Scrounging Firewood (and other stuff)

[djg james]

Well I couldn't sleep so I got up early this morning and thought I'd post a couple pics of some severely worn chains. Worn to the point of becoming dangerous. In fact, one of them parted on me the other day while making a face cut!

View attachment 1015949View attachment 1015950View attachment 1015951

Now I haven't parted many chain's! Only two that I can remember, maybe three. This one parted at the splice. Possibly due to too much pressure to fast when I spun it, but Im not sure. Im thinking it's more likely due to the insane torque and horsepower my Modified 661 makes!!! Anyways, on a more serious note. If you look closely. You can see the thinning of the drive links. This is 3/8 .50g, I typically always run .63g but with the shortage of light weight bars right now. All I could find at the time in 32" was Stihl LW bars in .50g so I took what I could get. Begger's can't be choosers! However, as you can clearly see. The drive link isn't what parted. The side strap did. Witch would also be the same thickness on a 3/8 .63g chain.

This is a different chain that hasn't parted "YET", and it won't because I've chosen to stop running it before it dose part! View attachment 1015952View attachment 1015953
If you look closely at the drivers and straps on this chian. You'll see a tremendous amount of ware compared to a new chain.
Just something to be aware of.

Also, the bar is Stihl in great shape. Witch tells me its getting plenty of oil, and it should be because I've got the oiler cranked all the way open!

And yes, I know the gullets need removing. I've already removed them twice on both chains! I will take them out again if and before fir some reason. I end up using these chains as back ups.
"If" I run out of good chain, and can't get another spool. Hopefully That won't happen!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!

OK, I'm not a professional, so educate me. What are you calling chain wear? The silver tips on the drivers causing the chain to sway side to side inside the bar groove? Looks like there is a lot of tooth left on those chains.

And why are you removing the gullet? I thought round files are suppose to cut gullets in chains. Never seen a sharpen before like yous, but then, as I said, I'm not a pro.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

OK, I'm not a professional, so educate me. What are you calling chain wear? The silver tips on the drivers causing the chain to sway side to side inside the bar groove? Looks like there is a lot of tooth left on those chains.

And why are you removing the gullet? I thought round files are suppose to cut gullets in chains. Never seen a sharpen before like yous, but then, as I said, I'm not a pro.

The drive links are thinning and some of the drivers have the hook worn down that catches the wheel or "sprocket". Also, some of the side straps (including some of the cutter straps) are burred and waring down too close to the rivet bearing.

Its a square tuned or " square ground" chain. The gullets need removing every third or fourth grind. If the gullets aren't removed? The chain's cutts slower because the kerf waste or "saw dust" Doesn't clear the cutter fast enough. A round fill or round grinder takes the gullets out every time the cutter is filled or ground. If that makes any sense?

 

[djg james]

The drive links are thinning and some of the drivers have the hook worn down that catches the wheel or "sprocket". Also, some of the side straps (including some of the cutter straps) are burred and waring down too close to the rivet bearing.

Its a square tuned or " square ground" chain. The gullets need removing every third or fourth grind. If the gullets aren't removed? The chain's cutts slower because the kerf waste or "saw dust" Doesn't clear the cutter fast enough. A round fill or round grinder takes the gullets out every time the cutter is filled or ground. If that makes any sense?

Thanks, yes it does. What's the advantages of a square ground chain?

 

[Kodiak Kid]

Thanks, yes it does. What's the advantages of a square ground chain?

Well Sir. IMOP a square tuned chain. Cutts faster, smoother and stays sharper longer than a round tuned chain. However, if you're running a full compliment round chain vs. a full skip square chain. The full comp round will probably cut smoother. As far as faster and sharper longer? I wouldn't know. I've never done that test. Also, most all my experience is in conifer. Things may be different in hard woods. Chipper1(Brett), Logger Nate, Sierra Rider, MustangMike, SeanDenato, Squareground and quite a few others on this thread can tell you much about saw chain. They are all very knowledgeable Sawyers! In fact, I think there's even a thread on this Forum that focuses on saw chains and all the different tuning methods and reasoning behind them. If there isn't? There should be! Round and Square tunes both have their advantages and disadvantages IMOP bud!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!

 

[chipper1]

Well Sir. IMOP a square tuned chain. Cutts faster, smoother and stays sharper longer than a round tuned chain. However, if you're running a full compliment round chain vs. a full skip square chain. The full comp round will probably cut smoother. As far as faster and sharper longer? I wouldn't know. I've never done that test. Also, most all my experience is in conifer. Things may be different in hard woods. Chipper1(Brett), Sierra Rider, MustangMike, SeanDenato, Squareground and quite a few others on this thread can tell you much about saw chain. They are all very knowledgeable Sawyers! In fact, I think there's even a thread on this Forum that focuses on saw chains and all the different tuning methods and reasoning behind them. If there isn't? There should be! Round and Square tunes both have their advantages and disadvantages IMOP bud!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!

