Sharpening Stihl RS

[MR4WD]

I bet you also dump the old oil back into your truck when you have an oil change too.

HAHA! You're an idiot! Dumbest analogy ever award goes to you!

I bet you throw out your engine block when it's time to rebuild, rather than oversizing pistons and bearings?! LOL

For the most part bar rail closers are a sham. You're curving the bar in at the TIP only, pinching on only the part of the driver and chassis that's at the top and bottom of the bar. At least when upsizing in drivers (providing you have rotated the bar regularly and not let it eat tons of dirt) the driver should still fit evenly throughout it's height in the bar.

The chain is pretty much milling away at a bar it's whole life. Proper maintainence should let you uniformly upsize drivers as required through out the bars life.

 

[Brian VT]

:censored: Vanguard chain will make lots of small chips and dust!

I'm very anxious to get a "real" chain but I've only run this saw (my 1st ever) for a couple hours. I'm gonna stick with the safety chain for a bit. This thing seems (to me) to buck 8" ash like a knife through butter with the Vanguard so if it's as bad a chain as you say then I really have something to look forward to when I have more experience, a proper chain, and a log load of firewood.
I'm already getting anxious for the day the warranty ends and I can set her up to run to her potential. :lifter:
I hate to see good machinery choked down. Save the 2-strokes !

 

[DonB]

I wonder how much dirt and grit you would have to run a bar through to make a .058" chain run in a .050" bar?

Not sure about that but wearing out two 3-chain sets and two drive sprockets seems to do the trick. I've definitely gotten my money's worth out of this bar but the man says it should hold up through another set of chains.

Mebbe a lil used motor oil would help?:monkey:

Don't have an answer for you there either since I only use Stihl or Echo oil. I prefer Echo because of the bright red color. I use a lot of it because my oiler is set to flow at 10 mL/min as opposed to the factory setting of 4 mL/min.

 

[DonB]

I'm very anxious to get a "real" chain but I've only run this saw (my 1st ever) for a couple hours. I'm gonna stick with the safety chain for a bit. This thing seems (to me) to buck 8" ash like a knife through butter with the Vanguard so if it's as bad a chain as you say then I really have something to look forward to when I have more experience, a proper chain, and a log load of firewood.

When you get ready, have a look at that Stihl RS. Beautiful chain that seems well-priced. I got three 20" chains for $46.50.

 

[Scootermsp]

Don

Hey Don, good for you thats a great price. Stihl yellow RS is the best chain I've come across also. The Bailey's house brand is good too, I have a dozen of their loops for about $10 each (18"):agree2:

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Not a chainsaw "pro" by any means, but when in doubt, I replace bar/chain, probably do it more than i need to...don't have time to screw with fixes that may/may not work...These guys speak the truth Don....when buying anything from a dealer, your best bet is to be knowledgeable as you can be without being a know-it-all.:greenchainsaw:

 

[Scootermsp]

Learn !!!

Look through this website and various manufacturer websites as well as retailer sites. Learn the what, how, and why of setting up your saw/bar/chain combos. When you go to a dealer and you blaze right through the pitch, gauge, and drivelinks you need....they will be VERY reluctant to BS you. Most of the time I know as much if not more than a dealer. Remember there are probably few dealers/salespeople who cut as much wood as we do (14 full cords/yr)

 

[DonB]

Not a chainsaw "pro" by any means, but when in doubt, I replace bar/chain, probably do it more than i need to...don't have time to screw with fixes that may/may not work...These guys speak the truth Don....when buying anything from a dealer, your best bet is to be knowledgeable as you can be without being a know-it-all.:greenchainsaw:

Mikey, please don't take this the wrong way but I operate under a different set of rules than you do. I'm not an honorable American consumer. I don't arbitrarily replace things just because somebody or something says it's time to do so.

For example: when I need a truck. I use my 20 year old crew cab F-350 diesel. It's a cantankerous old beast but I don't have to worry about removing the key because nobody could ever steal it without knowing the proper firing sequence. I've had this truck for 10 years and I got it when I finally got rid of the 1972 F-350 that I used for 20 years. It's a solid old truck but it can be a real PITA. Some people wonder why I put up with the idiosyncrasies. The short answer is it serves me well and does everything I need it to do. This is the philosophy I use in all things and this is how I've operated since I saved my first dime back in the early 50's. The upside to this philosophy is I could write a money market check for a half-dozen new trucks and it wouldn't even leave a noticeable dent. Little things add up over time.

