Semantics and Technicalities

[Toddppm]

Originally posted by FBerkel
Idea for an alternate thread: euphemisms. E.G., "remove tree" means "kill" it. (customers don't tend to appreciate that one).

Why do people always ask when would be the best time to do this work? What? It's a removal, does the tree sleep in the winter and we can sneak up on it so it won't feel the pain of being cut down?

 

[TREETX]

The questions I commonly get together are "How much will it cost to remove the tree and when is a good time to do it?"

My answer - It will cost $800 and a good time to do it is when you have $800.

 

[Nickrosis]

My thought overall with this thread was not to mandate or dictate what people should be using but to suggest a standardization that everyone can come to a level of agreement on. Matt suggested that I be careful to not come across in a do-this-or-die type attitude. Man, that's not what I want to be saying to my friends!

I say "Suggested Replacement" because I am very open to other suggestions. No one is saying that what is in print is automatically true, although some seem to believe that.

JPS....care to post your biner/krab preference?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Climbing I like the Kong pear with the grenade gate. Like how they sit on the saddle and are easy to open.

Could also be that is what I've used most often too.

I like mongoose for rigging.

 

[Nickrosis]

I was referring to your use of the word "krab" over "biner." I read your mention of that, but I'd like to know your reasoning for disliking the word "biner."

Nickrosis

 

[Nickrosis]

I'm studying for an exam; I'm not very focused.

For discussion....

I was not familiar with the phrase "apical control" until tonight. I knew what apical dominance was, but it wasn't until I looked up apical control that I realized there is a difference. This is what I read:

Morris G. Cline
http://rycomusa.com/aspp2000/public/P40/0084.html
There has been some confusion in the use of the terms "apical dominance" and "apical control." In the strict sense, apical dominance is the control exerted by the shoot apex over the outgrowth of lateral buds lower on the shoot. In 1967, Brown suggested in woody plants that apical dominance should only be applied to the current year's twig growth. He introduced the term "apical control" to describe the influence of apical portions of a tree crown over perennial branching and general tree form. This term has been widely accepted and employed with considerable latitude for woody species. Apical control refers generally to the suppression of one elongating branch by a higher more vigorously growing branch. In contrast, apical dominance is concerned primarily whether or not an inhibited lateral bud (under the influence of the growing shoot apex) will begin to grow out. Both terms refer to correlative phenomena involving signals operating over long distances to suppress branch growth, the latter, at a very early stage and the former, at a later stage.

Is this the accepted view? Does anyone know of a differing view on these two phrases?

Nickrosis

 

[Stumper]

Sounds good to me Nick. Related terminology that distinguishes between related but distinct phenomena.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

One being a loacl event the other system wide.

 

[NickfromWI]

Message from Tom Dunlap....
Here's a couple more for you to research: hitch and knot, bend and bight, line and rope, cable and bracing.

This is what I know about some of these things.
A knot is a general term describing (almost) all formations of interlocked rope.
A hitch is a type of knot. It is used to attach the end or the middle of the rope to another part of rope (blakes hitch) or to a post or stick or some sort (clove hitch). Note that hitches are reliant on the object that it is being tied to to maintain it's form. If you tie a tautline hitch around the rope, then slide the rope all the way through, the hitch will fall apart.
A bend is a knot used to join two end of a line together (double fishermens, ring bend aka- water knot, sheet bend) Bends are often used by tree climbers to make a prussik loop for secured foot lock.
A bight is simply a fold in the rope. If you take an end of rope, fold it back so that it is running alongside the standing end of the rope, that folded part is called a bight. We often use this to tie a chainsaw to the middle of the rope...put a long bight of rope through the handle, tie a couple half hitches in it- and voila!

This is one of my favorite topics to talk about- let me know if there are any other questions!

love
nick

ps- some say "if you can't tie good knots, tie lots of them." I say- "if you can't tie good knots, learn good knots!"

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

What's a granny knot?

 

[NickfromWI]

granny knot

Mike- A granny knot is the evil half twin of the square knot. For the square knot, they say "right over left, left over right." If you were to tie it right over left, right over left, you end up with the granny knot. Tie them both and compare, you will notice the square knot to have a cleaner more symmetrical appearance. Granny knot is notorious for slipping loose. I say don't use it.

love
nick

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Ok.
How about a clock hitch? Can it be tied with only one wrap around the tree?

 

[Froggy]

Reply

Here's a question. If we do come to one word terminology. Is someone going to put a book out so we all can get the right terminology?? Just curious??

 

[Stumper]

Mike I am shocked by your picture-I never imagined that you would look so much like Nick in drag.
In keeping with posting guidelines I will now say something thread related: NickfromWI do you understand the difference between a reef and a thief in knot terminology? Do you use either in arboriculture?

 

[NickfromWI]

Reef Knot = Square Knot

Stumper- first of all- how do you know what I look like in drag?!!?

-here's what I know about the reef knot. Reef is the name that sailors (and some others, as well) use for the square knot. I prefer the name square knot, and it seems that the people I mingle with do as well. The reef not, thief knot, grief knot, thief knot.....they are all so similar. The differences are subtle and really not important for the arborist. If you'd like to know more, click here

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/reefknot.html

They have good explanations of these. Honestly, I can't think of many instances where I use the square knot (which is the only of these knots that I consider useful) while up in the tree.

hope this is to your satisfaction.

love
nick

 

[treeclimber165]

Re: Reef Knot = Square Knot

Originally posted by NickfromWI
Stumper- first of all- how do you know what I look like in drag?!!?

love
nick

I believe Stumper was referring to the original Nick(rosis).

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Nick Wi, he was talking about the shot of nickrosis in drag I found. Don't worry I'm sure you look good in drag too.

http://arboristsite.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=51672

How about the clock hitch question?

 

[Stumper]

I was indeed referring to Nickrosis in drag/Mike's pic. As far as the reef and thief knots the reef has both tag ends exiting on the same side of their repective standing lines the thief on opposite sides (a slightly weaker construction) the thief was devised as a 'telltale' to allow a sailor to know if someone had been in his kit. (Presumably the thief would err and retie using the standard reef knot.) Neither one are suitable arborist knots. It amazes me that the reef/square knot is just about the only knot that most people know other tha a granny and the half hitch. It's surprising because the reef knot has very few legitimate uses!

 

[NickfromWI]

clock hitch

Hey gentlemen (and ladies, apparently)

I gotta tell you that i'm not familiar with the clock hitch. Does it go by any other names? Could someone describe it to me, or maybe tell me a website i could see it at.

love
nick

ps- i DO look good in drag

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by Nickrosis
I'd like to know your reasoning for disliking the word "biner."

Nick, Say your out working with Jesus, or Julio. You drop your "konnector" without realizing it. Then you say "Where'd that darned biener go?"

Could that be mis interpereted?