Never heard it called square tuned, just square ground or filed. I tune or dial a chain in for whatever species or job I'm doing as well as the saw I'm running and if the wood is frozen or not(just a few examples), so when I speak of a well tuned chain it has nothing to do with the type of cutter or file I'm using.
I like square a lot because of how smooth it cuts, because it cuts so smooth I can control the cut better and avoid hitting things I don't want to hit such as the ground or a nail, which keeps it sharper longer. I spend more time filing or grinding a square chain though, so the speed isn't a large enough gain to use square on everything. Also the cost of files has gone thru the roof(but everything else has too ), glad I have a grinder, but I'm not wanting to remove the chain just to touch it up every time it needs it.
With the newer chains that are out, I find that they are just as fast as a good solid square work grind, and that's right out of the box(in hardwood anyway). Give a new husky x-cut chain a try, you may be surprised.
I do see that you sharpen more aggressively(the sideplate angle, which shows how aggressive the underside of the top plate is)than I do for hardwood chain, that chain wouldn't hold an edge as long as a round ground/ filed, but I'm sure it works great in softwoods and self feeds nicely.
As for your broken chain, I don't think it looks any more worn than chains I've had and I don't break them, well not like that just the cutters start flying off lol. When chains typically break its because people run a worn drive sprocket or spur with a new chain which puts a lot of force on the chain as it's rotating around the sprocket or spur. Usually that's seen in the wear on the driver's and I don't see that on yours, probably operator error . At least it didn't happen when making a back cut on a sketchy snag .
Here's one I did a while ago, we were talking about how you can't take them back to the witness marks(well others were anyway), so I went past them quite a bit.

 

[svk]

Well I couldn't sleep so I got up early this morning and thought I'd post a couple pics of some severely worn chains. Worn to the point of becoming dangerous. In fact, one of them parted on me the other day while making a face cut!

View attachment 1015949View attachment 1015950View attachment 1015951

Now I haven't parted many chain's! Only two that I can remember, maybe three. This one parted at the splice. Possibly due to too much pressure to fast when I spun it, but Im not sure. Im thinking it's more likely due to the insane torque and horsepower my Modified 661 makes!!! Anyways, on a more serious note. If you look closely. You can see the thinning of the drive links. This is 3/8 .50g, I typically always run .63g but with the shortage of light weight bars right now. All I could find at the time in 32" was Stihl LW bars in .50g so I took what I could get. Begger's can't be choosers! However, as you can clearly see. The drive link isn't what parted. The side strap did. Witch would also be the same thickness on a 3/8 .63g chain.

This is a different chain that hasn't parted "YET", and it won't because I've chosen to stop running it before it dose part! View attachment 1015952View attachment 1015953
If you look closely at the drivers and straps on this chian. You'll see a tremendous amount of ware compared to a new chain.
Just something to be aware of.

Also, the bar is Stihl in great shape. Witch tells me its getting plenty of oil, and it should be because I've got the oiler cranked all the way open!

And yes, I know the gullets need removing. I've already removed them twice on both chains! I will take them out again if and before fir some reason. I end up using these chains as back ups.
"If" I run out of good chain, and can't get another spool. Hopefully That won't happen!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!

Is your sprocket bad? Lots of life in the cutter on the chain that died… Usually don’t break until the cutter is almost gone.

 

[svk]

Never heard it called square tuned, just square ground or filed. I tune or dial a chain in for whatever species or job I'm doing as well as the saw I'm running and if the wood is frozen or not(just a few examples), so when I speak of a well tuned chain it has nothing to do with the type of cutter or file I'm using.
I like square a lot because of how smooth it cuts, because it cuts so smooth I can control the cut better and avoid hitting things I don't want to hit such as the ground or a nail, which keeps it sharper longer. I spend more time filing or grinding a square chain though, so the speed isn't a large enough gain to use square on everything. Also the cost of files has gone thru the roof(but everything else has too ), glad I have a grinder, but I'm not wanting to remove the chain just to touch it up every time it needs it.
With the newer chains that are out, I find that they are just as fast as a good solid square work grind, and that's right out of the box(in hardwood anyway). Give a new husky x-cut chain a try, you may be surprised.
I do see that you sharpen more aggressively(the sideplate angle, which shows how aggressive the underside of the top plate is)than I do for hardwood chain, that chain wouldn't hold an edge as long as a round ground/ filed, but I'm sure it works great in softwoods and self feeds nicely.
As for your broken chain, I don't think it looks any more worn than chains I've had and I don't break them, well not like that just the cutters start flying off lol. When chains typically break its because people run a worn drive sprocket or spur with a new chain which puts a lot of force on the chain as it's rotating around the sprocket or spur. Usually that's seen in the wear on the driver's and I don't see that on yours, probably operator error . At least it didn't happen when making a back cut on a sketchy snag .
Here's one I did a while ago, we were talking about how you can't take them back to the witness marks(well others were anyway), so I went past them quite a bit.

