Semi-skip chain angle

[mdavlee]

My grinder isn't marked either. I use an angle finder on the dresser blocks.

 

[mdavlee]

Right now it's set at 22 for the top dresser and 8 for the side dresser.

 

[mdavlee]

Here's a new cutter and a square filed cutter.

 

[twochains]

I had to switch mind sets for the last day or two, been tuning a new build on my son's race quad and haven't been in the house much.

Switching back to the chain topic...I think I will stick with the square ground and just learn it. I'm all about trying and learning new things, if the square ground semi-skip cuts fast I am definitely going to learn to sharpen that way. I'm taking the bar and chains to the woods in the morning and see how I like it. Moving to a 300 acre track in the morning...so it will get some use around day break in some super nice timber.

Thanks for everyone input! Much appreciated! Cheers!

 

[mdavlee]

Let us know how you like it. There's quite a few people on here that can help you out on filing.

 

[Rounder]

My grinder doesn't have numbered increments on the dressing bars, rather just lines etched in. I have to measure them. Greystoke is one of the only folks I've heard of with this kind of grinder.

I cut in almost 100% hardwood so my angles are probably quite a bit different. I would however like to get a good setup for white/red pine. I'm sure they would be similar to western softwoods.

Thanks

Cody's got a Pro Sharp, He got his when they were a bit more reasonable in price.

 

[1270d]

I guess I thought it was a ziegelmeyer. Maybe it was a raker machine I was thinking of. Not that I know him, just from reading threads here.

 

[056kid]

I run pretty soft wood type angles. Less raker depth and more side plate angle as well as more acute cutting angles. As the bit loses its edge it still cuts. My experiences with lesser side plate angles are that after you lose that "razor" edge, you are not cutting much at all. When I first started hand filing I was making bits that had very little top plate angle, lots of side plate angle and rather acute cutting angles. I could not believe how fast it would cut spruce.

 

[twochains]

Well...I forgot it was Easter Sunday! With my best of judgement applied I decided to NOT start a new tract today. I could just imagine me out there blasting a saw all day while the new land owners were having an Easter egg hunt! LOL! That prolly wouldn't go over so well. So with me being like a kid with a new toy I decided to hike up on my land and drop a couple large dead oak leaning over my trails.

First impressions were as follows:

1) Dang this is a long bar (as I was starting the saw)
2) Dang this is a long bar (as I was sizing it up to the tree)
3) Chain cuts smooth as silk, even in the VERY VERY dead oak.
4) IMO the chain cuts rather slow...better than a dull standard chain, but prolly only because a real dull chain might drift off and just over rev the saw.
5) Chain bore cut rather well on a massive head lean, smooth for sure... but waaay slower feeling.

General thoughts:

I think more angle maybe??
Might just not be sharp out of the box maybe??

Over all OPINION:

Love the bar!
Jury is still out on the chain!

Disclaimer...These are my opinions and I could very well be an idiot :msp_w00t:

 

[mdavlee]

You're probably right on it being slower than a good round filed chain. I try to file or grind a new chain if I have time. I've got a brand new loop of Stihl I need to sharpen up.

 

[Rounder]

I guess I thought it was a ziegelmeyer. Maybe it was a raker machine I was thinking of. Not that I know him, just from reading threads here.

SOB has the Ziggy drag grinder that indexes off the point of the cutter. Lazy bum he is...:msp_laugh:

 

[1270d]

I've been lucky enough to use a set of "Ziggy" grinders since I started. The raker machine is a great tool, and my knowledge doesn't run that deep as far as differen plate angles etc. For the last ten or so years most everything is harvester cut now so the square grinding is mostly for fun.

The good part is they'll never wear out at the current rate of use.

 

[bitzer]

Two chains- forgot to mention that semi-skip only comes in square. I've run square semi skip right out of the box and was not impressed. I don't run square and don't have the time to learn it right now, but the loops of full skip round cut circles around that chain at the time. My shop was out of my usual chain and had a couple of semi skip loops. They did not look overly aggressive when I ran them and like others have said they probably needed a touch up. I round ground them after that. I've come up with a pretty wicked round ground chain using two different wheels. I use the standard 3/16" at 60 degrees and then hit it just under the top plate at 40 degrees with an 1/8" wheel. It puts a really nice champfer on it. The side angle is 30 on both. It sounds like a lot of screwing around, but I can do a 32" full skip loop in under 10 minutes. What length of bar did you go with?

 

[imagineero]

How do you figure that? The top point of the tooth is going to be in the same place relative to the centreline of the bar regardless of the angle it is filed at

The woodchuck is right. The chain isn't a rigid affair by a long shot, the rivets are not spun that tight, and there's plenty of room for wiggle in the bar even when the bar and chain are both brand new. Chains with less angle tend to cut a narrower kerf, while chains with more angle tend to cut a wider kerf. The top point does in fact get pulled off to each side, and at some point if you increase the angle too much you'll wear your bar groove out faster, as well as get slower cutting. As with everything, there's a sweet spot... and it turns out that for typical applications its right around the manufacturers reccomendation. Whod've thunk it?


Shaun

 

[StihlKiwi]

The woodchuck is right. The chain isn't a rigid affair by a long shot, the rivets are not spun that tight, and there's plenty of room for wiggle in the bar even when the bar and chain are both brand new. Chains with less angle tend to cut a narrower kerf, while chains with more angle tend to cut a wider kerf. The top point does in fact get pulled off to each side, and at some point if you increase the angle too much you'll wear your bar groove out faster, as well as get slower cutting. As with everything, there's a sweet spot... and it turns out that for typical applications its right around the manufacturers reccomendation. Whod've thunk it?


Shaun

You had me confused as to who you meant by the woodchuck for a minute there - one of the spraying supervisors I work with refers to my degree as "woodchuck school"

 

[twochains]

Bitzer- I bought the 30" bar. It's pretty nice, I am going to try a tank with this current setup this morning, I will prolly get a standard chain 2day and see what Stihl has to offer as far as a full skip, or just make sure of my options with Stihl brand chains. I have used Oregon before but in just a standard "flat top"...they come dull in the box it seems. I have pretty much always ran Stihl chains, Oregon drop the back of their tooth too much it seems.

 

[056kid]

To me square chain is so great because of its accuracy. Face a tree with a little 1" Dutchman on the far side? Snip it right out with that square chain. Round chain will jump and carry on, possibly flying off the rail.
So, depending on what type of cutter you are,(faces proper or stump jumper), you may or may not appreciate a square chain. Factory grinds are usually subpar though..

 

[mdavlee]

Bitzer- I bought the 30" bar. It's pretty nice, I am going to try a tank with this current setup this morning, I will prolly get a standard chain 2day and see what Stihl has to offer as far as a full skip, or just make sure of my options with Stihl brand chains. I have used Oregon before but in just a standard "flat top"...they come dull in the box it seems. I have pretty much always ran Stihl chains, Oregon drop the back of their tooth too much it seems.

I've got some stihl semi skip in .063" and full comp square in .050" if you would like to try a loop of it against the oregon. Just let me know and I'll even put it on the grinder so you can try a better example of square chain.

 

[roberte]

I've got some stihl semi skip in .063" and full comp square in .050" if you would like to try a loop of it against the oregon. Just let me know and I'll even put it on the grinder so you can try a better example of square chain.

shoot, i'll sign up for that .063 111 driver

 

[mdavlee]

shoot, i'll sign up for that .063 111 driver

Let me see what twochains says. I've only got around 230 dl left.