Scrounging Firewood (and other stuff)

[MustangMike]

Nate, your scenic pics are incredible, thanks for sharing!

And, FYI, MechanicMatt recently acquired a used Marlin Lever Gun in 45-70. We have fingers crossed it will be a shooter!

 

[JustJeff]

Yeah Roger that! Unbelievably powerful and tough! With a pain threshold that makes a pit bull look like a Sissy when it comes to withstanding pain!

If you're not familiar with the American Bull Terrier breed of dog? Trust me! That's saying a lot about a bears sensitivity to pain!

Unfortunately we had young male nusance bear in our small rural community this Spring. Causing problems and becoming to comfortable around people much to often. Four of us hunted him every day for a week all at different times. After my sixth evening bear watch/hunt. I was the unfortunate one that got the first and last shot to terminate. When looking at him through the cross hairs at thirty yards while he was standing on his hinds looking right back at me. The only thing in my mind was "Man I really hope this is the right bear because I don't want to kill a bear that's just passing through not bothering anyone!" By the way we were looking at each other. He didn't really give me much of a choice at that distance!

It did end up being the problem bear, so it wasn't all bad. A three and a half year old young male. The neighbors and I guessed his weight between 400 and 500 pounds. He is a small Kodiak bear by size standards. Im 6'4" 230 and in pretty fair shape for my age! and his fore arm was as big around as my thigh and rock solid mussel!!! His front fore leg! Not his hind quarter or shoulder. His fore leg! Also, not firm like the hind quarter of a deer, beef, dog, or even a race horse! I mean heavy and solid like I've never felt in an animal! Even though he was dead, you could just feel his power!!! I really can't explain it!
View attachment 1000238And hes just a little guy! View attachment 1000239

Holy smokes and he was carrying a gun!

 

[djg james]

The discoloration of your cutters and the burrs on your links indicate a problem!

Chain too tight?

Chain run dull?

Lack of oil?

I think he opened the gullets just fine, but ID what the problem is causing your chain to do this.

Chain definitely not too tight. Sometimes I have to tighten it up because of stretch.

Maybe run a little dull. The I usually stop and sharpen.

Sometimes it seems like there is a lack of oil because the bar gets hot. Not all the time, though. The oiler is set on max from day one and is using oil. Inspection of the oil hole on the saw and bar are clear and open. and oil is free flowing w/o bar on it when revved. That's why my interest was peaked when someone mentioned about installing a Magnum olier on their saw. Don't know if that's an option on a 038.

 

[chipper1]

Thanks, a lot to digest. I thought the wheel was too narrow and it did look like he burned them a little. However, I watched and didn't think he was pressing hard or going fast. Relative I know, especially for someone without any experience.

I see you corrected your interpretation of what I said about the bar burr.

So, looking at your chain, does it look like a new chain? Not really.

I'll look into those two tools

There is a lot to sharpening, but once you learn to sharpen one size chain, that learning transfers to the other sizes. From there tuning chains to a specific species of wood or frozen wood, a different powered saw, or even your personal cutting preferences becomes just a few file strokes away, whether that's with a round, beveled, or a flat file .
It is relative lol.
Most the guys I know will tap the cutters multiple times with the grinding wheel, this allows the cutter to cool slightly between grinding.
I have seen 3/8 chains done with a small wheel cut very well, but if the person grinding them goes in too deep (farther than what it takes to make a "C") it will make more of "J" and a standard round file will not fit well into it for hand filing.

Yep, don't hit the sides of the cutters with a grinder to remove the burr lol.

In Nate's picture of how he sharpens he shows a picture of a perferd brand 2 in 1, I think they may make them for stihl, but I'm not sure.
The bummer about the 2 in 1 and the roller guides are that they are specific to the chain size, and in the case of the roller guides, there is also a special one for the husky x-cut chains that differs from the standard 3/8 chains (I'm not sure if they have different ones for the .325, lp/picco x-cut chains).
If I get a min I'll have my boy film me sharpening a cutter or two and try to give a few tips on how I sharpen, it's important to remember that while one persons technique works well for them; but two people can arrive at the same place by taking a different path, whether that means with different tools or different techniques.