365 sorta special? Lol

 

[svk]

@chipper1 I know we’ve talked about the sending units before because I had one go bad on my Yukon around 2016 and the replacement was going bad when I sold it last year.

 

[MustangMike]

I forgot to hit "post" on this yesterday!

Our condolences to those across the pond for the loss of a special "Lady". There likely will never be another like her.

My wife adored the many tasteful outfits that she wore, many in brilliant pastel colors, that remained very tasteful, in part, due to her gracious smile.

A detailed history book could be written from her mind.

The world will miss her, long live the King!

 

[MustangMike]

Reasons I like square vs round filed chain:

1) cuts a little faster

2) you can also use it for ripping or milling just as it is. Round recommends other angles for this.

3) I think it is a little smoother when everything is working right.

 

[MustangMike]

Chipper, I think you meant my Nephew MechanicMatt!

I'm old school with the motors, if it does not have a carburetor I'm lost!

Matt is currently one level up from a Service Manager at one of the larger GM dealers in the area. (Can't remember his current title, but he is charge of both Service and Parts). I believe he stays in touch with SVK on a gun site.

 

[svk]

Don’t move there
https://camperreport.com/california...PH0tSc_wvKjAGAxAgWlYeF_IF3xuwmti5D63JaxVQg2sc

 

[LondonNeil]

Well the country enters a period of mourning....I, like many, feel sorry for the loss to her family and friends and it's not a great time for a party..... But behind that it feels outdated to go too far. The monarchy isn't the ruling establishment nor some essential part of our fabric, without which the commonwealth crumbles, anymore. I'm not anti royalist, some are better than others and she was one of the best, but the country for on fine. So, condolences to her family for their personal loss but honestly, don't fret anymore then before for the country

 

[sean donato]

That's kind of what I figured would happen eventually that it would have to be made available to everyone. I think at the moment more so the problem is that if you have an issue with it for whatever reason it is even if its under warranty if the dealer has not had the training on them they just wont touch it at all even if its a chain brake issue and doesn't require it to even be plugged in at all. And for me I just don't like dealing with that I'm not driving all over the state for that I'm too busy. And like @WoodAbuser said I have tons of saws I can grab right now. When every shop can work on them and warranty repair them then ill probably grab them for like you said reliability.

Some of the dealers not wanting to get the training is area specific, ie not a lot of pro saw sales. You can't spit with out hitting a stihl dealer around here. Weather it's a John deer fake stihl dealer or a lawn and garden type shop. Now the good dealers are just a few, but the software and training hasn't been an issue. What they charge to hook up is my biggest complaint. $90.00 to hook up for a reset or firmware update is a rip off no matter how you look at it.

Be thankful, those top-heavy, twisted up Beech trees are top-shelf firewood. I've seen how hard some of these guys work to get there hands on stuff that I wouldn't give a second look.

Beech is up there with my favorite burn wood. Now cleaning up its mess and splitting it is a pain, but I'd never say no if it's free to me.

Well Sir. IMOP a square tuned chain. Cutts faster, smoother and stays sharper longer than a round tuned chain. However, if you're running a full compliment round chain vs. a full skip square chain. The full comp round will probably cut smoother. As far as faster and sharper longer? I wouldn't know. I've never done that test. Also, most all my experience is in conifer. Things may be different in hard woods. Chipper1(Brett), Sierra Rider, MustangMike, SeanDenato, Squareground and quite a few others on this thread can tell you much about saw chain. They are all very knowledgeable Sawyers! In fact, I think there's even a thread on this Forum that focuses on saw chains and all the different tuning methods and reasoning behind them. If there isn't? There should be! Round and Square tunes both have their advantages and disadvantages IMOP bud!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!

