Really, what wit all these old dudes?

[treemandan]

Who are trying to get into tree work. I just had a bad experiance with one of you. It was my fault I got burnt. The guy turns out to be ISA after a little reading, an ex-hack electrcian who happens to have a bucket truck but don't know one tree from the other. This guy was literaly bragging about getting his saws at auction. At AUCTION!? Well, I only saw one , the rest, he said, were in the shop.

So i drive all the way out there on sub contract ( and this guy is a total ####### contractor saying yes to everything and talking about how it was like it means anything now - oh don't get me started), I see the trees, he asks how much I would have charged like he knows he don't know and he didn't. I said " a few K just to get talking about how much to charge" , He didn't have anywhere near that.

I was thinking " I came out for my 400, I am getting it one way or another". I got it but i think i cost me more than that to make it. I should have just said no and left. He had a kid to help, the guy said " the kid knows what to do". I knew he was lying ( especially when they tried to pull over that back leaning oak pole with a 2 wheel drive pickup, it was going up hill in loose dirt, rope tied to the back and into the street. I didn't let them do that.

See? I am a nice guy. I broke my ass taking these big oaks of the house. I shouldn't have done it. I think my sub contracting days are over. Well, I do get off showing off, but #### these mother####ers.

Really, even some of these manager/salesmen/ISA yacks with 20 years with a dill doe up their ass want o guy buy a bucket and still can't get the tree down. They ask me how much. Hey, I don't really care if its top dollar, I just want to have people with their minds ready to do tree work when they step on the feild.

Yeah, I am a lunatic, that is why I am up there. I am not a stupid lunatic though. Really, I think I would just be happy to be alive at that age. Start a tree company? Better of starting a garden pops, no offense, I sure hope I ain't sutpit enough to start a tree company when I am over 50 and actually do the work without knowing how to do it.

And they all same the same thing " I am going for municple contracts!" Its always contracts this and contracts that.

Even the kids are doing it. Its rampant, like a plague. One dude spent a wad on a CC machine, printer and who knows what to have in his truck so he could spit out contracts right and left. That #### caused more problems i would ever hope to see doing this work and ended up full of dust and broken. Really now?

Who are these people trying to be? I am The Dan, they are not.

 

[tree md]

I am to the point that I will no longer contract climb unless I am in dire straights and in desperate need of income. These yo yo's get out and underbid then want you to come in and climb it for them... The whole process just makes no sense to me. From now on I'm like, your dumbass bid it that cheap, now figure out how to do it. Really, I think you are just shooting yourself in the foot working for these yo yo's. I know I would be.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Kinda hear ya there. I am 50 now, but I started climbing when I was 17. I quit climbing at 42 and went to operations for a good company. I don't want the head-ache of being an owner. There is no money (real money) in residential here. They are small and remain small. Our competition is pretty much apples to apples and I like that.
Jeff

 

[tree MDS]

I've been thinking lately that there should be (in a perfect world) a test that you have to pass before you're allowed to start a tree business. It would involve actually climbing and manually taking down a big assed tree in a nasty spot.. and I mean a bad one! There could be some sort of point system that seasoned treemen would score maybe..

I'm sick of it too... my area has become so saturated with tree companies, that now that I have all this crap in the yard, it's like I'm making less than ever and just trying to survive! They're like rats and probably 80% of em shouldn't even be allowed to call themselves treemen!!

Why are you helping the enemy dano??

 

[tree md]

I'm not sure who it is that has been bidding against me but twice in the past 2 weeks I've had clients tell me that they chose me over another service... Both times my price was higher. Not sure who some of these guys are but they must be some real yo yo's. :yoyo:

 

[tree MDS]

I'm not sure who it is that has been bidding against me but twice in the past 2 weeks I've had clients tell me that they chose me over another service... Both times my price was higher. Not sure who some of these guys are but they must be some real yo yo's. :yoyo:

Don't you love it when you look at the job, quote it, the customer says the price sounds reasonable, and they'll get back to you. Then some ####ing moron goes in there and litterally drives the market into the dirt with his low-ball bid! These people just don't understand and they'll probably never survive the long term, but we have to somehow survive them! That's our burden. Hell, I'm even starting to do it myself now... I gotta survive, and I didn't get this far to die now... ####ers!