Sorry I didn't do a search first. I'll try a flat file first Then maybe one of those tools.

Not offended. If you put it in a vise it's fairly easy to with a "sharp" file .

Just a few notes on the grinder comments. Grinders do not overheat cutters if used correctly. Guys with little patience or understanding try to use them like a chop saw and apply a lot of pressure.

The abrasive also dulls with use, and needs to be ‘dressed’ periodically to expose fresh edges. I lightly dress my wheels once per chain loop.

Put together, aggressive grinding with dull abrasive is like forcing a saw to cut with a dull chain.

If cutters are overheated (‘grinder hardened’) they can usually be made fileable again with some light grinding through the hardened layer. The chains are not necessarily ‘ruined’.

Philbert

Many guys will grind chains with a lot of oil on them, if they don't dress them often they will burn cutters too.

Chain definitely not too tight. Sometimes I have to tighten it up because of stretch.

Maybe run a little dull. The I usually stop and sharpen.

Sometimes it seems like there is a lack of oil because the bar gets hot. Not all the time, though. The oiler is set on max from day one and is using oil. Inspection of the oil hole on the saw and bar are clear and open. and oil is free flowing w/o bar on it when revved. That's why my interest was peaked when someone mentioned about installing a Magnum olier on their saw. Don't know if that's an option on a 038.

I tighten my chains tighter than most, and I don't have a problem with my bars or chains.
A properly sharpened and tuned chain will run cooler with much less oil.

 

[chipper1]

Holy smokes and he was carrying a gun!

Everything carries in Alaska lol.

 

[JustJeff]

Been running my little crapsman 38cc saw this weekend. Was down at my mom's yesterday where we pruned up an overgrown spruce. It looked much better after and inspired my wife to kick my butt into gear and trim up our pines which used to branch from the ground up. Lawnmower pic is my poor excuse for a before pic. I'd been debating trimming these limbs for a couple years. I'm happy we finally did it, I like how much cleaner it looks and should be way better on the weedeating. The brush pile is impressive!

 

[GrizG]

They'll be fine after a couple light grindings, it doesn't usually go very deep.
Sad they do that to them though.
I just went through some a couple days ago trying to find a 20x.325, 78dl, not the 80dl of which I have 4 new chains sitting on the shelf . I went thru quite a few, then when I was about ready to give up, I found a freshly sharpened one hanging on my vice with a decent bar on it too . I don't often use 325 on a 20", so it wasn't something I had well organized, not that much of my stuff is, but I can usually quickly find what I'm looking for.
Here's one of the too sharpen piles, guessing it will only grow until next winter .
Maybe I should send them to @sean donato , shouldn't take more than 15hrs giving 15 min each, and I know he's got lots of spare time .
View attachment 1000564

I imagine that would work fine if I were inclined to do it. I've got an Oregon grinder. Bought it new a few years back thinking I'd even out the tooth length on my chains... After using it for a while I abandoned it and went back to hand filing. This as the chains didn't cut any better but they sure did lose potential life by grinding to the shortest tooth. That, and I prefer the soothing sound of hand filing to the sound of a grinder... It also didn't really save me any time unless I rocked/steeled a chain and needed to take the teeth back a lot. Rocks and embedded metal are common where I cut so it happens...

I typically do 2-6 chains per filing session... sometimes as many as 10. The process goes reasonably fast and sometimes I surprise myself by just how quickly I'm done with one side of an 84 or 117 DL chain. Once I understood the process, and what to look for as I'm sharpening, I could do it with certainty and have excellent results. Granted if I was the "chain guy" for a tree service a higher end grinder would probably make sense and I probably wouldn't care as much after a while as it would become a dull job.

 

[GrizG]

Here's a shot of the resharpened chain. See how the gullet is scalloped like too narrow of stone was used. Maybe it doesn't matter. The chain cut (noodled) like it was almost new, but not quite there. I may take my 7/32" file and file the gullet even and then see how it cuts.

Also, I've noticed a burr all around the bar on both sides. Can I simply lightly grind if off with an angle grinder or do I need a special tool?

