Scrounging Firewood (and other stuff)

[panolo]

What people don't understand about gasoline is.....87 octane will produce more power.....higher octane gas as it goes up in numbers actually burns slower....so in your higher compression engines...higher octane means slower burns creating less detonation....

In theory yes you are correct that all gas contains the same amount of chemical energy. With the higher flash point you are able to generate more power by having a smoother transfer through the combustion process. Most new cars can self adjust so you don't hear the knocking like you used to with lower octane fuels. In theory the higher octane fuels create a cleaner and more efficient thermodynamic transfer of energy. Typically you find at a higher octane the combustion occurs very smoothly with little to no pre- ignition. If you run anything super charged or turbo'ed the difference can be very noticeable. Same applies to higher compression equipment. One of the other benefit of running a higher octane fuel is it tends to be a "cleaner" fuel. Ethanol breakdowns cause failures.

I've done a ton of super chargers and turbo installs and tuning on SxS's, snowmobiles, watercraft, motorcycles, etc and the differences in octane is very noticeable when tuning these units on a dyno.

 

[svk]

In theory yes you are correct that all gas contains the same amount of chemical energy. With the higher flash point you are able to generate more power by having a smoother transfer through the combustion process. Most new cars can self adjust so you don't hear the knocking like you used to with lower octane fuels. In theory the higher octane fuels create a cleaner and more efficient thermodynamic transfer of energy. Typically you find at a higher octane the combustion occurs very smoothly with little to no pre- ignition. If you run anything super charged or turbo'ed the difference can be very noticeable. Same applies to higher compression equipment. One of the other benefit of running a higher octane fuel is it tends to be a "cleaner" fuel. Ethanol breakdowns cause failures.

I've done a ton of super chargers and turbo installs and tuning on SxS's, snowmobiles, watercraft, motorcycles, etc and the differences in octane is very noticeable when tuning these units on a dyno.

Not disagreeing...just wondering if you’ve noticed this too: my understanding is for a stock “standard” performance engine there is no difference between running regular fuel versus high octane. But once you get into higher performance, more octane becomes necessary and going from premium to race fuel just ads more power.

 

[svk]

If anyone is interested in trying out a square ground chain I have a few for sale over in the trading post. All were silvery ground by AP before he got out of the square grinding business. They can now be maintained with a square file like guys like mustang mike do.

I’ll give you scrounges an extra good deal!

 

[Philbert]

Give us a 'square' deal?

Going back to round?

Philbert

 

[panolo]

Not disagreeing...just wondering if you’ve noticed this too: my understanding is for a stock “standard” performance engine there is no difference between running regular fuel versus high octane. But once you get into higher performance, more octane becomes necessary and going from premium to race fuel just ads more power.

The easy answer is yes and no. If it is clean fuel with no breakdown or ethanol and clear air additives than yes you are correct. The no factor comes in the form of ethanol and other additives. In many instances the fuel that goes to Holiday and Kwik Trip comes from the same refinery. The difference is in what is dumped in to make it blue planet or top tier. I get 1.3-2.2 mpg better with BP fuel than what I get with Kwik Trip fuel. It's both 87 octane but the KT fuel contains either a higher dose of ethanol or additive. So usually what means is the efficiency of the power transferred by the combustion is less with KT fuel.

IMHO ethanol is a created subsidy to help farmers. It has no benefit in efficiency or longevity when it comes to combustion engines. When my 84' buick skyhawk was able to get 41 MPG but a new vehicle with a smaller motor is only able to get 31-32 mpg, emissions on these vehicles are not the only factor. Fuel plays a large part in it.

People can say what they want but fuels with ethanol break down much faster when left untreated. Once those fuels break down it loses it's octane and burns very inconsistently. Losing that explosiveness also correlates with a tremendous loss of energy. Now let it sit for longer and the ethanol separates from the fuel. In most FI vehicles you may notice a reduce in power but once you start figuring units with smaller injectors or lower pressure you get issues with injector plugging, fouled plugs, etc. In carb machines you get instances of plugged jets, deposits on diaphragms, and corrosion on parts like needle valves. Realistically ethanol is just corn alcohol that hates being bonded to gas. So once it starts to separate you have water(ethanol) and fuel. They have a different weight, buoyancy, and flow rate.

Sorry for rambling.

 

[nighthunter]

It's like Christmas came early here thanks to the present @LondonNeil sent me, so I'll be it going to a nice little project for me as soon as I order bearings, seals and gaskets for the bottom end

 

[chipper1]

IMHO ethanol is a created subsidy to help farmers.

