drop the sticks in one cut... Once the first tree comes down you can use the wood to protect the shrubs... So you might consider blocking the top of the spar out of the tree, farthest from the hedge... Get the top down only far enough to fall inside the hedge. Fell it, then set the wood up to protect the hedge... and fell the second stick...
Good luck and be safe.... Its far better to take your time and be careful, than to pay for fixing or replacing...