Seeking advice for pollarded eucalyptus

[jefflovstrom]

Ah!, To live in San Diego! Lots going on!
Jeff

 

[treevet]

I've gotta euc that's slated for removal that was topped about 10-12 years ago, that few arborists except me think has ever been topped. The secondary growth is about 45 feet long, and I admit that it's a beautiful euc. But the problem is it's over a twostory condo. My recommendation to remove it has been hotly debated by residents and other arborists as well who doubt the tree was ever topped.

Since I'm removing other far more hazardous secondary growth eucs on the same property tomorrow, I will take a short vid of the euc in question then, and post it for my Australian counterparts to comment on and give an opinion as to whether I will be proved right or wrong about it being a topped tree?

Of course I intend to forensically prove it's been topped by ripping the pertinent trunk section and exposing the old topping cut hidden within.

I'll post the vid in this thread tomorrow, but will start a new thread when I take the tree down and rip the trunk to determine it's weak secondary growth faults.

jomoco

Awful hard to look good when you are taking down a controversial tree too, even if you are 100% in the right, they don't know that or more usually they don't care.

 

[Boa07]

It is always interesting to read the opinion of others, and I don't reject those opinions out of hand, without some consideration of what you have to offer.

Despite your disdain for dynamic systems Dave it was entirely appropriate in the case of the fall arrest/branch snare set up for the veteran tree adjacent to the skate park.

I'll take VTA advice based on pics on the internet from the US Arborists on a tree I climbed and inspected and completed a documented tree risk assessment on, with a truck load of salt thanks.

I have never implied that static systems do not have a place in the options that tree owners and managers should consider. Thankfully I am able to provide other options where I deem appropriate based on my very limited (according to some here) knowledge and experience of the trees I work with.

 

[jomoco]

Awful hard to look good when you are taking down a controversial tree too, even if you are 100% in the right, they don't know that or more usually they don't care.

More than enough of that area's residents ended up with big eucs crushing their roofs in during our last windstorm to get their attention in a big way TV.

That combined with my technical removal ability using speedlines and my hobbs, keeps me lookin good despite my age and general orthopedic frailties!

Euc makes great firewood too.

jomoco

 

[treevet]

It is always interesting to read the opinion of others, and I don't reject those opinions out of hand, without some consideration of what you have to offer.

Despite your disdain for dynamic systems Dave it was entirely appropriate in the case of the fall arrest/branch snare set up for the veteran tree adjacent to the skate park.

I'll take VTA advice based on pics on the internet from the US Arborists on a tree I climbed and inspected and completed a documented tree risk assessment on, with a truck load of salt thanks.

I have never implied that static systems do not have a place in the options that tree owners and managers should consider. Thankfully I am able to provide other options where I deem appropriate based on my very limited (according to some here) knowledge and experience of the trees I work with.

I think you are one of the most knowledgeable arborists I have ever conversed on forums with or anywhere for that matter Sean. We just have a difference of opinion here and despite my doubtfulness (not disdain) for the merits of elastic support system (esp in my applications) I also am leery of appearing to "snare" all of the branches when in reality you probably will only snare a fraction of them (and maybe the ones that fail are the unsnared ones).

 

[treevet]

More than enough of that area's residents ended up with big eucs crushing their roofs in during our last windstorm to get their attention in a big way TV.

That combined with my technical removal ability using speedlines and my hobbs, keeps me lookin good despite my age and general orthopedic frailties!

Euc makes great firewood too.

jomoco

I understand but there is always one or a few that step in the front and cast doubt on the unknowing and this is where I meant that you sometimes look bad.

I removed a historical oak a few years ago that dropped a giant leader between two 200 year old Victorians and when I visited the scene I put a polesaw through the 12 foot wide base. Prior to removal a local forestry board member demanded to know why I was beginning the removal and I explained in detail (hey in the end the tree could be flush cut with an 020 and it was at least 120' tall).

I told him that when this tree fails someone on the road by a school or in any of 4 houses or passerby's could be killed. His response was "so what, you should leave the tree there anyway". He made a big fuss around town about it and How you gonna bring everyone over there and show them the stump.

