Sold home and new home build

[muddstopper]

Had a few days of dry weather, driveway is complete. Pics to follow when I can get out there and take a few. Still trying to decide on what materials to use. Exterior walls will be 2x6. I plan on using the radiant sheeting on exterior walls and the roofing. It is a aluminum backed OSB product that supposely reflects 97% of the heat from the sun. It also reflects about 97% of the heat generated in the house to the inside. So it works to keep heat out in the summer time and heat in during the winter. It cost about $2 a sheet more than regular osb. Sounds like a lot of money, but considering there are 69sheets in a bundle, it adds up to about $140. Insulation is another area I plan on paying the premuim. JMansfield sells a fiberglass blow in insulation that is supposed to yield a R23 in a 2x6 wall. They call it spyder fiber. I dont even want to hear comments about using spray foam, my mind is made up, it aint going to happen. While spray foam might be a good product, I dont believe anybody around here knows how to install it properly. I know to many local folks that have had to have it removed. I am not going to risk it. The spyder fiber can be sprayed in sort of like foam, or they hang up a netting and blow it in. It can also be bought in batts. Cost around $1.25sqft installed. It is a shorter fiber strand and more dense than regular fiberglass insulation.

I also met with my HVAC guy this week. He has stopped doing installs, but still does service work. He's sort of like me in that the crawling around on hands and knees doesnt work anymore. Damn getting old sucks. Anyways We discussed my green heating and cooling plans and how to incorporate it into my heatpump system. Not knowing what parts I was looking for to make it work, he was a wealth of information. He has done several hybrid designs for others and he is 100% confident my solar heater plans will work. He isnt so sure about if my creek water cooled ac will work. He did fill my head full of ideals of what to search for. Research has led me to believe that to make the AC work I am going to need to use two seperate heat exchangers for hot and cold. The Solar heated exchanger needs to be installed in the supply side of the duct work. The Water cooled exchanger needs to be installed in the return side of the duct work. My original plans called for one exchanger in the return side and using solenoid control valves to switch from hot water to cold water. The 2ton rated heat exchangers cost $109 each so not having to buy the control valves will pay for the extra exchanger. My biggest concern with my hybrid system is hot water storage. Its hard to figure out just how much storage I need and how big a solar collector is needed to heat it. My hope is that I build a big enough solar collector with proper storage to eventually install radiant floor heating.

Wife is still looking at siding and windows but has chosen a floor covering and counter tops, yay! My oldest son has his unlimited electrical license and Hvac. He can get me a good discount on a heatpump and most of the electrical fixtures.. A little free labor with the wireing. Good friend is a licensed plumber, he has agreed to do the layout but not the install, and to inspect my work to make sure it will pass the inspectors. My middle son has been building houses since high school, he wont be framing the house, but will be helping me with the finishing. Sheet rock work I aint touching, hate it, aint good at it, rather pay someone to do it.

 

[homemade]

I hear you about the spray foam. It can be very picky about the temp and humidity when applied. Both of the foam temp and air temp. If you don’t have a person that really knows what they are doing, it can turn to some ****.

What are doing to mitigate your water heating expenses? I too am building a house and am able to use my wood furnace to preheat the incoming water. But what about the summer? I recently heard about putting a 100ft coil of pex pipe in the attic to preheat the incoming water.

 

[cantoo]

homemade, preheating water seldom pays off unless you can get and keep it at a high temperature. Too much chance of creating the perfect temperature for bacteria to grow. Solar collectors would be the best bet but realistically 2 people don't use that much hot water so even an electric hot water heater isn't that expensive to run. Double wrap the tank itself and insulate all your interior lines and forget about it.

 

[bucksnbears]

About the blown in wall insulation, I do not know the product you mention but I'd be Leary of it.!
Any protrusion can stop blown in and back it up without filling the cavity.

 

[NSMaple1]

I would likely check out dense pack cellulose also. Haven't used it but have heard good things.

We've been using our mini-splits for cooling the past few days. They use very little electricity. Like, less than $2/day. And its surprising how effective dry mode on humid days. Uses even less juice.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

You mentioned you and your wife looking at wood stoves in another thread.
Vermont Casting makes a top load stove that comes in several enamel colors that are gorgeous.
(We do keep an extra catalytic element, and ceramic inner back plate catalytic cover on hand as parts can take weeks to get.)
We have two of these stoves, one enamel and one black cast.
I love the top load feature for loading.
The entire firebox can be utilized if needed. We cut 16", so I'll load off to one side half way, then load the opposite side with splits on end, and finish loading the horizontal side. When home during the day we burn small hot fires and add as needed.
The stove pictured below requires an 8" flue.
The blue stove we bought new in 1990 and moved to garage in 2013. After moving it moisture got into spider cracks on the enamel and ruined the finish, but we used it until Dec. 2015, replacing it with essentially the same stove in black.
And yes, she is a happy dog! She does not come in the house, so this is her winter heat.