Regarding bar dressing. Draw file the bar to remove the burr and flatten the edge. It only takes a few minutes... Use an 8", 10" or 12" single cut mill file. Even a raker file can be used but I prefer a larger file for this task. It doesn't have to be anything special.... a Stanley file is fine.

 

[turnkey4099]

Alm

This was a new guy to me. He's been doing it on the side for 5 years. He's my age so I was more inclined to trust him. It's hard to find someone locally to do a proper job. At the local farm store, the kids do the sharpening and I'm pretty sure they don't know, or care, what they are doing.

And I too do all my own sharpening, by hand. I'm not the greatest at it and I thought the rakers needed to be touched up.

This was a new guy to me. He's been doing it on the side for 5 years. He's my age so I was more inclined to trust him. It's hard to find someone locally to do a proper job. At the local farm store, the kids do the sharpening and I'm pretty sure they don't know, or care, what they are doing.

And I too do all my own sharpening, by hand. I'm not the greatest at it and I thought the rakers needed to be touched up.

Almost every shop I have taken a chain to has returned at least on chain with the teeth hardened and cannot be filed. I haven't had a shop sharpen one for me for many years now. It only takes about 10 minutes for me to file one.

 

[chipper1]

The progressive "smart climate" folks around here would go nuts if the large sheltered workshop organization in the area made something like that... it's okay for them to assemble gift boxes of booze for a local distributer though.

I missed this post earlier I guess.
I consider myself progressive, as long as we're talking about filing rakers .

I imagine that would work fine if I were inclined to do it. I've got an Oregon grinder. Bought it new a few years back thinking I'd even out the tooth length on my chains... After using it for a while I abandoned it and went back to hand filing. This as the chains didn't cut any better but they sure did lose potential life by grinding to the shortest tooth. That, and I prefer the soothing sound of hand filing to the sound of a grinder... It also didn't really save me any time unless I rocked/steeled a chain and needed to take the teeth back a lot. Rocks and embedded metal are common where I cut so it happens...

I typically do 2-6 chains per filing session... sometimes as many as 10. The process goes reasonably fast and sometimes I surprise myself by just how quickly I'm done with one side of an 84 or 117 DL chain. Once I understood the process, and what to look for as I'm sharpening, I could do it with certainty and have excellent results. Granted if I was the "chain guy" for a tree service a higher end grinder would probably make sense and I probably wouldn't care as much after a while as it would become a dull job.

I don't typically grind to the worst cutter, as you said, that wastes a lot of chain. I also do not remove much at a time. I usually look a chain over real quick to see which cutters are the best(longest), then I set up to only remove a little off that cutter and run the chain around then that side hitting all the cutters it gets, then I advance the stop forward a touch and do that again until I'm getting most of the cutters, all the time counting how many turns I've adjusted the stop in. Then on my last pass I will mark any cutters that need taken back further with a green sharpie and then I make one more pass to get those, sometimes I have to hit those again. On a real bad chain I will make 4-5 passes around per side. Then I will hit the rakers with a file and a progressive gauge like the husky version. Sometimes I just file the shortest cutters rakers, then one of the average ones and throw it on the raker grinder(especially if I'm doing more than one chain). if they are all equal length, then I hit a raker on each side and put the chain on the raker grinder. Similarly, I make multiple passes when using the raker grinder when doing a chain I've removed a lot of material on, I just mark the rakers I file with the green sharpie. Yes I like my green sharpie, does that make me green lol. There's really no reason to take them down to the worse cutter, sometimes I'd loose a third of a chain doing that. If you are sharpening for customers, you can loose a customer quick by removing enough material off the worse cutter . Think about how many times you've heard someone say "I took my chains in to be sharpened and they removed half the cutter" .
Touching up a chain with the grinder takes me a little more time than filing them, if you include removing them and then putting them back on, so I only grind damaged chains, chains that are not on saws, and chains I'm converting to square.

