Saw Chain

[ru55ell]

We run Oregon 3/8 .50G square ground semi skip on the 16" full skip on the 20"

Reason for thew full skip is the same number of cutters on either the 16" or 20"

Tried Windsor and Carleton but the working corners were not as presice as the Oregon making them more difficult to sharpen. All chains are done on a silvey sdm4 grinder. We use a carleton fillo-plate to set rakers and grind with a silvey raker grinder. We went with grinding chain for the consistency of the sharpening. We tend to get alot of new cutters who can't sharpen, so the shop grinding is just one less thing they have to learn. They have perfect chains from day one so we can concentrate on cutting not sharpening. We have about 75 chains in the system most of the time. Been doing it this way for ten years now seems to work out ok. Some of the more experiened guys have started round filing but i'm not sure why. I have never asked them. I think Sthil chain is best ,the working corner is the most presice. But the filo-plate doesn't work well with Sthil so we will stick with oregon.

Now to cause trouble: What kind of wood needs the sharpest chain Hardwood or Softwood? and Why?

 

[RandyMac]

Now to cause trouble: What kind of wood needs the sharpest chain Hardwood or Softwood? and Why?

The joke forum is elsewhere.

 

[joesawer]

Now to cause trouble: What kind of wood needs the sharpest chain Hardwood or Softwood? and Why?

The joke forum is elsewhere.

Lol!
Thank You Mr. RandyMac!
I get so tired of hearing the sharpest chain wont work on the hardest woods.
And also tired of hearing how west coast ppl have no idea of what hardwood is.

 

[ru55ell]

I did not post the question about which kind of wood needs the sharpest chain as a joke. I know that there might be different opinions out there and wanted to understand why. It was an honest question.

 

[RandyMac]

It sounded asinine, all wood requires a sharp chain.

 

[ru55ell]

RandyMac

If you had read the original post that this question was part of you would seen that I might have some idea about the need for sharp chain and how to do it. But you and your west coast friends assumed that since I am from the east I was going to give you some BS on how hardwoods are harder to cut and that they some how take men with bigger balls as compared to cutting softwoods. When I wrote the question I was careful not try to put in any of my personal opinions of what I thought the answer to the question should be. Maybe I should have, but I didn't want to influence the comments from others.

So here is my answer to the question (you might be suprised) : All woods cut best with sharp chains, duh. But it takes a sharper chain to cut softwoods well, than it does hardwoods. Why? Because softwoods are soft and when the saw tooth tries to cut the fiber and the tooth is slightly dull instead of severing the fiber it pushes it forward bending it and finally breaking it. Because the wood is soft, not dense like hardwoods, There is not anything there to back up the fiber up to keep it from bending. When a slightly dull chain cuts softwood there will be little whiskers of fiber sticking out from the sides of the cut. Real sharp chains leave much fewer whiskers.
Hardwoods on the other hand being more dense can back up the fiber that is in contact with the tooth allowing it to be cleanly cut.
In practice this is evidenced in the situation when the chain is not cutting as fast as it can in softwood and the next wood that is cut is Beech or Rock Maple and the saw seems to be cutting good again. Put the saw back into White Pine and the saw seems dull again. In the New England mixed forest this switching goes on every day all day.
Also the west coast is home to most of the square grinders. Square grinding can make awesomely sharp cutters and fast cutting chains. People in the west are probably doing this because it is superior.
On the other hand there is logger "Slamm" from the east who only cuts hardwoods and who finds semichisel to work well for him. I doubt many on the west would even consider semichisel for softwood felling work because you just can't it awesome sharp.
So the softer the wood the sharper the chain needs to be for satisfactory preformance.

I too am sick of people making the asumption the somehow hardwoods a harder to cut, maybe with an axe, but not with a chain saw, and therefore hardwood cutters are some how better loggers than the softwood guys. Maybe if we historicaly refered to the tree types as conifer or deciduious then maybe this hardwood/softwood argument would have never happened. ( Oh the awesome power of words.) But then again not, because hardwoods are typically smaller than West Coast conifers The East Coasters would have to dream up something to compensate for the small size of their wood.


So my new friends we actually might be in agreement.

Russell

 

[Gologit]

And also tired of hearing how west coast ppl have no idea of what hardwood is.

True. We might not have the variety of hardwoods like those guys East of the Rockies but cutting Madrone, Live Oak, Black Oak, and dry almond sure fits my idea of cutting hardwood.

I did a job last year that was almost all Oak and Madrone. It was a selective cut, about forty acres worth and I was really glad to see the tail end of that little project. Lots of extra time spent on chain sharpening. Lots.

 

[hammerlogging]

True. We might not have the variety of hardwoods like those guys East of the Rockies but cutting Madrone, Live Oak, Black Oak, and dry almond sure fits my idea of cutting hardwood.