Whatever your choice, it will be best to choose a stove before you build, as flue sizes vary and installations requirements do too. Some efficient stoves require a minimum straight flue distance before any elbows or bends. That eliminated one stove we looked at.

 

[muddstopper]

Sand, that stove looks exactly like the one I am considering. I think its the same one but have to go look it back up to be sure. I've looked at so many things my mind is a jumble. Loads from top, sides and front. Takes 20in wood.

To answer a few questions about heating water. My current set up yields 180* water temps, I have to really watch how I load the stove to keep the popoff valve from spewing steam. This setup supplies hot water to my electric hot water heater so the temps are slightly reduced before it gets to the bathtub. Long showers are subject to the water temp to increase instead of getting colder the longer you shower. The water in the wood heated storage tank is replaced by cold water straight from the well. Worked out ok for just me and the wife, but not a good setup for small children. My wife sort of learned to wash a load of clothes or turn on the dish washer before taking a shower.

My goal with the solar collector is to preheat the water before it goes into my electric water heater. The hotter I can preheat the water, the less electricity I will use heating well water to proper temps. My goal isn't to replace my electric water heater entirely with solar, but the possibility to do so is present. I still have a lot of figuring to do, but my hope is to generate enough solar heated water to also supplement my heat pump for heating the house. Its not a question of will this work, its a question of sizing things right the first time. Hot water storage and size of the solar collectors is the key to making it work. Plumbing the solar water heater thru a radiator type heat exchanger in my supply side of the duct work, but the flow of water has to be checked when the AC is in use.

Pumping cold water thru another heat exchanger installed in the return side of the duct work will only produce temps comparable with what ever the cold water is going into the exchanger. A constant exchange of hot water for cold water has to be maintained for this to work. I will be installing a holding tank for the cold water that will be constantly refreshed by water from the creek. I will have to install a coil type (roll of copper pipe) heat exchanger in that tank. I will use a low voltage recirculating pump to keep the water moving thru a closed loop system. Eventual plans call for a hydro generator to power the pump for zero electrical usage. Except for the cooling tank, none of this stuff is excessively expensive. The 2 ton rated heat exchangers are $109 each. Again this isn't designed to replace my heat pump and the heat pump will be fully functionable in the event I run out of hot or cold water. I will also have the wood stove for just incase.

The comments about the blown in insulation. I have been researching this pretty hard. The spider fiber is a lot denser than normal blown fiberglass insulation. Shorter fibers and fills voids better than the cellulose, and it doesn't settle. It can be applied in three different methods. 1. it can be bought in batts like the pink stuff. 2. It can be blown in behind a thin fiber netting that you can see thru so you know if your not filling the voids. 3. it can be applied as a wet spray. Basically its the same fiber as is being blown in but it has a acrylic spay applied as its blown in. The main thing is it provides a r23 value which is r4 more than the pink batts. Cost for the BIB with the net is around $1.25 sqft. Not expensive, but not cheap either. I will be using radiant sheeting in the walls and roof. I will probably rent the insulation blower and insulate the attic myself. I plan on a few of those solar tubes for lighting. Lots of ideals, as long as the money doesn't run out

 

[cantoo]

Muddstopper, do a little more checking onto insulation. They make more variety of R values now for 2x6 wall. There is an R22 and an R24 available in 5 1'/2" batts. There are also foam boards for the exterior but they get pricy quick. Our Building Code here states the minimums allowed for every part of the house. Maybe better check your codes there too?
http://insulation.owenscorning.ca/homeowners/insulation-products/pink-fiberglass-r24.aspx

 

[muddstopper]

Muddstopper, do a little more checking onto insulation. They make more variety of R values now for 2x6 wall. There is an R22 and an R24 available in 5 1'/2" batts. There are also foam boards for the exterior but they get pricy quick. Our Building Code here states the minimums allowed for every part of the house. Maybe better check your codes there too?
http://insulation.owenscorning.ca/homeowners/insulation-products/pink-fiberglass-r24.aspx

I have looked at that product. Nobody, and I mean nobody, around here carries it. Not lowes, not home depot, local building suppliers, nobody. Not sure I can even get it, or what it would cost.

 

[bucksnbears]

Mud. I'm not trying to perswayed you from blown in wall insulation but I can't imagine it can be better than a well installed R19.
Any gap will decrease the the stated R22.
Don't get caught up in the R22 value.

Edited too add. I used to to HUD work and blown in wall insulation is what I did.. biggest waste of money untill the Muhller report!