That's exactly what they want you to believe .

 

[James Miller]

What are your thoughts on e85? I wouldn't run it in a daily but iv seen 60-70 horse power gains on an old civic hatch with a turbo GSR swap. 11:1 compression and 18psi stock long block turned to 9500. On 93 it maid 322 and on e85 it maid mid 380s.

 

[Cowboy254]

It's like Christmas came early here thanks to the present @LondonNeil sent me, so I'll be it going to a nice little project for me as soon as I order bearings, seals and gaskets for the bottom endView attachment 658829

Did he chuck in the purple and black truck for free as well?

 

[chipper1]

What are your thoughts on e85? I wouldn't run it in a daily but iv seen 60-70 horse power gains on an old civic hatch with a turbo GSR swap. 11:1 compression and 18psi stock long block turned to 9500. On 93 it maid 322 and on e85 it maid mid 380s.

E85 let's you tune a high compression engine like your running race fuel which means more timing, at 11:1 93 is a bit low of an octane and will detonate at very low ignition advance, which means a lot less performance.
One thing most don't take into consideration with an e85 car is how much extra fuel you burn which means you will need bigger lines, pump, injectors for a performance ride, and that much of the gains seen because you get the fuel cheaper go right out the window with your mpg.
Sounds like a fun ride for sure, how long did it last at 18psi .

 

[Cowboy254]

Getting the fire ready for an Aussie BBQ!

First to cut down a couple of trees

Then pile it up and light it up and sit back and drink 3ctns of beer whilst waiting for the snow to fly.

Mind you don't get creosote burning all that green pine . TBH, I probably would have scrounged the trunk (at least if it was right next door) to help burn down my big hardwood coals. However, I have come up with another way that is working well, particularly for the early mornings where there is a large amount of still hot charcoal left from the overnight burn. I push it all into a row in the middle and put a round on either side of it and then a quartered round suspended between the rounds above the charcoal pile. The air intake in my heater flows down the glass then towards the back then up then forward in a rolling fashion which is funnelling the air under the suspended piece over the coals.


It's burning them down really well so I'm not accumulating lots of unburnt charcoal in the firebox. The key though is having the right sized and shaped bits for this approach. Might keep that in mind for future scrounges.

 

[nighthunter]

Did he chuck in the purple and black truck for free as well?

that's my pedal tractor, for when I need to collect a scrounge and my real 1 won't start

 

[James Miller]

E85 let's you tune a high compression engine like your running race fuel which means more timing, at 11:1 93 is a bit low of an octane and will detonate at very low ignition advance, which means a lot less performance.
One thing most don't take into consideration with an e85 car is how much extra fuel you burn which means you will need bigger lines, pump, injectors for a performance ride, and that much of the gains seen because you get the fuel cheaper go right out the window with your mpg.
Sounds like a fun ride for sure, how long did it last at 18psi .

If your running e85 you probably aren't worried about mileage . Figure they make about 150 to the wheels stock so well over double the factory power rev limited at 10k shift at 9500. Everyday boost at 14 the 18 psi was more of a kill tune. I got a year out of that motor. Rings started to go and I sold it for more then I had in it. 2200 pounds on the scale at the green bean plant and near 400 wheel it moved out OK. Also changed a few opinions on people thinking Honda's can't go from a dig on the street.

 

[LondonNeil]

The easy answer is yes and no. If it is clean fuel with no breakdown or ethanol and clear air additives than yes you are correct. The no factor comes in the form of ethanol and other additives. In many instances the fuel that goes to Holiday and Kwik Trip comes from the same refinery. The difference is in what is dumped in to make it blue planet or top tier. I get 1.3-2.2 mpg better with BP fuel than what I get with Kwik Trip fuel. It's both 87 octane but the KT fuel contains either a higher dose of ethanol or additive. So usually what means is the efficiency of the power transferred by the combustion is less with KT fuel.

IMHO ethanol is a created subsidy to help farmers. It has no benefit in efficiency or longevity when it comes to combustion engines. When my 84' buick skyhawk was able to get 41 MPG but a new vehicle with a smaller motor is only able to get 31-32 mpg, emissions on these vehicles are not the only factor. Fuel plays a large part in it.

