Semantics and Technicalities

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Thanks Guy, that's as clear as mud.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Callus has three characteristics.

1. Callus - cells are all the same size and shape.

2. Callus - has very little lignin.

3. Callus - is meristematic. What this means is that it can divide and differentiate to form any and all parts of a tree. It can form roots, it can form buds and it can form sprouts.

Callus starts after a wound.

As the tissues become lignified,

as they begin to have different shapes,

as they no longer are meristematic,

Now,

That which was once called callus,

is no longer callus, and is, and should be, called, woundwood.


Stolen blatantly from :
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/boonites/callus/

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Thanks Mike; it's always clearer when you use a better resource than the top of your (my) head:alien:

The application of all this I think supports my previous thought that removing a very thin layer of callus in rare circumstances may be justifiable, but removing a thick layer is always bad for the tree because it may be differentiating woundwood and hence more important.

I'll get a pic next time I see a reason to slice off a little callus. It may be a while.

 

[Nickrosis]

But saying you're slicing off callus is a nigh-impossible since callus is but a micron across.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

So callus is undifferentiated, meristematic and one micron thick. Sure sounds like cambium to me.
So the question now becomes: what is the difference between callus and cambium?
Is callus just cambium that forms at an injury?

 

[Nickrosis]

Questionable Word or Phrase
Vigor and Vitality
Suggested Replacement
No replacement, just clarification
Reasoning
These words are commonly confused, and I'm bringing this thread back after popular demand.

Vigor is genetic. You cannot influence the vigor of a tree once it has sprouted. Vigor is best thought of as capacity - what the tree "has in it" to achieve. With poor genetics, you're starting out 100 yards from the rest of the back. With strong genetics, you can take a lot of lumps before losing the race is a possibility.

Vitality is what we can control. A tree that is not dying back from a lack of soil space or soil oxygen or soil moisture is going to be healthy in terms of its vitality. So by controlling the conditions the tree is growing under, we can avoid having the tree's vitality take a hit.

 

[spacemule]

Originally posted by Nickrosis
Questionable Word or Phrase
Vigor and Vitality
Suggested Replacement
No replacement, just clarification
Reasoning
These words are commonly confused, and I'm bringing this thread back after popular demand.

Vigor is genetic. You cannot influence the vigor of a tree once it has sprouted. Vigor is best thought of as capacity - what the tree "has in it" to achieve. With poor genetics, you're starting out 100 yards from the rest of the back. With strong genetics, you can take a lot of lumps before losing the race is a possibility.

Vitality is what we can control. A tree that is not dying back from a lack of soil space or soil oxygen or soil moisture is going to be healthy in terms of its vitality. So by controlling the conditions the tree is growing under, we can avoid having the tree's vitality take a hit.

Main Entry: vig·or
Pronunciation: 'vi-g&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French vigor, from Latin, from vigEre to be vigorous
1 : active bodily or mental strength or force
2 : active healthy well-balanced growth especially of plants
3 : intensity of action or effect : FORCE
4 : effective legal status

Webster's doesn't seem to quite match your definition. Seems, according to them, you've got your terms reversed.



Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

One entry found for vitality.
Main Entry: vi·tal·i·ty
Pronunciation: vI-'ta-l&-tE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
1 a : the peculiarity distinguishing the living from the nonliving b : capacity to live and develop; also : physical or mental vigor especially when highly developed
2 a : power of enduring b : lively and animated character

 

[Nickrosis]

Originally posted by spacemule

Webster's doesn't seem to quite match your definition. Seems, according to them, you've got your terms reversed.

How so? Or do you just want to disagree.

 

[spacemule]

Originally posted by Nickrosis
How so? Or do you just want to disagree.

Ok, you say that vigor is genetic and cannot be influenced once the tree has sprouted. Definition 1 of vigor applies to humans, so we must then use definition two, which is "2 : active healthy well-balanced growth especially of plants." Postive, active, healthy growth of plants is most certainly affected by us and is in no way limited to genetics. Your definition further says that vigor is "best thought of as capacity." Take a look at definition 1b for vitality: "b : capacity to live and develop,"--a definition coinciding with your definition of vigor. You say that "vitality is what we can control," but in your defintion for vigor you stated that we cannot affect capacity to live and grow, which Merriam-Websters defines vitality as being.<p> As far as dissagreeing, I really don't care enough to dissagree for the sake of dissagreeing. However, the whole point of this thread is to give accurate definitions, which doesn't appear to be what you gave. I have to ask, do you consult a dictionary before you give us definitions, or are these merely your feelings on the terms?