 

[tree md]

With the economy the way it is and the amount of people out of work the price of everything has gone down. Hell the pizza joints are selling large pizzas for half of what they used to go for. I am getting about a third less on my jobs than I was 3 years ago before everything really tanked. Back home I can still get premium prices (read fair and reasonable) through referrals and repeat business but here I am having to bump and grind with the morons with wild things. Storms like this seem to turn everyone into a tree expert. I mean, if you could see some of the bids I have come in behind you would laugh. Had one a couple of months back: Large dead Oak that was killed by the previous pruning 8 months earlier, 4' DBH, right over house and pool, 20x40 or so drop zone, no access, every piece would have to come through the garage (36" back door). I bid it for 33 with a crane and pick it over the house. Two guys bid before me. One bid 22 to remove the whole tree and carry it out through the garage. One guy bid it at 14 and leave the trunk. The guy told me he would rather go with me and the crane if I could do it for 3K.

 

[treeman82]

I've been thinking lately that there should be (in a perfect world) a test that you have to pass before you're allowed to start a tree business. It would involve actually climbing and manually taking down a big assed tree in a nasty spot.. and I mean a bad one! There could be some sort of point system that seasoned treemen would score maybe..

I'm sick of it too... my area has become so saturated with tree companies, that now that I have all this crap in the yard, it's like I'm making less than ever and just trying to survive! They're like rats and probably 80% of em shouldn't even be allowed to call themselves treemen!!

On the bright side, we do have the arborist license law. Though I am in agreement with you on the physical test... just talked with a guy yesterday whose brother in law got killed about a month ago on a tree job. It was his own company, so thankfully he wasn't working for some piece of crap who had never climbed before... I hate those types.

 

[tree MDS]

On the bright side, we do have the arborist license law. Though I am in agreement with you on the physical test... just talked with a guy yesterday whose brother in law got killed about a month ago on a tree job. It was his own company, so thankfully he wasn't working for some piece of crap who had never climbed before... I hate those types.

Yeah, but I'm sure you got know nothing butchers with arborist licenses over your way too. It's just a test after all. I sent my old lady for the test years ago, while I was busy doing treework! Lol.

 

[ForTheArborist]

The guy said a third less than what he was making three yrs ago. Makes me think the middle class may wash out into a huge lower class society. Then it will be back to the good days for sure, boys. That means hand saws and hemp roaps. ;-)

 

[jefflovstrom]

The guy said a third less than what he was making three yrs ago. Makes me think the middle class may wash out into a huge lower class society. Then it will be back to the good days for sure, boys. That means hand saws and hemp roaps. ;-)

Ya know FTA, it is kinda hard to figure out what you are trying to say and what you say. I think if you stepped back and read what you wrote, you would see that that you just confirmed what I said. In this economy, HO's are seeking the low bid. The biz is saturated with wannabe's and un-employed guy's with a truck and saw. If that is your market and they are your competitor's, then that is the bed you made. You live here in San Diego. Look at all those new names on trucks on the freeway!!
I saw a truck that advertised house painting and tree trimming.
Bottom line,
If you market yourself in that arena, then deal with it!
Otherwise, Put yourself above them and they cannot even bid on the same job.
I know you are not going to take my advice, but, I am gonna give it anyway.
You are serious enough so I would put an ad on Craigs and hire a seasoned local,long time climber that is looking to get guaranteed 40 a week and let him run the show. Then shut up and listen to him!
Jeff

 

[ForTheArborist]

What do you know? Thats exactly what i was going to do?

 

[ForTheArborist]

...but then again jan the man could say something about that. He dont like them old men. He said theyre too windy and trip n fall too much for him. Cant even tie their shoes. So, i guess ill look else where.

 

[treemandan]

I've been thinking lately that there should be (in a perfect world) a test that you have to pass before you're allowed to start a tree business. It would involve actually climbing and manually taking down a big assed tree in a nasty spot.. and I mean a bad one! There could be some sort of point system that seasoned treemen would score maybe..