 

[homemade]

No to keep adding to the why didn’t you do it this way argument but have you considered red mineral wool or rock wool insulation over fiberglass?

https://www.thehousedesigners.com/blog/whats-difference-fiberglass-vs-mineral-wool-insulation/

 

[NSMaple1]

Muddstopper, do a little more checking onto insulation. They make more variety of R values now for 2x6 wall. There is an R22 and an R24 available in 5 1'/2" batts. There are also foam boards for the exterior but they get pricy quick. Our Building Code here states the minimums allowed for every part of the house. Maybe better check your codes there too?
http://insulation.owenscorning.ca/homeowners/insulation-products/pink-fiberglass-r24.aspx

I'm not so sure our building codes get everything right.

I was required to seal all the interior of our house up with vapour barrier when we built, 24 years ago. That was a long time ago, not sure that is still code up here but I think so?

So now if I want to re-side our house and put some foam board on the outside over the sheathing before the new siding goes on (seems reasonable - a significant increase to air sealing and overall insulation R value?) - well, I can't. Or I need to be very very careful with what exactly it is & how it's done. Because with the vapour barrier on the inside, the walls would become a moisture trap.

I am a bit out of touch now with codes and improved building techniques & materials, but that is my understanding.

 

[muddstopper]

No to keep adding to the why didn’t you do it this way argument but have you considered red mineral wool or rock wool insulation over fiberglass?

https://www.thehousedesigners.com/blog/whats-difference-fiberglass-vs-mineral-wool-insulation/

Fiberglass is a mineral wool. Fiberglass made from sand and rock wool made from rock or slag. Red mineral wool I am not familiar with. Rock wool weighs about 1.46 times more than fiber glass. This can cause a big problem when installing over sheetrock between rafters. The extra weight can cause sheetrock sagging and coming loose around the screws. This is not a problem installed in walls. One could actually double the installation amount and rvalue using fiberglass in the attic for the difference in weight and cost of rock wool. Rock wool cost about twice that of fiberglass insulation. The dimensional stability of rock wool is greater than fiberglass, when comparing to the older long strands fiberglass, but not much difference between the newer, shorter strand, material. While I can possibly get rockwool around here, it is not a common building material in my area. Fiberglass insulation has came a long ways since it was invented. Shorter fibers yielding higher densities and better Rvalues than in the past. Either material is only as good as the installation. Rock wool batts have to be cut to fit and isn't easy to install around electrical boxes and other voids. Simply stuffing the voids with compressed batts reduces the insulation values of either product. Blown in fiberglass or cellulose will fill the voids without compressing the fibers. Caulking and sealing any potential air flows will add more insulation value than using more of or different types of insulation. My research hasn't shown any appreciable advantage to using either product, so it kind of boils down to availability and price.

 

[muddstopper]

Met with the power company today to layout my underground power line. It was a different guy than I met with about a year ago when this process started. He had some better ideals about how to get the power to my house than the first guy. Of course the first guy didn't get to see the place after the road was installed. Anyways, I still don't like the cost. $9273.00 is the estimate he gave me. Ouch! I just paid the grading contractor $14,600 for the road and house site. That's almost $25k and I haven't even bought a 2x4. Still that is inline with our original estimates. Still have the septic and well to pay for. My luck with drilling wells hasn't been that great in the past. 1st one was great, 20gal min and 200ft. Second one was a nightmare, 613ft and they blowed dust off the drill bit when they pulled it out. Had well hydrofracked and got 5gpm. Third and 4th wells where dry. 5th well was 300feet and 5gpm. It was located about halfway between the two dry wells on the same property.

I keep intending to take pic but keep forgetting, maybe tomorrow.

 

[homemade]

Tuff luck about the well. Hopefully you won’t have to go to a cistern and have it trucked in.

 

[Mustang71]

I would just go with fiberglass in the walls and attic. Probably the cheapest and it will be more than enough insulation. They built houses for years with 2x4 walls and 6 inches of insulation in the attic and now the code demands a lot more. I really think you are over thinking the heating and cooling system. It's a cool idea but theres a lot that can change when relying on solar and creek water. We put in the Mitsubishi hyper heat mini splits and they are real efficent and heat below 0. I would think all the electricity it takes to run pumps and an air handler would be the same or more than a quality mini split would use. Mess with the solar for hot water and go from there for heat and cool. Your average 410a system has a 45 degree coil temp when cooling around 72 degrees so if that creek water is a lot warmer then you are going to have a hard time keeping up with the heat and the humidity. It will not dehumidify very well if you only have a 10 degree split from coil temp to incoming air temp.