Honestly, with my elbows I wouldn't want to file that many chains in a session. That being said, I've started with a new or almost new chain when flush cutting stumps, and worn(filed) a chain down to a point I didn't feel it was worth hitting it again as after that it would be on the witness marks. It makes tossing a chain much easier when you know you've gotten paid for it already .

I'm thinking that maybe I should be titling my posts, that way guys who want to get caught up can just skip the "Sharpening" posts .

 

[sean donato]

I missed this post earlier I guess.
I consider myself progressive, as long as we're talking about filing rakers .

I don't typically grind to the worst cutter, as you said, that wastes a lot of chain. I also do not remove much at a time. I usually look a chain over real quick to see which cutters are the best(longest), then I set up to only remove a little off that cutter and run the chain around then that side hitting all the cutters it gets, then I advance the stop forward a touch and do that again until I'm getting most of the cutters, all the time counting how many turns I've adjusted the stop in. Then on my last pass I will mark any cutters that need taken back further with a green sharpie and then I make one more pass to get those, sometimes I have to hit those again. On a real bad chain I will make 4-5 passes around per side. Then I will hit the rakers with a file and a progressive gauge like the husky version. Sometimes I just file the shortest cutters rakers, then one of the average ones and throw it on the raker grinder(especially if I'm doing more than one chain). if they are all equal length, then I hit a raker on each side and put the chain on the raker grinder. Similarly, I make multiple passes when using the raker grinder when doing a chain I've removed a lot of material on, I just mark the rakers I file with the green sharpie. Yes I like my green sharpie, does that make me green lol. There's really no reason to take them down to the worse cutter, sometimes I'd loose a third of a chain doing that. If you are sharpening for customers, you can loose a customer quick by removing enough material off the worse cutter . Think about how many times you've heard someone say "I took my chains in to be sharpened and they removed half the cutter" .
Touching up a chain with the grinder takes me a little more time than filing them, if you include removing them and then putting them back on, so I only grind damaged chains, chains that are not on saws, and chains I'm converting to square.

Honestly, with my elbows I wouldn't want to file that many chains in a session. That being said, I've started with a new or almost new chain when flush cutting stumps, and worn(filed) a chain down to a point I didn't feel it was worth hitting it again as after that it would be on the witness marks. It makes tossing a chain much easier when you know you've gotten paid for it already .

I'm thinking that maybe I should be titling my posts, that way guys who want to get caught up can just skip the "Sharpening" posts .

I do the same thing weather on the grinder or by hand, If I took every tooth back to exactly the same length I'd go through chains like crazy. Depth Guage being set right per tooth is very important.

 

[Logger nate]

Nate, your scenic pics are incredible, thanks for sharing!

And, FYI, MechanicMatt recently acquired a used Marlin Lever Gun in 45-70. We have fingers crossed it will be a shooter!

Thanks Mike.
Oh cool! That’s great, hopefully it’s a good one. The one I had was a very good shooter, especially for a lever gun, not uncommon to have 2 holes touching with a 3 shot group at 100 yds.

 

[ValleyForge]

Stump day….

 

[MustangMike]

I tighten my chains tighter than most, and I don't have a problem with my bars or chains.

If you OVER tighten your chains enough, your straps will look like that ... don't ask me how I know this!

I like them snug also, hate thrown chains, but don't OVER tighten!

 

[MustangMike]

Oh cool! That’s great, hopefully it’s a good one. The one I had was a very good shooter, especially for a lever gun, not uncommon to have 2 holes touching with a 3 shot group at 100 yds.

I guess since his sister and I both have lever guns in 348 Winchester he felt he needed a more powerful lever gun!

For those who don't know, the 348 Winchester was made by necking down a 50-110, it is bigger diameter than a 45-70.

 

[Be Stihl]

Here's a shot of the resharpened chain. See how the gullet is scalloped like too narrow of stone was used. Maybe it doesn't matter. The chain cut (noodled) like it was almost new, but not quite there. I may take my 7/32" file and file the gullet even and then see how it cuts.
View attachment 1000488

Also, I've noticed a burr all around the bar on both sides. Can I simply lightly grind if off with an angle grinder or do I need a special tool?

Flat mill-bastard file will work great.