I'm sick of it too... my area has become so saturated with tree companies, that now that I have all this crap in the yard, it's like I'm making less than ever and just trying to survive! They're like rats and probably 80% of em shouldn't even be allowed to call themselves treemen!!

Why are you helping the enemy dano??

Why? I don't know.

You made a comment of these old guys just the other day though some of these kids think they are Paul Bunyan right out the box. My number is still at a few saw shops from years ago, I get a call everyonce in awhile from someone new. I used to like being a sub but more and more it seems that less and less people know what they are doing and just think they can hire " a climber" so they can say " I will have to get 'my climber' to look at it before I give you a price maam." ISA sure enables the deuche bags. I didn't need any of that to make my mark.
Hell, I've been naming my own price for so long and don't know how to name anybody elses.

 

[ForTheArborist]

There are more than two ways to pet a cat and no way to pet an old man unless maybe its with sum big numbers.

Im sure if i were a senior in route of the tree snippy circuit and unto the bank, i would not give one samb if that "whats his face" said i oughta do this or that. You see, you may know my own face and see an eager smile, but in my business you can sit, roll over, or jump...whatever they trained you to do so long as its not in my business.

The thing i gather about old business is old business is own business so long as its successful business. So step off sucka. ;-)

 

[Tree Pig]

There are more than two ways to pet a cat and no way to pet an old man unless maybe its with sum big numbers.

Im sure if i were a senior in route of the tree snippy circuit and unto the bank, i would not give one samb if that "whats his face" said i oughta do this or that. You see, you may know my own face and see an eager smile, but in my business you can sit, roll over, or jump...whatever they trained you to do so long as its not in my business.

The thing i gather about old business is old business is own business so long as its successful business. So step off sucka. ;-)

holy crap what the heck did you just say?

 

[VA-Sawyer]

It's that new language.........Crapofornia!

We used to call it "diearrea of the mouth and constipation of the brain".

 

[ForTheArborist]

Come on. You guys arent that dumb. Its ok if you are though.

The main point that should be made is if a guy wants to start a business, then he may do so legally. No one needs to care if any jack rabbit such as the op gets his underwear bunched up about it.

I thought this thread was lousy.

My pops worked in a sherwood factory for 30 years, and retired in the ozarks on 360 acres. He proceeded to begin a landscaping co. He has a lot more saws than i do and a lot more heavy equipment. Lots more. He also has a 7 year contract with the state to produce a recreation trail through the woods.

My point is that old buggers or highschool drop outs can figure this crap out the same. They can figure out if youre going to be a problem with the way their businesses are going to run. They dont even care if you think twice about them or not imo. I know many seniors. They all seem to be of a certain altitude if you catch my drift.

 

[treemandan]

There are more than two ways to pet a cat and no way to pet an old man unless maybe its with sum big numbers.

Im sure if i were a senior in route of the tree snippy circuit and unto the bank, i would not give one samb if that "whats his face" said i oughta do this or that. You see, you may know my own face and see an eager smile, but in my business you can sit, roll over, or jump...whatever they trained you to do so long as its not in my business.

The thing i gather about old business is old business is own business so long as its successful business. So step off sucka. ;-)

Now you are petting old men? Yeah, I have no idea what you are talking about either and neither do you. Step off? What? Are you even on?

 

[treemandan]

Come on. You guys arent that dumb. Its ok if you are though.

The main point that should be made is if a guy wants to start a business, then he may do so legally. No one needs to care if any jack rabbit such as the op gets his underwear bunched up about it.

I thought this thread was lousy.

My pops worked in a sherwood factory for 30 years, and retired in the ozarks on 360 acres. He proceeded to begin a landscaping co. He has a lot more saws than i do and a lot more heavy equipment. Lots more. He also has a 7 year contract with the state to produce a recreation trail through the woods.

My point is that old buggers or highschool drop outs can figure this crap out the same. They can figure out if youre going to be a problem with the way their businesses are going to run. They dont even care if you think twice about them or not imo. I know many seniors. They all seem to be of a certain altitude if you catch my drift.

If I were you I would shut up and do what your pops did then. You can't do this work, neither could he. If you, your pops or the last yack I met could then we would not even be having this conversation. Now run along and play tree company owner.