Said goodbye to my second 5100s

[Lakeside53]

Carb adjustment prolems are nothing new on the 5100S, I BELIEVE IT HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE REV LIMITER, BUT i AM NOT AN EXPERT, AND COULD EASILY BE WRONG (AGAIN).

What you are saying is that it is real easy for the tuner to get it way too lean by not understanding the action of the limter as the rpm is turned up...

Andyshine - did you re-adjust your H? ever? Any chance the dealer messed it up? Dealers don't know everything, trust me :biggrinbounce2:

 

[begleytree]

The difference going from 50:1 to 32:1 is so minute as to make fuel mixture difference inconsequential. Dealers set the saws a hair rich to begin with, and any difference will fall well within the richness cushion.

hmm, 32:1 is @ 1/3 less fuel than 50:1, with no prior setting changes, of course. I have a hard time seeing 1/3 of the total as inconsequential.
thats like turning the high jet in 1/3 turn on a 1 out adjustment and expecting no change. I dont see it making no difference.

I would like to see it ran though. run a saw on 50:1 and set to perfect max rpm, empty and burn off, then run at the same settings in same saw at 32:1 and note max revs. would be interesting, and would set this arguement to the ash heap of history once an for all.
-Ralph

 

[spacemule]

hmm, 32:1 is @ 1/3 less fuel than 50:1, with no prior setting changes, of course. I have a hard time seeing 1/3 of the total as inconsequential.

You're using fuzzy math. ;-) You're not going to have 1/3 less fuel. At 50:1 you'll have 98 oz. of fuel per 100oz. of mix. At 32:1 you'll have 96.875 oz. of fuel per 100 oz. of mix. That's about 1.1% less fuel.

 

[Cut4fun]

Just what I have been told. I run my saws at 40:1 with carb adjustments made for that mix and had thought about going to 32:1 and wanted to know what it would cause without doing any carb adjustments. I was told it would run LEAN.
So i ask was the carb adjusted on the 5100 for 32:1 mix? Was the carb ever adjust for whatever mix it was suppose to run on by the dealer, before you switched to 32:1.
Just trying to learn from this. So let us know.

 

[manual]

What is the octane rating the dealer is using to tune.
what is the octane rating you are running.

Something to think about is he said when he turns the saw the rpm changes.
that sounds like a bad intake seal to me.

 

[sedanman]

Mule, Open a window, you need air. I'm splitting hairs here but 98 ounces of fuel and 2 ounces of oil is a mix ratio of 49:1

 

[bwalker]

now for my rant.

1. I can't believe Dolmar would do this to such a good dealer

I can.
I doubt your pre mix had anything to do with the saw blowing up. OPE mfg's love to use the bad gas card when they can.
BTW this is the 5th 5100 I have heard of blowing up. Dolmar may have a problem on their hands...

 

[Lakeside53]

You're using fuzzy math. ;-) You're not going to have 1/3 less fuel. At 50:1 you'll have 98 oz. of fuel per 100oz. of mix. At 32:1 you'll have 96.875 oz. of fuel per 100 oz. of mix. That's about 1.1% less fuel.

I wanted to say something like that, but had a few too many tonight to do the math!

It's about the same effect as a cold front moving though (out?).

 

[Lakeside53]

Just what I have been told. I run my saws at 40:1 with carb adjustments made for that mix and had thought about going to 32:1 and wanted to know what it would cause without doing any carb adjustments. I was told it would run LEAN.
.

Sure it's leaner, but not materially. Try changing your gas mix and seeing if you can get a measurable increase in rpm at WOT... And why would you want to run your saw at 32:1??? If you're worried about lubrication, just change to a better oil, like full synthetic..

BTW, not trying to shatter anyone's image of a dealer, but most doen't make any adjusment unelss you are at altitude - the factory adjusts the carb.

 

[Andyshine77]

Yes the carb would need "minor" adjustments with that mix. I ran both saws no more than ten minutes. Do any of you think a mix of 32-1 with high test fuel would harm the saw that fast? I don't think so. I run 32-1 in all my saws, Echo blower, and Stihl line trimmer. I've had my 353 and 372 for about four years now without any problems at all. If the 5100 is that sensitive I don't want one. Do you think they actually tested the fuel? Not likely.