I like square ground the best, but it doesn't stay as sharp as long with what I am typically cutting, if I know I'm going to be cutting winter felled, or clean wood the square is the way to go, if it the typical yard tree or logging rejects I'll stick with a round filed full chisel chain. I don't like and will never run a round ground chain, don't care if I have to touch up ever tank, it's so slow in the cut, I feel like I'm gonna die of old age going through a 18" stump, let alone anything larger.
Now square ground is the hardest to sharpen right and I'm just ok at it By hand. I really wish I had a grinder. I find round is easy to touch up and keep pretty sharp by hand, and don't typically use the grinder much unless I hit something or I'm getting way out of whack from hand filing.
Just my thoughts. There's a good use for ever type of grind and we all have our preference.

I forgot To quote the gun talks... I've always been on the fence with a stripper clip, vs, drop plate mag, vs box mag on my rilfles..as I shoot scoped rifles I can't use stripper clips in 90% of them. Few of them have drop plate mags and I like them for the most part save for the belted or large rim cartridges. You need to have them stacked just right or they dont feed right. I don't seem to have that issue with a box mag with the belted cartridges.
My Tika(300 wm) has the Mt tactical lower metal kit and uses aics mags, you can run pretty long oal with them, I wish they had a 3 round mag as the 5 round mags hang down farther then I really like. Reloading with it is lightning fast though. Hit the mag release with your index finger and it falls right out. The factory box mag was terrible imo. And a massive pain to remove.
Now my savage 338mag has a 3 round box mag and it's not terrible to remove. As far as I know there are no other options and the oal needs to be watched with longer bullets. So I stay a little conservative when I work up new loads for it. I've found downloading a 210 gr to 2500fps to be a very effective deer round. I've loaded them up to 3100fps and they still hold together very well. I was shooting hornady sst bullets, and although they are very effective at killing, they disintegrated after penitration. Mad a lot of internal hamburger. Wasn't into that. Had the same issue in the 7mm mag with Remington core lock soft points.(factory loads.)

 

[sean donato]

Never heard it called square tuned, just square ground or filed. I tune or dial a chain in for whatever species or job I'm doing as well as the saw I'm running and if the wood is frozen or not(just a few examples), so when I speak of a well tuned chain it has nothing to do with the type of cutter or file I'm using.
I like square a lot because of how smooth it cuts, because it cuts so smooth I can control the cut better and avoid hitting things I don't want to hit such as the ground or a nail, which keeps it sharper longer. I spend more time filing or grinding a square chain though, so the speed isn't a large enough gain to use square on everything. Also the cost of files has gone thru the roof(but everything else has too ), glad I have a grinder, but I'm not wanting to remove the chain just to touch it up every time it needs it.
With the newer chains that are out, I find that they are just as fast as a good solid square work grind, and that's right out of the box(in hardwood anyway). Give a new husky x-cut chain a try, you may be surprised.
I do see that you sharpen more aggressively(the sideplate angle, which shows how aggressive the underside of the top plate is)than I do for hardwood chain, that chain wouldn't hold an edge as long as a round ground/ filed, but I'm sure it works great in softwoods and self feeds nicely.
As for your broken chain, I don't think it looks any more worn than chains I've had and I don't break them, well not like that just the cutters start flying off lol. When chains typically break its because people run a worn drive sprocket or spur with a new chain which puts a lot of force on the chain as it's rotating around the sprocket or spur. Usually that's seen in the wear on the driver's and I don't see that on yours, probably operator error . At least it didn't happen when making a back cut on a sketchy snag .
Here's one I did a while ago, we were talking about how you can't take them back to the witness marks(well others were anyway), so I went past them quite a bit.

For those that paid attention... notice how it cut straight with different and missing cutters? Looked like it cut decently fast and it self fed too.....

 

[Sierra_rider]

Well I couldn't sleep so I got up early this morning and thought I'd post a couple pics of some severely worn chains. Worn to the point of becoming dangerous. In fact, one of them parted on me the other day while making a face cut!

View attachment 1015949View attachment 1015950View attachment 1015951

Now I haven't parted many chain's! Only two that I can remember, maybe three. This one parted at the splice. Possibly due to too much pressure to fast when I spun it, but Im not sure. Im thinking it's more likely due to the insane torque and horsepower my Modified 661 makes!!! Anyways, on a more serious note. If you look closely. You can see the thinning of the drive links. This is 3/8 .50g, I typically always run .63g but with the shortage of light weight bars right now. All I could find at the time in 32" was Stihl LW bars in .50g so I took what I could get. Begger's can't be choosers! However, as you can clearly see. The drive link isn't what parted. The side strap did. Witch would also be the same thickness on a 3/8 .63g chain.