 

[muddstopper]

I would just go with fiberglass in the walls and attic. Probably the cheapest and it will be more than enough insulation. They built houses for years with 2x4 walls and 6 inches of insulation in the attic and now the code demands a lot more. I really think you are over thinking the heating and cooling system. It's a cool idea but theres a lot that can change when relying on solar and creek water. We put in the Mitsubishi hyper heat mini splits and they are real efficent and heat below 0. I would think all the electricity it takes to run pumps and an air handler would be the same or more than a quality mini split would use. Mess with the solar for hot water and go from there for heat and cool. Your average 410a system has a 45 degree coil temp when cooling around 72 degrees so if that creek water is a lot warmer then you are going to have a hard time keeping up with the heat and the humidity. It will not dehumidify very well if you only have a 10 degree split from coil temp to incoming air temp.

I have been monitoring the creek temps for a few years now and it stays around 57F. It comes straight out of the mountain not far from where I am building. The coil temps are only 45degrees when the compressor is running. The goal here is to use a dual thermostat to prevent the compressor from running unless the house temp gets above a certain temp. Let the creek water bring the temps down as much as possible before running the compressor on the heat pump. Condensation off the heat exchanger might be a issue, but placing the heat exchanger on the return side of the air handler should provide drainage thru the factory drip pan. Electricity to run the water pump will be provided by a hydro generator and will be a low voltage system. Since the water being pumped thru the pipes is a closed loop system, a low pressure low flow pump should work. The fan in the air handler will run off house current and be controlled with the thermostat, the same as if it would in any standard heat pump. Granted the air coming from the duct work wont be as cold as it would if the compressor is running, but cooling a house down to 57f degrees will still be plenty cold. One of the problems I see could be the fan might run longer than it normally would if the compressor was pumping. Long run times could result in using as much power consumption as a short runtime with the compressor. I wont know if that happens until I try it.

 

[NSMaple1]

I would just go with fiberglass in the walls and attic. Probably the cheapest and it will be more than enough insulation. They built houses for years with 2x4 walls and 6 inches of insulation in the attic and now the code demands a lot more. I really think you are over thinking the heating and cooling system. It's a cool idea but theres a lot that can change when relying on solar and creek water. We put in the Mitsubishi hyper heat mini splits and they are real efficent and heat below 0. I would think all the electricity it takes to run pumps and an air handler would be the same or more than a quality mini split would use. Mess with the solar for hot water and go from there for heat and cool. Your average 410a system has a 45 degree coil temp when cooling around 72 degrees so if that creek water is a lot warmer then you are going to have a hard time keeping up with the heat and the humidity. It will not dehumidify very well if you only have a 10 degree split from coil temp to incoming air temp.

I think I would also just do mini-splits and a wood stove to supplement, if I was building new. We put 2 in back in November (Daikin), and they have been awesome. Even just on 'dry' setting when it is humid out it is very surprising the effect, in the summer. With very little electricity use. A/c mode doesn't seem to use a whole lot more.

But also, if someone has an 'outside the box' idea that they're pretty sure would work, and the time & inclination to actually try it, all the power to them.

 

[muddstopper]

I am pretty sure what I want to do will work, but I do plan to have a conventional heat pump. I also will doing my system as a addon, with the installation of critical parts during the construction and than completing each piece of the system independently. My goal is that the heat pump doesn't have to run, or will run very little. I am really sure the heating part of my proposed system will work, if I can size it appropriately with proper storage and I don't expect to get it right the first attempt. Not so sure about how well the cooling part is going to work. There are many folks that have installed solar heating systems so there is a little information out there to get ideals from. The water cooling I haven't found in a residential situation. Industrial water cooling usually involves cooling towers. I have helped install one water cooled in duct system. It did work but had severe limitations. The homeowner tried doing his system with the wrong parts. He used the Aframe coil out of a old heat pump and his cold water came from irrigation tubing buried 2ft down in the soil. His problems where not enough surface area to exchange hot for cold with his Aframe coil and heat saturation of the soil his tube was buried in. His system worked somewhat for a while, but once the soil was heat saturated, it stopped working. I will be using a lot bigger heat exchanger designed for low pressure cooling and I will have a unlimited source for cold water. Will it work? I think so, but wont know until I try. I do think condensation is going to be a issue, but wont know how severe or how to correct until the system is working.

 

[92utownxh]

Our electric comes through a coop, the most expensive in the state. They charge $100 per foot to bury wire to a house. Would it be an option to put the meter at the road and you bury the wire to the house from there? Several people around here have done that to save money. The downfall is the wire is yours to maintain if something goes wrong. I see one like this everyday on our road. The meter is next to the road on heavy wood posts and base. Then, they trenched the wire up the hill to their house, several hundred feet.