Especially these days your going to have people just driving by a big removal thinking they are doing the right thing making a fuss about it.

 

[jomoco]

I understand but there is always one or a few that step in the front and cast doubt on the unknowing and this is where I meant that you sometimes look bad.

I removed a historical oak a few years ago that dropped a giant leader between two 200 year old Victorians and when I visited the scene I put a polesaw through the 12 foot wide base. Prior to removal a local forestry board member demanded to know why I was beginning the removal and I explained in detail (hey in the end the tree could be flush cut with an 020 and it was at least 120' tall).

I told him that when this tree fails someone on the road by a school or in any of 4 houses or passerby's could be killed. His response was "so what, you should leave the tree there anyway". He made a big fuss around town about it and How you gonna bring everyone over there and show them the stump.

Especially these days your going to have people just driving by a big removal thinking they are doing the right thing making a fuss about it.

How did Shakespear describe his foremost principle to live by?

According to the Gilligan's Island I grew up with, it went,

"There's just one other thing, you ought to do, to thine own self be true".

jomoco

 

[Boa07]

I think you are one of the most knowledgeable arborists I have ever conversed on forums with or anywhere for that matter Sean. We just have a difference of opinion here and despite my doubtfulness (not disdain) for the merits of elastic support system (esp in my applications) I also am leery of appearing to "snare" all of the branches when in reality you probably will only snare a fraction of them (and maybe the ones that fail are the unsnared ones).

Thankyou for those words Dave, I have a very high regard for the discussion you and I have had in the past and look forward to many more.

The only reason I actually got involved in the thread at all was because I did not want a misunderstanding about what was behind the system shown in the picture posted up.

I agree such snares won't get all the branches, we took the approach of very carefully identifying all the branches above the target area and roped those. It was all done with a clear understanding of the results of my quantified risk assessment, and following discussion with the asset owner.

I know we won't agree on every aspects of our work, that is a good thing I think, even the limited amount of exchange we have had over this has led me to clarify in my own mind what it is i think I am doing when I advise cabling for a specific tree.

 

[outofmytree]

I've gotta euc that's slated for removal that was topped about 10-12 years ago, that few arborists except me think has ever been topped. The secondary growth is about 45 feet long, and I admit that it's a beautiful euc. But the problem is it's over a twostory condo. My recommendation to remove it has been hotly debated by residents and other arborists as well who doubt the tree was ever topped.

Since I'm removing other far more hazardous secondary growth eucs on the same property tomorrow, I will take a short vid of the euc in question then, and post it for my Australian counterparts to comment on and give an opinion as to whether I will be proved right or wrong about it being a topped tree?

Of course I intend to forensically prove it's been topped by ripping the pertinent trunk section and exposing the old topping cut hidden within.

I'll post the vid in this thread tomorrow, but will start a new thread when I take the tree down and rip the trunk to determine it's weak secondary growth faults.

jomoco

This sounds like a great idea. I look forward to putting my foot in my mouth as to where it was or was not previously topped. PM's are always fun and sometimes offer some real surprises.

If I might make so bold, how about getting your mate with the snazzy new camera to take some quality stills before you start the job.

 

[jomoco]

Here's the euc in question guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FeRejor6jI

jomoco

 

[outofmytree]

Been out at Kings park with my boys today and saw a tree worth a couple of pictures for this thread. This P.radiata had dynamic cable added recently to make sure that, in the event of a branch failure, no serious damage would be done to the heritage building adjacent to it.

I believe there are some misconceptions as to the purpose of dynamic cabling in trees and I would like to correct those if I may. This cable is not intended to support the tree in any way. Rather it is much like a fall arrest harness we might wear in a bucket. It is there just in case. Note the slack around the stems. I believe this addresses TV's concern regarding possible "choking" of leaders and if you look closely there is as much as half a metre of slack at each end for later adjustemnt.

Here is the cable running out to the branch as support in case of catastrophic failure.

Sorry I couldnt find a Euc which has been cabled in similar fashion but as I have said before, there are just not enough cabled trees in WA.