Ben neither saw blew up, I bet if I ran them longer they would have.opcorn:

 

[brushswamper]

saw ???????

sounds possible the dealer is not able to talk to his customers very well
a good dealer should be able too knew the customers wish and what the customer like in saw perfomance
dealers need to spend a lot of their time talking to each customer so that krap like what you have going on does not need to keep going on and on
i would say find a different saw ansd dealer
dealers either make people want too keep buying x saw brand opcorn:

 

[Lakeside53]

Yes the carb would need "minor" adjustments with that mix. I ran both saws no more than ten minutes. Do any of you think a mix of 32-1 with high test fuel would harm the saw that fast? I don't think so. I run 32-1 in all my saws, Echo blower, and Stihl line trimmer. I've had my 353 and 372 for about four years now without any problems at all. If the 5100 is that sensitive I don't want one. Do you think they actually tested the fuel? Not likely.

Ben neither saw blew up, I bet if I ran them any longer they would have.opcorn:

Your mix is not the problem. It is however a convenient excuse for the manf. I'd get the saws back and have them pressure tested by someone other then your dealer (just so the is no obvious conflict of interest).

 

[Andyshine77]

Lakeside53 I'm not going to mess with the 5100 anymore, I have my money, so I'm ok. I just felt bad for the nice dealer having to eat the saws. The dealer agreed with me, he said that I was not at fault.

 

[Justsaws]

I have only seen one running 5100. It was being demonstrated by a Dolmar rep, it took 15 pulls(I counted) to start and did not not want to idle. It was not put into wood because after the starting marathon nobody else was watching but me and I said do not bother, for $409.00 I will get a saw that works better. I wish it was different but the rest of the demo went down hill fast. Dolmar rep said they were "desperate" for dealers but a demo has got to be better than the one I witnessed to get a dealer to buy a package. I am not a dealer nor do I work for one, I just happened to be there and was invited to try out some new saws. I did not get to. A person selling something should not talk down another brand unless they know their saws will start and run well. The blower demo was worse. All around a disappointing Dolmar experience. Not my first one after the grand reinvention.

 

[ericjeeper]

Oxygenated fuel by any chance?

Up in Wisconsin years back they started this oxygenated fuel stuff.. I know it was hard on some new snowsleds.. People learned pretty quick not to buy their fuel in Milwaukee. Do you have it there? Indiana does not sell it around here.. 30 miles south of Indy.

 

[bwalker]

It wont be long before the "Dolmar does no wrong" shows up.

 

[spacemule]

Mule, Open a window, you need air. I'm splitting hairs here but 98 ounces of fuel and 2 ounces of oil is a mix ratio of 49:1

Ok, ok. If you don't round, 50:1 would be 98.039215686274509803921568627451 oz of fuel and 1.960784313725490196078431372549 oz. of oil per 100 oz. of mix.

 

[Mange]

I bet the reason for this is a heat issue.
From what has been said in this thread I see more foults in the dealers actions than from your's and Dolmar's.

This is coused by something. From the first post you describe a lean running saw that has symptoms of air leak. This your dealer shuld checked. If the saw has been set by the dealer before you got it and you run it on the correct fuel mix, this shuld not happen like this.

If he can't find anything that could have coused this and there for sends it to Dolmar, he is a better friend than Dealer.

I can tell you this is not uncommon on any brand.
Stihl and HVA's have a lot of Air/Heat/Fuel issues.

 

[John Ellison]

I think it was Steve or Scott from NY that mentioned in a thread that they had found some 5100s with loose carb mounting screws. Mine took about 3/4 turn to tighten.

 

[Cut4fun]

Sure it's leaner, but not materially. Try changing your gas mix and seeing if you can get a measurable increase in rpm at WOT... And why would you want to run your saw at 32:1??? If you're worried about lubrication, just change to a better oil, like full synthetic..

BTW, not trying to shatter anyone's image of a dealer, but most doen't make any adjusment unelss you are at altitude - the factory adjusts the carb.

Lake I had gotten a couple saws that were always ran on 32:1, so I had to adjust them to run on my 40:1 mix. I was just wondering back then why 32:1 would be better or not. I dont worry about my oil its been proven with me for years and ran hard in everything without a problem. I am trying out a new to me oil right now for my woods ported saws at 40:1,Klotz.