Seeking advice for pollarded eucalyptus

[outofmytree]

Just compare your tree to an actual P. radiata my friend.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Pinus_radiata.JPG

P. radiata is one of the most susceptible pines there is to both the Ipps beetle and pitch canker fungus. Though they still thrive in N. Calif in the coastal fog, they are dying left and right in SoCal, as illustrated in the pic above, the tree is half dead, browned out, and not the deep vibrant british racing green of a healthy thriving Monterrey pine in the bay areas of SF.

Oh, and dynamic cabling is snake oil sales to the gullible unwary customer.

jomoco

Nice picture Jomoco. I will keep my word and return to the site to take enough pictures for a positive ID.

Oh, and dynamic cabling is snake oil sales to the gullible unwary customer.

In your opinion. An opinion not held by many well credentialled arborists around the world. I would welcome any argument you have that is supported by fact or even reasonable conjecture rather than bald faced statements with no credibilty attached.

 

[jomoco]

Firstly there is no acknowledged defect in the tree.

So why then are you selling snake oil to your customer, instead of explaining the the structural dynamics of how compression and tension wood is formed in the tree naturally?

jomoco

 

[treevet]

Is what you are saying that you install the system and after years you have made the tree capable of not needing any system (when previously it needed one)?

You never answered the question you begged by suggesting through analogy this was the reason for your treatment.

 

[outofmytree]

So why then are you selling snake oil to your customer, instead of explaining the the structural dynamics of how compression and tension wood is formed in the tree naturally?

jomoco

You should read other peoples posts more carefully Jomoco. I didn't sell anything to anyone I simply took photographs of work that I had some prior knowledge of. That aside, do you have insurance on your truck? Your house? Yourself? If you are a professional you will of course say yes. You are a professional right?

So then you understand the concept of "just in case". That is, in my opinion, the value of dynamic cabling. If the worst occurs, no one dies and no property gets damaged. Cast your mind back to Boa's cabling pictures and it is essentially the same thing. Not a system to support the tree but rather a system to keep people and property safe.

If the choices are remove a tree to satisfy a clients fear of a possible failure vs dynamic cabling which allows the tree to grow as it should but ensures the safety of all then the latter is my preferred choice.

 

[outofmytree]

You never answered the question you begged by suggesting through analogy this was the reason for your treatment.

Sorry Dave but I don't get this one? Maybe I missed a previous comment?

 

[jomoco]

You should read other peoples posts more carefully Jomoco. I didn't sell anything to anyone I simply took photographs of work that I had some prior knowledge of. That aside, do you have insurance on your truck? Your house? Yourself? If you are a professional you will of course say yes. You are a professional right?

So then you understand the concept of "just in case". That is, in my opinion, the value of dynamic cabling. If the worst occurs, no one dies and no property gets damaged. Cast your mind back to Boa's cabling pictures and it is essentially the same thing. Not a system to support the tree but rather a system to keep people and property safe.

If the choices are remove a tree to satisfy a clients fear of a possible failure vs dynamic cabling which allows the tree to grow as it should but ensures the safety of all then the latter is my preferred choice.

There is no value to dynamic cabling to anyone but the arborist selling it to the gullible customer.

It's like a quack doctor saying, " Although there's no broken bones in your arm, I'm going to put this cast on it to make it stronger just in case."

jomoco

 

[outofmytree]

There is no value to dynamic cabling to anyone but the arborist selling it to the gullible customer.

It's like a quack doctor saying, " Although there's no broken bones in your arm, I'm going to put this cast on it to make it stronger just in case."

jomoco

Still waiting for a clear, well reasoned objection as to why dynamic cabling has zero value to the tree and the HO.

And just so you know. In real life, anyone calling me a quack and snake oil salesman in the space of an hour is either a fast runner or has good medical.

 

[jomoco]

Still waiting for a clear, well reasoned objection as to why dynamic cabling has zero value to the tree and the HO.

And just so you know. In real life, anyone calling me a quack and snake oil salesman in the space of an hour is either a fast runner or has good medical.