I did a job last year that was almost all Oak and Madrone. It was a selective cut, about forty acres worth and I was really glad to see the tail end of that little project. Lots of extra time spent on chain sharpening. Lots.

And I good men am looking forward to the 20 or so acres of tall straight slick planted white pine all around 22" cleacut on a 50 some acre clearcut I have coming up. Nice change.

 

[joesawer]

True. We might not have the variety of hardwoods like those guys East of the Rockies but cutting Madrone, Live Oak, Black Oak, and dry almond sure fits my idea of cutting hardwood.

I did a job last year that was almost all Oak and Madrone. It was a selective cut, about forty acres worth and I was really glad to see the tail end of that little project. Lots of extra time spent on chain sharpening. Lots.

I have cut professionally from coast to coast on the southern half of the country.
The California oaks are just as hard as the gulf states oaks and Missouri oaks and Oklahoma oaks.
Not as hard as locust and not as tough as hickory. But I find the harder and tougher the wood the slower it cuts and the more important an efficient chain is.
The most miserable toughest cutting conditions on a chain I have ever cut in has been in San Diego County where I cut mostly dead burned oak for nearly a year.
Clean southern hard woods are a dream to cut with a good square chisel chain.
Hickory and Post Oak do have abrasive bark and will knock the edge off any chain pretty quick.
I would like my chain to cut as fast as possible and through as much wood as possible before the edge stops self feeding.

 

[FSburt]

I have cut professionally from coast to coast on the southern half of the country.

Hey Joe can I ask if you use different cutting methods when your falling and bucking in the South than you do when your cutting in Cali? Just curious from your experience what is different cutting wise out there in case I get called out there to fall hazard trees for fires.

 

[hammerlogging]

No harhat, no sleeves, and no hinge. Other than that, its all the same.

 

[GASoline71]

You have to hold your tongue right when filing chains for hardwood. If not you... oh hell... why bother... I'm just a knuckledragger from the West Coast. I'm too stupid to know how to sharpen a chain for hardwoods.

Guess I'll just toss some extra bore cuts into my pack this week...

Gary

 

[mdavlee]

Gary you might need a case of wedges to go with the bore cuts.oke:

 

[joesawer]

I have cut professionally from coast to coast on the southern half of the country.

Hey Joe can I ask if you use different cutting methods when your falling and bucking in the South than you do when your cutting in Cali? Just curious from your experience what is different cutting wise out there in case I get called out there to fall hazard trees for fires.

For hazard trees I would say not much different at all, the law of gravity and physics apply everywhere I have been so far.
For production falling there is some difference simply because there is less volume and generally younger trees and in order to make production you rip them down kinda fast an loose.
The so called side band swarp cut or whatever it is called is common in the woods in the southeast. But it has no application in hazard tree falling. Lol
It would be hard to tell every thing about the different trees here.

The pines are very similar. The yellow pines are heavier and stronger than the white pines.

The oaks are similar but don't often have the canopy that sprawls all the way back to the ground the way the lower elevation western ones do.
But red oak varietys will chair much easier than eastern white oak. Eastern white oak is much stronger and more split resistant than western variety. But the Western variety has been introduced through nurseries and is common around old home places, So you need to be able to tell them apart.Lol

Hickory is just tough. The bark is hard and abrasive and the wood is tough and cut resistant. It is a pain even to mill. It is also split resistant but is so strong that a small hinge can chair.

When bucking watch hickory and white oak spring poles. They are vicious.

Locust is crazy hard and a good fast cutting chain will chatter in it. Watch the thorns they are razor sharp and will break off in you.

Sweetgum and yellow poplar cut fast and easy. And usually have a tall straight form like an evergreen. but watch the poplar it will bust and rail the whole length of the tree.

Eastern incense cedar cuts similar to incense cedar but smell much better. Maybe better than doug fir.

Lol the list goes on and on.

 

[Brushwacker]

Anybody else think Carlton chain is a bit brittle ? It seems I break a tooth off now and then, usually Carlton or Woodland Pro except when its chain I filed down small.
I favor Stihl Chain also usually RM or semi-chisel performs best for me but I buy full chisel or most brands when the price is right. I switch chainsaws and chain frequently through the week. Like skiptooth when cutting a lot of bigger wood, full comp for smaller wood. I cut mostly firewood and a few small loads of logs now and then. I get some jobs knocking down trees on ditchbanks now and then also.
I always thought Windsor chain was significantly softer then others but it has worked very well and files easiar. Most the Oregon seems to stretch more but it works well for me. Using 3/8 .050 and .058 on most my chainsaws but I use some .325 on smaller saws mainly because I got a good deal on some bars and sprockets. I wouldn't mind having a .404 25" bar for my 660 if I catch a great deal on 1. Selling firewood mostly its very easy to spend the would be profit.