I do not believe that static or dynamic cabling is the only solution but rather that each has its place in preserving what otherwise may have been a tree slated for removal.

 

[jomoco]

P. radiata?

jomoco

 

[outofmytree]

P. radiata?

jomoco

Pinus radiata

Actually that was an educated guess as I truthfully did not look closely at the petioles to determine numbers but I think it a pretty safe bet.

 

[jomoco]

Don't bet on it my friend.

jomoco

 

[treevet]

No misconceptions here in regards to dynamic cabling. If one takes a substantial fall (your analogy) then at some point he is captured and quite possibly his back is broken or more serious injuries are sustained from the fall arrest system.

At some point that system (pictured) has to capture the movement from exceeding the distance that initiates failure in the defect. At that point live cell tissue on the back side of the supported limb/s will be compressed.

Why not put a static system in your pictured tree? There is no reason and it is bullet proof. I think usually the reason is most people have never learned how to install them.

 

[outofmytree]

Don't bet on it my friend.

jomoco

Ok smartypants. If it makes you feel better I will go back to the site and count. Now that species ID is out of the way, this is, IMHO, a good example of dynamic cabling.

 

[outofmytree]

No misconceptions here in regards to dynamic cabling. If one takes a substantial fall (your analogy) then at some point he is captured and quite possibly his back is broken or more serious injuries are sustained from the fall arrest system.

At some point that system (pictured) has to capture the movement from exceeding the distance that initiates failure in the defect. At that point live cell tissue on the back side of the supported limb/s will be compressed.

Why not put a static system in your pictured tree? There is no reason and it is bullet proof. I think usually the reason is most people have never learned how to install them.

Good question Dave. Why not put a static system in place? Firstly there is no acknowledged defect in the tree. Secondly any static system, by default, becomes part of the trees structure. Similar to a wheelchair being essential to a paraplegic getting around. But if there is the option of say, walking canes and physio why not use it? Dynamic systems allow the tree to support itself whilst providing a failsafe in a worst case scenario.

Again I say, neither system is the be-all and end-all of tree care but rather each has its place in the modern arborists tool kit.

 

[jomoco]

Just compare your tree to an actual P. radiata my friend.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Pinus_radiata.JPG

P. radiata is one of the most susceptible pines there is to both the Ipps beetle and pitch canker fungus. Though they still thrive in N. Calif in the coastal fog, they are dying left and right in SoCal, as illustrated in the pic above, the tree is half dead, browned out, and not the deep vibrant british racing green of a healthy thriving Monterrey pine in the bay areas of SF.

Oh, and dynamic cabling is snake oil sales to the gullible unwary customer.

jomoco

 

[treevet]

Good question Dave. Why not put a static system in place? Firstly there is no acknowledged defect in the tree. Secondly any static system, by default, becomes part of the trees structure. Similar to a wheelchair being essential to a paraplegic getting around. But if there is the option of say, walking canes and physio why not use it? Dynamic systems allow the tree to support itself whilst providing a failsafe in a worst case scenario.

Again I say, neither system is the be-all and end-all of tree care but rather each has its place in the modern arborists tool kit.

I don't agree with that post including the analogy but hey, can't imagine agreeing on everything on a forum.

Is what you are saying that you install the system and after years you have made the tree capable of not needing any system (when previously it needed one)?

 

[outofmytree]

I don't agree with that post including the analogy but hey, can't imagine agreeing on everything on a forum.

Is what you are saying that you install the system and after years you have made the tree capable of not needing any system (when previously it needed one)?

Analogies are like rectums and we all know where that analogy is going....

My point is that, in this case, the tree did not require support but rather that there was pressure to remove the limb over the building or indeed remove the entire tree. If support is not required then why supply it.

Getting back to the OP and to why we are discussing dynamic vs static cabling, one of my suggestions was to discuss dynamic cabling of trees which, although not evidently in need of support, were statistically more likely to fail than average. Getting back to my poor analogy, much like wearing a fall arrest harness in a bucket. As a long term bucket owner Dave, I am sure you would recommend the harness over the option of being the stone in the slingshot as can occasionally occur.