Road Building...Plan in the Head

[slowp]

This road has been under construction for 3 weeks now. The "plan" was a line on a map and a hard to find flag line on the ground...literally on the ground in a few places. I walked it with the road builder and he pointed and I shot the trees to cut for right of way with my paint gun. We've worked together several times now. He walks it, and then plans it in his head. In the old days, the road would be designed by an engineer and given a number. Nowdays, the roads are built, hauled on, and then put back, or put back as much as it can be. This is at the saddle on the flat part. We walked on 90% slopes to get to here, and he has that in so a four wheel drive can get in. I was able to drive to here after getting a good run at some of the muddy parts

Next week, or depending on whether the rent is by the day or hours used, maybe the next, he plans to try out some kind of equipment that will shatter rock. It should be cheaper than blasting. That will allow construction of landings and the road where he found rock to be a problem and then the excess rock will be used to rock the road. The road has a steep, 18% favorable slope, and a 14% adverse slope. Sounds like they plan to try to log it this winter. It is all yarder ground. We'll have lots of fun and frolic and inefficient speech patterns!

I think the bees are dead now. This is where I got stung a couple weeks ago.

 

[forestryworks]

interesting, thanks for sharing

what is the size of the timber along the road?

 

[RPM]

14% adverse use to be a big deal but with the newer tridem drive triaxle trucks and bigger engines not so much now. Rock that road in well and should be no biggy....leave it a little soft - different story.

Cut and fill with the cat....I like it!

 

[slowp]

14% adverse use to be a big deal but with the newer tridem drive triaxle trucks and bigger engines not so much now. Rock that road in well and should be no biggy....leave it a little soft - different story.

Cut and fill with the cat....I like it!

Not the whole road!!! The road before this goes across a steep slope so it is full bench excavator cut. I'll try and get pictures of the rock thingy if it gets going.

The timber is second growth, probably averages 14 inches DBH. It does have some nice timber in it in places. It is a purchaser mark, description by diameter thinning (of course). This is the last, and steepest unit on the sale. Some excellent young timber, too big for the processor, came out of the lower skidder units. It also came out before the market crashed. I'm not sure whether they'll try to use a yoder or get a regular yarder for this unit.

 

[hazard]

Looks like fun or work

I miss being on roadway projects that were going thru woods. I got many logs this way.

I worked on the design of highway project in SW Wisconsin where we cut 140' thru rock.

 

[Bushler]

Please explain the diff between 'favorable' and 'adverse' slope?

Anxious to see the rock breaker. The local rock pit pays $3/yd. now to have their pit drilled and shot. That makes rock pretty expensive when you add the screening cost, load and hauling.

I put a weld on pocket on the side of the heel rack on my shovel and used a ripper shank to break out rock. Worked pretty good on shale and conglomerate, but I doubt it would work on real hard rock.

 

[WidowMaker]

basically, up and down

 

[slowp]

Favorable grade is when the log trucks are going downhill loaded. With logs on that is. Adverse is when a loaded log truck has to climb to get off the landing. This is up an adverse slope.

Makes them cranky.

And then I have to listen to the whining.

 

[Gologit]

It's not really adverse until you have one Cat pushing and one Cat pulling. Getting a little push from the shovel just helps save on clutches and drive-lines. I'd much rather give a guy a nudge with the shovel than spend an hour with the landing plugged while we're waiting for him to fix whatever he broke...or at least whatever time it takes to drag him up to a wide spot so we can get going again.

You want to make sure the Catskinners are in agreement about which gear to pull and push in though...saves a lot of busted bull lines, bent reaches, and original language (as Slowp calls it).

 

[Bushler]

Thanks for the explanation. I've been misusing the term 'adverse' for as long as I can remember.

 

[slowp]

It's not really adverse until you have one Cat pushing and one Cat pulling. Getting a little push from the shovel just helps save on clutches and drive-lines. I'd much rather give a guy a nudge with the shovel than spend an hour with the landing plugged while we're waiting for him to fix whatever he broke...or at least whatever time it takes to drag him up to a wide spot so we can get going again.

You want to make sure the Catskinners are in agreement about which gear to pull and push in though...saves a lot of busted bull lines, bent reaches, and original language (as Slowp calls it).

That used to happen here. We called it a push me pull me. There were also some roads where the switchbacks were too sharp so they had extension kind of roads at the switchback. The truck went up forwards, then backwards then forwards...
Lots of mirror practice.

 

[windthrown]

Thanks for the explanation. I've been misusing the term 'adverse' for as long as I can remember.

So, that would make my late father (ex-Navy, he swore like a pistol) an "original adverse" language type?

 

[windthrown]

Why all the effort to demo the roads there after using? Here when a cut is done, most roads are covered in baby alders in 3 years, and completely grown over in about 10 years. Most roads here are on commercial land, and they grade and culvert them expecting to use them again at some future time with far less effort to clear and grade. They also burm, gate or bolder them to keep people from using them.

 

[slowp]

Why all the effort to demo the roads there after using? Here when a cut is done, most roads are covered in baby alders in 3 years, and completely grown over in about 10 years. Most roads here are on commercial land, and they grade and culvert them expecting to use them again at some future time with far less effort to clear and grade. They also burm, gate or bolder them to keep people from using them.

If it were up to me, that would be fine. But there are highly educated people who know better. So, this road will have to be recontoured as much as possible. And that isn't much on a steep hillside. My mom always said,"Sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do."

When I first started out, we put in roads with the idea that they'd be reused when the next crop of trees was ready. We rocked the heck out of the roads and landings. The ologists seem to know better so I fear they plan to never enter again, or use helicopter for everything. They are in charge now. Kind of scary, that.

 

[windthrown]

Oy vey. Shaking head.

Its like the Mel Brooks quote in the movie Spaceballs:

":censored: UCK! Even in the future nothing works!"

 

[Bushler]

Its hard to picture it getting any better when the new admin and congress take over.

 

[Gologit]

The ologists seem to know better so I fear they plan to never enter again, or use helicopter for everything. They are in charge now. Kind of scary, that.

I think you're right. I wish you weren't.

 

[ak4195]

Its hard to picture it getting any better when the new admin and congress take over.

I was thinking its hard to think of it only getting worse thanks to this current admin and congress controlling 6 of the last 8 yrs completely.
Get ready for BIG dirt works projects,with a little luck perhaps the Forest service will snag an uptick for there own forest road projects.
Should be some decent steel out there in the auctions,I know there has been up here,course theres a fair amount of junk too.

ak

 

[Bushler]

I suspect the public works and infrastructure projects Brocko Bummer has in mind will center around the Acorn cities. The rural areas will be sacrificed for the GreenPeople.

I serioulsly doubt we'll see any easing up restrictions on Fed timber. But, there's a chance that it will increase demand for private timber...and I'd be all over that.

 

[forestryworks]

But, there's a chance that it will increase demand for private timber...and I'd be all over that.

amen!