Oh, so you get to spout mistaken tree ID, and the many virtues of snake oil, because you can kick my butt?

jomoco

 

[treevet]

Still waiting for a clear, well reasoned objection as to why dynamic cabling has zero value to the tree and the HO.

I think it not only has zero value but more so it is a liability as a treatment. If it works to protect failure it compresses conductive tissue .....if it does not engage prior to the defect failing it allows the failure.....all the while....

giving a false sense of security to or regarding to the target.

 

[outofmytree]

Oh, so you get to spout mistaken tree ID, and the many virtues of snake oil, because you can kick my butt?

jomoco

Oh dear. Deja vu.

I have said that ID was uncertain and that I would provide more photographs for confirmation.

As to the rest of your "contributions". So far you have provided no argument against dynamic cabling whatsoever. You have however, called me by inference, a quack and a snake oil salesman. Compare this to what Treevet has posted

At some point that system (pictured) has to capture the movement from exceeding the distance that initiates failure in the defect. At that point live cell tissue on the back side of the supported limb/s will be compressed.

TV and I may disagree on this subject but at least we can remain civil. Is your lack of reasoned response a function of your lack of knowledge?

 

[jomoco]

Ah yes, knowledge, that trees and people share the use it or lose it aspects of building strength and muscle mass?

I thought my quack doctor scenario of casting an arm to make it somehow stronger was spot on, mate!

You must be a master certified arborist, oooh.

jomoco

 

[outofmytree]

I think it not only has zero value but more so it is a liability as a treatment. If it works to protect failure it compresses conductive tissue .....if it does not engage prior to the defect failing it allows the failure.....all the while....

giving a false sense of security to or regarding to the target.

Good point. If the purpose of a dynamic system is to support the tree that is but, by name alone, it should be evident that this is not its purpose. Again I refer you to the 2 photographic cases in this thread where the purpose of the system was to prevent harm to people or buildings in the event of a catastrophic failure.

I infer from your posts that it is your opinion (please correct me if I have misintepreted) that if a tree shows any possible sign of potential failure that an arborist should immediately throw in a steel cable to hold it in its current place. It is my opinion that this tree, left to its own devices, would find a way to support any limb or it would "drop" it. In either of these circumstances a dynamic system, properly installed, would allow the tree to add tissue as required whilst providing a failsafe should nature overcome nature.

Please understand I am not referring to trees with existing evident structural faults which require bracing or similar support but rather those which MAY fail in the right/wrong circumstance.

 

[outofmytree]

Ah yes, knowledge, that trees and people share the use it or lose it aspects of building strength and muscle mass?

I thought my quack doctor scenario of casting an arm to make it somehow stronger was spot on, mate!

You must be a master certified arborist, oooh.

jomoco

And still we wait for your 20/30/40 (?) years of industry experience to lend you some credible argument. It is obvious that you do not like or support dynamic cabling but have you any argument that actually holds water? Is all you have to contribute to this thread the drivel that has preceded this post? I honestly expected better of someone approaching 60.

 

[treevet]

Good point. If the purpose of a dynamic system is to support the tree that is but, by name alone, it should be evident that this is not its purpose. Again I refer you to the 2 photographic cases in this thread where the purpose of the system was to prevent harm to people or buildings in the event of a catastrophic failure.

I infer from your posts that it is your opinion (please correct me if I have misintepreted) that if a tree shows any possible sign of potential failure that an arborist should immediately throw in a steel cable to hold it in its current place. It is my opinion that this tree, left to its own devices, would find a way to support any limb or it would "drop" it. In either of these circumstances a dynamic system, properly installed, would allow the tree to add tissue as required whilst providing a failsafe should nature overcome nature.

Please understand I am not referring to trees with existing evident structural faults which require bracing or similar support but rather those which MAY fail in the right/wrong circumstance.

If they "may fail in the right/wrong circumstances" and there is a target involved...... then they need to be ABSOLUTELY contained....not sorta supported or, in Boa's capturing of "some of the limbs that may fall off "sometime".....and let's play the percentages with people's noggins.