 

[Guy Meilleur]

This from a draft form of an arb dictionary:

"vigor—overall health; capacity to grow and resist stress

vitality—overall health; a plant’s ability to deal effectively with stress

So should we change this to:

"vigor—overall health; capacity to grow and adapt and resist stress

vitality— a plant’s innate ability to grow and adapt to stress"

or something different?

While we're at it, I proposed changing this:

"stress—factor that negatively affects the health of a tree"

to agree more with human medicine, and Shigo as I read him:

"strain—extreme stress that is damaging
stress—factor that stimulates a response [Stress is an essential fact of life, and often positive.]

Whadya think?

 

[Guy Meilleur]

This from a draft form of an arb dictionary:

"vigor—overall health; capacity to grow and resist stress

vitality—overall health; a plant’s ability to deal effectively with stress

So should we change this to:

"vigor—overall health; capacity to grow and adapt and resist stress

vitality— a plant’s innate ability to grow and adapt to stress"

or something different?

While we're at it, I proposed changing this:

"stress—factor that negatively affects the health of a tree"

to agree more with human medicine, and Shigo as I read him:

"strain—extreme stress that is damaging
stress—factor that stimulates a response [Stress is an essential fact of life, and often positive.]

Whadya think?

 

[Guy Meilleur]

This from a draft form of an arb dictionary:

"vigor—overall health; capacity to grow and resist stress

vitality—overall health; a plant’s ability to deal effectively with stress

So should we change this to:

"vigor—overall health; capacity to grow and adapt and resist stress

vitality— a plant’s innate ability to grow and adapt to stress"

or something different?

While we're at it, I proposed changing this:

"stress—factor that negatively affects the health of a tree"

to agree more with human medicine, and Shigo as I read him:

"strain—extreme stress that is damaging
stress—factor that stimulates a response [Stress is an essential fact of life, and often positive.]

Whadya think?

 

[spacemule]

Well, there you go. A definition carries more weight when you cite your sources, eh? I find it interesting that these two terms are defined so differently. I wonder what the Oxford dictionary says. At any rate, I don't routinely use either of them, so, it really doesn't matter. lol BTW Nick, I apologize for sounding like a jerk last night--I was in a poor mood. Later.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

So according to the Tree Dictionary, I had it exactly backwards.

I use "vigor" a lot; never use "vitality", and wonder about the necessity to separate the two. After all, the genetic material is always subject to some change too...

But now that i think of it, when JFK said "vigor", it sounded like we should be calling up something innate.

What about stress and strain?

 

[Nickrosis]

No harm done! Netree and Rocky have built up my heat shields on this site.

I'm not citing references since they are quite widespread in their use in an arboricultural context. If you're into using those terms.....

Stress and strain? You have to follow the format of the thread! Errr....wait. It's not really conducive to comparing. I'll think about it, though!

 

[glens]

If you guys want to quibble, all you've got to do is ask!

A note from one of the two best and easiest-accessible online dictionary definitions (http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=*&Query=vigor, http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict?Form=Dict2&Database=*&Query=vitality):
<blockquote>Note: Vigor and its derivatives commonly imply active strength, or the power of action and exertion, in distinction from passive strength, or strength to endure.</blockquote>In point of fact, there seems little to differentiate between the terms, especially when discussing trees.

Glen

 

[Nickrosis]

Originally posted by glens
In point of fact, there seems little to differentiate between the terms, especially when discussing trees.

I agree. That's probably why the distinction was invented.

Shigo gets into this in Pithy Points.

 

[xander9727]

Nick gets into this on Arborist Site.

 

[Nickrosis]

You bet I do. Will you just get over the flu and stop littering threads with valuable input? Sheesh!

 

[xander9727]

Oh, Carly, I just love it when you're assertive.