 

[GrizG]

I missed this post earlier I guess.
I consider myself progressive, as long as we're talking about filing rakers .

I don't typically grind to the worst cutter, as you said, that wastes a lot of chain. I also do not remove much at a time. I usually look a chain over real quick to see which cutters are the best(longest), then I set up to only remove a little off that cutter and run the chain around then that side hitting all the cutters it gets, then I advance the stop forward a touch and do that again until I'm getting most of the cutters, all the time counting how many turns I've adjusted the stop in. Then on my last pass I will mark any cutters that need taken back further with a green sharpie and then I make one more pass to get those, sometimes I have to hit those again. On a real bad chain I will make 4-5 passes around per side. Then I will hit the rakers with a file and a progressive gauge like the husky version. Sometimes I just file the shortest cutters rakers, then one of the average ones and throw it on the raker grinder(especially if I'm doing more than one chain). if they are all equal length, then I hit a raker on each side and put the chain on the raker grinder. Similarly, I make multiple passes when using the raker grinder when doing a chain I've removed a lot of material on, I just mark the rakers I file with the green sharpie. Yes I like my green sharpie, does that make me green lol. There's really no reason to take them down to the worse cutter, sometimes I'd loose a third of a chain doing that. If you are sharpening for customers, you can loose a customer quick by removing enough material off the worse cutter . Think about how many times you've heard someone say "I took my chains in to be sharpened and they removed half the cutter" .
Touching up a chain with the grinder takes me a little more time than filing them, if you include removing them and then putting them back on, so I only grind damaged chains, chains that are not on saws, and chains I'm converting to square.

Honestly, with my elbows I wouldn't want to file that many chains in a session. That being said, I've started with a new or almost new chain when flush cutting stumps, and worn(filed) a chain down to a point I didn't feel it was worth hitting it again as after that it would be on the witness marks. It makes tossing a chain much easier when you know you've gotten paid for it already .

I'm thinking that maybe I should be titling my posts, that way guys who want to get caught up can just skip the "Sharpening" posts .

That process seems to have a lot of redundancy... i.e., examining each tooth repeatedly and grinding individual teeth on multiple passes. Hand filing I generally touch a tooth once and go on to the next one until a side is done and then I do the other side. I don't mark anything as I can tell by looking at the teeth whether they've been filed. Upon a final inspection I may touch a tooth or two again if it doesn't look like I got the tip well but it is a rare exception to the "touch it once" approach. Anyhow, as long as we all get to the same final result it doesn't much matter how we get there as long as it's repeatable!

 

[svk]

Hi all.

Got home Saturday night. Sunday morning I had to go pick up the big dogs from the kennel (we took the little girl with us) then spent most of the day working on projects.

Picked up my refurbed wood hauler trailer yesterday from my friends as he had done sone welding for me. This trailer has hauled hundreds of cords of wood over the years and the old 2 foot high sides made out of 1” square tubing set into stake pockets more or less rotted away. In addition the frame had a couple of cracks. We now have integral sides made out of 2 inch tubing that are 3 feet high so I could easily haul a cord of dry wood here. Obviously wouldn’t want to haul a cord of green hardwood because it would be getting pretty heavy. Just need to scrounge some plywood now. I powerwashed the decking yesterday too so once the new sides are on, we’ll paint the whole thing.

 

[MustangMike]

Happy Independence Day everyone. Hopefully, we all remember the sacrifices that have been made by others to give us our freedoms.

As my Dad used to say ... "Be grateful you don't have to wake up in the morning saying Hiel Hitler"!

 

[svk]

Sum ting Wong…thought you guys would like these pics.

Tell tale aluminum shavings under the hood of this 15 horse Johnson yielded a screw that backed out of the stator and rattled around under the fly wheel for a while. Amazingly it still ran…actually came in due to carb issues. I’ve got two other motors of this family so it will donate parts to them going forward.

I needed the prop for one of the other motors as that motor had spun its hub… New replacement props for these little guys are up to 65 bucks now. I had paid $100 for this motor in the spring (which included a cruise tank) and it worked for half the summer for us so I’d say it was a good investment.