Seeking advice for pollarded eucalyptus

[outofmytree]

famous last words in this economy sadly.......................

I plan and hope to never be that desperate TS. So far so good.

 

[jomoco]

Document your justifications for selling snake oil(dynamic cabling) with ANSI, ISA or any other credible cabling standards then mate, not the manufacturers lame pamphlets or sales adds.

If you can't see the contradiction of very basic reaction wood fundamentals that dynamic cabling presents in it's use, you obviously don't understand why unstaking a young planted tree is absolutely necessary for it's structural integrity as an adult tree.

You're taking advantage of your customers fear and lack of arboricultural knowledge, for profit, and doing nothing for the tree's benefit, indeed the tree and customer are both harmed by you selling snake oil to the unwary.

jomoco

 

[outofmytree]

If you can't see the contradiction of very basic reaction wood fundamentals that dynamic cabling presents in it's use, you obviously don't understand why unstaking a young planted tree is absolutely necessary for it's structural integrity as an adult tree.

Is this juxtaposition a typo or just a poor analogy?

 

[outofmytree]

Document your justifications for selling snake oil(dynamic cabling) with ANSI, ISA or any other credible cabling standards then mate, not the manufacturers lame pamphlets or sales adds.

jomoco

Better yet. Why don't you start a class action against those companies who promote this type of product if you believe it really is a fraud.

 

[treevet]

This is unworthy of you Treevet. I am certainly in business to be profitable

I calls em as I sees em.

 

[outofmytree]

You're taking advantage of your customers fear and lack of arboricultural knowledge, for profit, and doing nothing for the tree's benefit, indeed the tree and customer are both harmed by you selling snake oil to the unwary.

jomoco

If you're not going to remove them, the only responsible course of treatment is to top them again at a relatively uniform heigth of 10-12 feet above the old topping cuts.

Make it perfectly clear in the contract that followup pruning within 3-5 years is mandatory to avoid a hazardous tree situation from developing again as a result of topping.

I believe the proper terminology for the third topping is tertiary growth crown restoration, rather than the second topping that I call secondary growth crown restoration.

And topping is not the same as pollarding, which is an ancient fine art with a very precise set of rules and timelines.

Tertiary growth eucs are very common in California and elsewhere.

Once a tree's been topped the only responsible course of treatment is to either remove it or top it again within a varying timeline dependent on species.

Atleast that's my opinion anyway.

jomoco

The only person here promoting tree harm is you. Topping for profit? Go hang your head in shame.

 

[outofmytree]

I calls em as I sees em.

No you didn't. You called it as you wanted it to be.

 

[jomoco]

Is this juxtaposition a typo or just a poor analogy?

It's a spot on analogy for even a beginning arborist mate.

Why do young potted nursery trees need to be staked after planting?

Because they were propagated in a controlled wind sheltered environment?

Why are natural seedling trees able to grow structurally robust in nature with no staking whatsoever?

It's because exposure to wind causes dynamic movement and forces to be applied on the wood that it REACTS to by putting on more mass in the form of tension or compression wood.

Any time you shelter that tree by limiting the natural forces exerted on it, it becomes dependent on that support compared to an unsupported tree, which is why cabling can only be justified when a REAL structural fault in the tree actually exists.

You're selling snake oil everytime you sell a dynamic cabling job mate.

jomoco

 

[treevet]

No you didn't. You called it as you wanted it to be.

Have you ever installed 1 cable system in a tree?

 

[treeseer]

Any time you shelter that tree by limiting the natural forces exerted on it, it becomes dependent on that support compared to an unsupported tree, which is why cabling can only be justified when a REAL structural fault in the tree actually exists.

I agree, if it's understood that it's somewhat, not absolutely, totally, dependent. If all supported trees became absolutely dependent, then you might have some basis for this:

You're selling snake oil everytime you sell a dynamic cabling job mate.

But this dependence is not total or absolute. Like you and tv, I prefer steel in most cases, but geez you two guys gotta open your intelligent minds to the uses of dynamic too. So far in this thread you 2 seem like Energizer Bunnies. :deadhorse:

 

[jomoco]

I agree, if it's understood that it's somewhat, not absolutely, totally, dependent. If all supported trees became absolutely dependent, then you might have some basis for this:

But this dependence is not total or absolute. Like you and tv, I prefer steel in most cases, but geez you two guys gotta open your intelligent minds to the uses of dynamic too. So far in this thread you 2 seem like Energizer Bunnies. :deadhorse:

You're cordially invited to document the justifications for installing a dynamic cable in any tree, in the pertinent ISA or Ansi cabling standards as well Treeseer.

And unlike OOMT, I suspect that you can actually do it, since I parted ways with both ANSI and the ISA 15 years ago, I wouldn't doubt that they've fallen for this dynamic cabling BS hook line and sinker.

If their new narc off ethics policies are any indication of their critical logical thinking abilities, I'm not impressed, and very glad I left them so many years ago.

I know! Let's cable every branch a pedestrian has to walk under with a rubber band!

We'll be rich!

Not!

jomoco

 

[treeseer]

... I parted ways with .... ANSI ...

:looser:

 

[jomoco]

:looser:

Yes the current ANSI cabling standards make no distinction between hardwood trees like elm and oak, and softwood trees like pines and corals(Erythrina), in terms of whether J lags are appropriate terminations when installing a cable? As long as the wood is healthy, J lag away!

It's a friggin joke!