Let's look at this from another perspective....

This system.....dynamic....WOULD work IF....

On co doms you put a rope on the top of the leads and pull them until they start making that cracking noise you hear just before failure (pull test).....then you measure it in distance from a fixed object.....then you install a (phantom) guage on your dynamic system and an activating mechanism that begins to activate just prior to reaching that distance and brings the whole movement to a creepingly slow stop

Kinda like my dad teaching me to drive ....put a glass of water on the back window ledge in the car and told me when I stop....don't spill any water.

Do the same thing with lateral branches and the pull test and the guage and the activating (phantom) mechanism.

Then you sold me on this bullshiht system.

When I put a cable in I say to the stem..."you stay right there"....and it STAYS right there.

 

[treevet]

What is this huge affinity for reaction wood (conifers...compression wood on the leaning side of the wood....deciduous...tension wood on the opp side of the lean) why must it be nurtured???

The answer..for profit for the manufacturer of this system.

If a defect or potential defect or potential failure has been recognized then the need for reaction wood manufacturing is rendered moot by eliminating the need for it.

 

[jomoco]

What is this huge affinity for reaction wood (conifers...compression wood on the leaning side of the wood....deciduous...tension wood on the opp side of the lean) why must it be nurtured???

The answer..for profit for the manufacturer of this system.

If a defect or potential defect or potential failure has been recognized then the need for reaction wood manufacturing is rendered moot by eliminating the need for it.

Ah quit spoutin logical drivel that's spot on old man!

jomoco

 

[outofmytree]

What is this huge affinity for reaction wood (conifers...compression wood on the leaning side of the wood....deciduous...tension wood on the opp side of the lean) why must it be nurtured???

The answer..for profit for the manufacturer of this system.

If a defect or potential defect or potential failure has been recognized then the need for reaction wood manufacturing is rendered moot by eliminating the need for it.

And if the limb under question is significant? If you remove it the potential for infection is tremendous. If it is cabled and held rigid despite not showing a defect then the tree will use the cable as support regardless, which undermines the trees own growth and guarantees the need for ongoing inspections and/or corrections.

I am still waiting for a reasonable objection to a "what if" solution that allows both the tree to develop and the HO to sleep easy.

As to the profit for the manufacturer of dynamic cabling systems.... the material is less than half the cost of static systems materials over here. The time to install is also far less. So who is making more money out of cabling?

I don't want this to turn into a blazing row over ideology. I am not saying that static systems are now somehow obsolete but rather that there is more than one way to skin a cat and especially referring to the OP that dynamic cabling is a sound option.

 

[treevet]

I am still waiting for a reasonable objection to a "what if" solution that allows both the tree to develop and the HO to sleep easy.

to develop what....reaction wood? how is that beneficial compared to what?

As to the profit for the manufacturer of dynamic cabling systems.... the material is less than half the cost of static systems materials over here. The time to install is also far less. So who is making more money out of cabling?

Now we are getting to the TRUTH....you have no idea how to cable, want to make some money, and this is your most important consideration.

I don't want this to turn into a blazing row over ideology. I am not saying that static systems are now somehow obsolete but rather that there is more than one way to skin a cat and especially referring to the OP that dynamic cabling is a sound option.

Have no worries OOMT, you saying static systems are obsolete....won't make them obsolete.

dynamic cable is NOT a sound option.

I am going to the gym....not getting anywhere with someone that will not listen to perhaps the 2 most experienced cablers on the forums.

 

[outofmytree]

Now we are getting to the TRUTH....you have no idea how to cable, want to make some money, and this is your most important consideration.

This is unworthy of you Treevet. I am certainly in business to be profitable but I have NEVER put profit before principle. My desire to cable trees is to preserve what may otherwise be removed. I simply choose to do so using different methodology from your own. Methodology I might add that is used around the world by thousands of skilled arborists.

 

[treeslayer]

I am certainly in business to be profitable but I have NEVER put profit before principle. .

famous last words in this economy sadly.......................