Rigging w/ biners, instead of a knot..?

[MasterBlaster]

What are those? Upside down trees?

 

[RescueMan]

Combine this with the fact that the...guy might not be so familiar with the knot. Then add a little bit of sense of urgency..., throw in some frustration and impatience....VIOLA!

This is why the bowline is being phased out of Firefighter training in my area. That, and few opportunities to practice/use ropes, and (I guess I have to admit it) not always the best and the brightest on volunteer fire departments.

The old curriculum used to include the "bowline-with-a-bight" or three-loop bowline to use as an improvised seat harness. Now I've heard certified instructors teaching that the bowline is NOT a life safety knot. And many rope rescue instructors, in a variety of fields, have gone to teaching mainly the figure-8 family of knots.

The place I work now only a few use bowline most use clove hitch with a few half hitches which I think is disaster waiting to happen.

This combo is what is taught to firefighters for raising or lowering equipment, such as long-handled tools, axes, and air bottles. I believe this is a very secure system and can't imagine it wouldn't be safe in tree work.

- Robert

 

[Lumberjack]

Originally posted by xtremetrees
Id like to rigg these buggers out

What is the DBH on those things?

 

[Dadatwins]

Originally posted by RescueMan



This combo is what is taught to firefighters for raising or lowering equipment, such as long-handled tools, axes, and air bottles. I believe this is a very secure system and can't imagine it wouldn't be safe in tree work.

- Robert

When rigging trees I have seen the hitch open. When the knot has constant tension not likely, but when swinging limbs on a rope there is a few seconds after limb reaches end of swing and starts return that there is no tension on rope and hitch can move. I have seen them unravel mid air when tension is removed. Putting a few half hitches behind can make it more secure but I still feel risk of movement is there. I prefer bowline and for bigger wood I use a marl and bowline. I have never seen bowline unravel yet that was properly tied & set. For raising equipment like pole saw and water bottles clove hitch works because of constant tension.

 

[NickfromWI]

TreeJunkie- If something grabs the little loop that makes the slipped bowline slippery, it'll pull the tail out and leave you with a normal runnin' bowline. Now if something were to somehow grab the tail and yank on that, then maybe...

love
nick

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i think that in a time before our own there was an addage "safe as 2 half hitches" that was known to people that didn't tie knots even.

i think that a round turn or another turn then flipped to the more self trapping clove is usally defined as secure backed with 2 half hitches. i leave a nice tail, and will tuck a bight of it(to make slipped hitch) under the primary loaded line coming into clove for neatness and added security. i look at successive friction to be able to increase in rigs, wraps and knots to the point where a baby, could hold a bus. So i take the part of line that a baby could hold the busses pull, and trap that under the busses pull. So the bus holds what the baby could, as the bus stands on it's own bootstrap. i think many knots have such a strategy.

Another clove form that works well for me is a slipped constrictor, jsut don't let anyone else untie it!! So i'll use it for supports etc.

When using any kind of half hitch to running bowline etc. strategy, do y'all setup specifically for the turns not to reverse (like extended clove) or set it with the running bowline etc. wrap opposite the direction of the first? i always go the same direction.

i always make sure that if the support is not over the load, that the line comes down the load on the support side, then under, then the cross to make hitch and trace down to the running bowline. So that upon loading of the line, the support pulls the hitch closed, not relaxes it. By setting the crossing line of the hitch, the eye of the bowline (sling same way), on the opposite side of the load than support; so that these devices act as an immediate restriction to the pull from the support.

Even if the first was set like that, changing direction on the 2nd turn; would pull the mainline towards the support choking that 1st hitch closed; it could at the same time/direction of pull loosen the 2nd wrap. Because it would be pulling into the restriction of the bowline eye, rather than setting away from it. As once again the most leveraged position against a pull is on the same axis, most directly opposing. Errrrrrrrr that is how i've taught myself to see and work it.

Or something like that!
:alien:

 

[xtremetrees]

One day I hope they invent a knot that unties itself.

Maybe when I can invent one. A mechanical one that is remote controlled. Chances are thou granny would untie a log over her house with her ultraviloet TV remote. ha
Boom! Doom on poor granny.. Oops back to the drawing board.

Carl I dont know bro Somewhere in southeast asia I think.
Look fat dont they. Probably have to use an old steel core flipline to choke the stubb attach a loop runner and biner or two to rope them out.

I think Afghan Iraq trees.

 

[NickfromWI]

Guys, those trees are called Baobabs. They grow in Africa. You can see them there, or read about them in "The Little Prince."

You should read that book anyway.

love
nick

 

[xtremetrees]

Hey thanks Nick,
I like these from Aust.
It looks like two trees in one. A double crowed tree?
Nature sure is awsome

Ps. Araucaria bidwillii (bunya pine; Murrurundi, New South Wales