This is a different chain that hasn't parted "YET", and it won't because I've chosen to stop running it before it dose part! View attachment 1015952View attachment 1015953
If you look closely at the drivers and straps on this chian. You'll see a tremendous amount of ware compared to a new chain.
Just something to be aware of.

Also, the bar is Stihl in great shape. Witch tells me its getting plenty of oil, and it should be because I've got the oiler cranked all the way open!

And yes, I know the gullets need removing. I've already removed them twice on both chains! I will take them out again if and before fir some reason. I end up using these chains as back ups.
"If" I run out of good chain, and can't get another spool. Hopefully That won't happen!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!

I broke a Stihl chain recently...broke in a different spot though. Cracked at the hole in the driver. I was thinking worn drive-sprocket, but this sprocket is newish and not heavily grooved. The chain still had a ways to go on the cutters, so I replaced a small section and put it back in service.

The chain that broke was a .050. It's on my work saw, and all of our chain is .050, so that's what I get. I've got a mix of different sizes in my personal bars. All of my 32"+ are .063 and my 28" and less are .050. It's just what the local shop stocks.

 

[sean donato]

I broke a Stihl chain recently...broke in a different spot though. Cracked at the hole in the driver. I was thinking worn drive-sprocket, but this sprocket is newish and not heavily grooved. The chain still had a ways to go on the cutters, so I replaced a small section and put it back in service.

The chain that broke was a .050. It's on my work saw, and all of our chain is .050, so that's what I get. I've got a mix of different sizes in my personal bars. All of my 32"+ are .063 and my 28" and less are .050. It's just what the local shop stocks.

I've never seen a major difference in .050 vs a larger gauge in a chain breaking. Typically its a tie strap failure. So the gauge doesnt have much to do with that. Seems my gauge choice mirrors yours for the same reasons, save I don't have a 28. 24 and under. 050, 32 and up .064..

 

[Sierra_rider]

Well Sir. IMOP a square tuned chain. Cutts faster, smoother and stays sharper longer than a round tuned chain. However, if you're running a full compliment round chain vs. a full skip square chain. The full comp round will probably cut smoother. As far as faster and sharper longer? I wouldn't know. I've never done that test. Also, most all my experience is in conifer. Things may be different in hard woods. Chipper1(Brett), Logger Nate, Sierra Rider, MustangMike, SeanDenato, Squareground and quite a few others on this thread can tell you much about saw chain. They are all very knowledgeable Sawyers! In fact, I think there's even a thread on this Forum that focuses on saw chains and all the different tuning methods and reasoning behind them. If there isn't? There should be! Round and Square tunes both have their advantages and disadvantages IMOP bud!

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!

I'm running a mix of round and square filed chain. My climbing saws and limbers are all round filed. My falling chains are typically square filed...I'm doing it by hand, really wish I could justify a Simington grinder. I'm using triangle files...I'm merely ok at it. I'm wildly inefficient at it and have to focus hard to get a consistent filing done.

I have an Oregon grinder for round filed, but I don't really use it anymore. Round filing is so easy, I can knock a 91dl skip chain in just a few minutes.

As for preferences...I like the way square cuts. It cuts faster and it seems to hold an edge just as long(maybe even longer) as round filed when cutting conifers. I also like how the square can "bite" into a new kerf...best way I can explain it is if I have to clean a face out and my undercut is short from my gunning cut...the square file chain is easy to get a new kerf started, rather than wanting to skip across the existing face like a round file does.

I like round file chain in dirty cutting or if I'm brushing/doing a lot of stuff near the ground. The only reason is how easy it is to sharpen. All of my chains are chisel except for a special narrow kerf pico on one of my climbing saws...that one's semi-chisel, but still a non-safety chain. I'm also running skip on all my 3/8 and .404 chain.

 

[Vtrombly]

I also round grind since I don't have access to a square grinder. I have a 2 grinder setup in my shop where I do the cutter with one and the raker with the other. I'm thinking for most stuff ill be fine. My 288XP was throwing nice big chips last week and cutting strait so I cant complain about that.

 

[Sierra_rider]

I've never seen a major difference in .050 vs a larger gauge in a chain breaking. Typically its a tie strap failure. So the gauge doesnt have much to do with that. Seems my gauge choice mirrors yours for the same reasons, save I don't have a 28. 24 and under. 050, 32 and up .064..

I finally got a 28" last year and now have 3 of them lol...it's my favorite bar size now. At work, I spend most of my time essentially brushing, actual falling isn't as much. I need to do both with just one saw, so I've found the 28" lightweight to be the most versatile size.

Most of the other saws at work are running 24" bar's. They get outsized pretty quickly when it comes to falling. It's only 4", but it often makes a difference.