According to ANSI, I can install a cable, using J lags, to support a known structural fault, in a softwood tree like a pine or coral. Essentially creating ticking timebombs in a customer's tree, by following the current to this very day, Ansi cabling standard.

It's more than just a joke, it's an embarrassment to the arboricultural profession as a whole.

But I'm not laughing, I don't think endangering people or trees is funny in the least.

jomoco

 

[Ekka]

:looser:

Interesting, you are at it again!

Some-one does something for a reason, quite a valid one it appears but you have to brand them in a derogatory fashion insinuating they're a loser.

Shame on Guy, you certainly need help.

Standards are not laws, some people become experts in their fields others become drones of standards. Standards seldom can cater for every scenario and that's where experts work best. Standards evolve from the field and experts, usually standards are preceded by people already doing the job.

 

[semiferger]

We are so lucky to have experts of the absolute to share their small nuggets of wisdom with us lesser mortals.How ridiculous of anyone to even consider that a dynamic cabling system could aid in the retention of specific limbs (and their attached live canopy) within the strucutre of an assessed tree.Heaven knows Europe is strewn with trussed up trees strangled by constricting masses of synthetic cabling like some obscene Gordian knot convention.How I dream of the absolute clarity of exposition "Thou shalt only install static cabling and bracing systems"...sadly it seems I shall be forever exiled from the monochrome universe trapped in the agony of my coloured purgatory world.

 

[treeseer]

We are so lucky to have experts of the absolute to share their small nuggets of wisdom with us lesser mortals....Europe is strewn with trussed up trees strangled by constricting masses of synthetic cabling like some obscene Gordian knot convention.How I dream of the absolute clarity of exposition "Thou shalt only install static cabling and bracing systems"...sadly it seems I shall be forever exiled from the monochrome universe trapped in the agony of my coloured purgatory world.

Welcome semi--you are so right; this multichromaticity is so difficult to sort out; life would be so much nicer and neater and safe and secure if it were only black and white. Standards evolve from the field slowly and gradually. Because they are by their nature very conservative, they lag behind in practice.

Some countries with dynamic (no pun) individuals involved may go overboard in adopting new technology, www.sherrilltree.com/.../German-Tree-Care-Standards-on-New-Cabling-Systems-Revised - while other countries, and individuals, resist change.

When intelligent people already doing the job do not venture out of their sandboxes and chill their emotions enough to take part in the evolution of the standards, the industry :looser: , needed change does not happen, and we are stuck with recommendations for lag bolts in soft wood, for instance, and dynamic systems only mentioned in passing, until next time around.

(Jon did not make the leap to take that personally, so I doubt he needs to be rescued with counterattacks. That was a blunder from down under, stirring spit into this thread. That spit does not belong here. Pugnacity oke: presides in the litterbox of Oz, where the Wizard's whims win out every time. But we are not Munchkins, and we don't need Toto to reveal that naked fraud. Pay no attention to that :censored: behind the curtain!)

Black and white seldom works, even the Monkees :monkey: finally discovered that we have to sort out Shades Of Gray

by Barry Mann & Cynthia Weil
When the world and I were young, just yesterday,
Life was such a simple game, a child could play.
It was easy then to tell right from wrong,
Easy then to tell weak from strong,
When a man should stand and fight or just go along.
But today there is no day or night,
Today there is no dark or light,
Today there is no black or white, only shades of gray.
I remember when the answer seemed so clear,
We had never lived with doubt or tasted fear.
It was easy then to tell truth from lies,
Selling-out from compromise,
Who to love and who to hate, the foolish from the wise.
But today there is no day or night,
Today there is no dark or light,
Today there is no black or white, only shades of gray.

 

[Ekka]

(Jon did not make the leap to take that personally, so I doubt he needs to be rescued with counterattacks. That was a blunder from down under, stirring spit into this thread. That spit does not belong here. Pugnacity oke: presides in the litterbox of Oz, where the Wizard's whims win out every time. But we are not Munchkins, and we don't need Toto to reveal that naked fraud. Pay no attention to that :censored: behind the curtain!)

Just cannot help yourself once again.

Counterattacks is pointing out your jestures is it?

Spit is pointing out your insinuations is it?

Pugnacity is getting caught and the blunder is all yours, clear to other readers.

The spit certainly does not belong, so leave Guy, you are like a scratched record stuck on the ISA ANSI chant.

 

[treeseer]

OUOuch! Sticks and stones, best put em down all.

What was this thread about again?

 

[Ekka]

OUOuch! Sticks and stones, best put em down all.

What was this thread about again?

It's about a guy who has a bunch of previously topped eucs to deal with. He's in a quandary about what to do and there's a whole bunch of options (for some people at least). He's supposed to present those options to the client who decides the course of action to take.... but some posters think that's inappropriate too.

Some posters then decide to call other posters names because they see things a little differently.

Some posters also decide certain options should be scrubbed as invalid due to their narrow perceptions.

Some posters practice backflips.

Some posters can only do what ISA and ANSI says and they call other posters LOSERS for not thinking like that.

And some posters got node friggin idea.
​

 

[treevet]

It's about a guy who has a bunch of previously topped eucs to deal with. He's in a quandary about what to do and there's a whole bunch of options

Yeah....I suppose doing the WRONG thing is always an option.

Especially if you do not know HOW to do the right thing :monkey:

And there is a good buck to be made if you just do SOMEthing.