People can say what they want but fuels with ethanol break down much faster when left untreated. Once those fuels break down it loses it's octane and burns very inconsistently. Losing that explosiveness also correlates with a tremendous loss of energy. Now let it sit for longer and the ethanol separates from the fuel. In most FI vehicles you may notice a reduce in power but once you start figuring units with smaller injectors or lower pressure you get issues with injector plugging, fouled plugs, etc. In carb machines you get instances of plugged jets, deposits on diaphragms, and corrosion on parts like needle valves. Realistically ethanol is just corn alcohol that hates being bonded to gas. So once it starts to separate you have water(ethanol) and fuel. They have a different weight, buoyancy, and flow rate.

Sorry for rambling.

I agree generally but just to point out a couple of bits that don't come across very well from your post.
1. all petrol (gasoline) has the same calorific value, high octane has no more oomph.
2. The higher the ron, the 'LESS explosive' it is, i.e the less it will auto detonate.
3. Higher RON fuel allows tiing to be advanced without autodetonation aka knocking or pinking. KNocking is bad, it will damage an engine, but advance timing generally gives more efficiency and power. So premium fuel allows for more power IF the engine is advanced (auto tune will advance the timing I assume? cars definitely do, car EMUs are constantly striving to advance, but have knock sensors and retard again if knock is detected. fill a car (like mine, a modern turbo powered semi performance engine) with standard fuel and I notice it knock and run rough/won't rev and pick up, then it settles quickly but I'll get may 10% less mpg. fil it with premium again and it will take 3 or 4 tank fulls to slowly advance to its max again.
4. Ethanol increases (yep really) RON/Octane.
5. Ethanol absorbs water, if it absorbs enough it separates out as a gel to the bottom of the tank, strpping the RON from the remainng fuel and sludging the lines and carb. Keep the tank sealed and water away and it can't happen very fast.
6. ethanol also attacks and softens some rubbers - bad for lines and carb diagphrams
7. fuel also contains aromatics (benzene ring based compounds). These oxidise over time and form gums and varishes which block carb jets etc. Star tron (which i also use ) etc work by slowing the oxidation process. Star tron also claims to solve ethanol problems....err.....no idea what chemistry it claims to use there.
8. final problem with old fuel is simply the volatile components evaporating. the really volatile stuff is small enough molecules it will diffuse through plastic cans, so seal and store in metal cans. loss of volatiles jut makes it harder to start a cold saw, but still runs ok.

 

[Bobby Kirbos]

And, making ethanol generates more carbon output than burning the gallon of gasoline it is replacing.
If it's about reducing dependence on middle east oil, fine. If it's about saving the planet, piss off.

 

[LondonNeil]

It's like Christmas came early here thanks to the present @LondonNeil sent me, so I'll be it going to a nice little project for me as soon as I order bearings, seals and gaskets for the bottom endView attachment 658829

Gasket? Gasket?! check the squish first? 0.5mm and good to go without? you'll have noticed the muffler already has no innereds and a large hole on the side. I'm sure mike or someone can advise on shaving a bit off the flywheel key to advance the timing too. you do realise I'm gong to enjoy this build vicariously don't you? where did i put that timing wheel and dremel......

 

[rarefish383]

Did he chuck in the purple and black truck for free as well?

I think that's how he shipped it there?

 

[JustJeff]

Split for an hour tonight as I did last night. Enjoying a non alchy beer as the sun sets over the scrounge pile.

 

[Logger nate]

Mind you don't get creosote burning all that green pine . TBH, I probably would have scrounged the trunk (at least if it was right next door) to help burn down my big hardwood coals. However, I have come up with another way that is working well, particularly for the early mornings where there is a large amount of still hot charcoal left from the overnight burn. I push it all into a row in the middle and put a round on either side of it and then a quartered round suspended between the rounds above the charcoal pile. The air intake in my heater flows down the glass then towards the back then up then forward in a rolling fashion which is funnelling the air under the suspended piece over the coals.

View attachment 658838
It's burning them down really well so I'm not accumulating lots of unburnt charcoal in the firebox. The key though is having the right sized and shaped bits for this approach. Might keep that in mind for future scrounges.

That hard wood sounds like such pain having to deal with all that unburnt charcoal.... and stuff . Sure glad I don’t have to deal with all that stuff, feel sorry for you guys that only have hard wood to burn .

 

[Ryan A]

Delivered and stacked a rack for a customer today. One of the few who buys in the summer. Otherwise it's such a demand in the winter when the cold hits and my prices go up. $90 in my pocket from scrounged oak and locust.