Safety is an important thing but if and when a chain flies off this bar when limbing or cutting saplings, it won't be the first time and I'm sure it won't be the last. I have a scrench to deal with emergencies like that.

 

[coppermouse]

I was wondering about those loops at Bailey, I was thinking about getting some. Are they as good as the Stihl?

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Not taken the wrong way at all...individual choices ARE the American way!
When I was struggling financially, especially in the early '80's, I fixed, used/drove, did whatever I had to do to make things happen. I have a job now that in addition to a long commute, I put in a lot of hours, and my spare time, especially for woodcutting, is very limited, and downtime for B.S. repairs is not an option. When you have your own business, as I did for many years, downtime costs serious $$$. So, I replace things, and get on with it. If that means I am not an "honorable" consumer in your eyes, then sorry about your bad luck. Chainsaws are too dangerous to toy with...ask my friend John in N.J. who wound up with 75 stiches in his leg from a malfuntioning saw.

 

[DonB]

Alabama Harley

Hey AOD, this one's special for you. LOL

 

[Zodiac45]

While I agree with most that a larger gauge chain in a worn bar is NOT the proper fix, you can certainly do it and probably extend the life-time of the old bar. That said, I would have had the old bar swaged(sp?) first and then had a look at the gauge. This is a tool that squeezes and re-dresses the bar slot and edges. Usually works quite well. Bailey's sells the tool and for sure your dealer "should" have one. If you've already been running the .58 (on an .50 bar) and it's not binding, then you might already have passed the swaging point of return. At any rate, just a thought for the future and another way too approach that problem.
As far as your question regarding "dressing" sharpening between dealer grinds, depending on how much you use the saws/chains, you might consider a grinder and do them yourself. I bought a Speed Sharp used on e-bay for $125 and it's been an excellent tool. Paid for itself in about a year (for me) and I can do a better job than the dealer was doing. They always take too much material off and ruin the temper of the teeth. The key is always just a skim and multiple passes if the need there for taking off more material or changing the pitch of the tooth. I always carry files in the field for 'touch-ups" too. You'll pick up the knack for it after a few tries.

 

[DonB]

While I agree with most that a larger gauge chain in a worn bar is NOT the proper fix, you can certainly do it and probably extend the life-time of the old bar. That said, I would have had the old bar swaged(sp?) first and then had a look at the gauge. This is a tool that squeezes and re-dresses the bar slot and edges. Usually works quite well. Bailey's sells the tool and for sure your dealer "should" have one. If you've already been running the .58 (on an .50 bar) and it's not binding, then you might already have passed the swaging point of return. At any rate, just a thought for the future and another way too approach that problem.
As far as your question regarding "dressing" sharpening between dealer grinds, depending on how much you use the saws/chains, you might consider a grinder and do them yourself. I bought a Speed Sharp used on e-bay for $125 and it's been an excellent tool. Paid for itself in about a year (for me) and I can do a better job than the dealer was doing. They always take too much material off and ruin the temper of the teeth. The key is always just a skim and multiple passes if the need there for taking off more material or changing the pitch of the tooth. I always carry files in the field for 'touch-ups" too. You'll pick up the knack for it after a few tries.

Steve, my dealer checked the slot width and depth with gauges and said it was evenly worn with no distortion and nothing that needed to be filed, cleaned up or adjusted. He saw no problems with it at all, including the nose sprocket. He said the .058 chain was a perfect fit and he ensured it was good all the way around the bar before he made his recommendation.

As for self sharpening, I don't think I'll get too serious about that. I've considered getting a grinder but I've run out of convenient places to park tools a long time ago. It's probably best I let my dealer take care of the heavy lifting and I just touch up after cutting. My chains are like new when he does them and he only charges me $4 each.

Here's what Stihl says about sharpening in the document I linked earlier in this thread.

"Have your chain resharpened by a servicing dealer
after sharpening it about five times yourself. Even
with the correct hand tools, you run the risk of filing
incorrect angles. A dealer has the equipment to precisely
file chain, and a professional sharpening will make the
chain last longer."

 

[DonB]

I've read through this entire thread again and there's something I find interesting. Even though the most highly respected dealer of commercial power equipment in my area thoroughly inspected every aspect of this bar before proclaiming it suitable for continued use with non-standard chains, those of you who condemned his expert advice did so basically because "that's not the way we do things around here". Even more interesting is you did so without posting a word elaborating on the nature of the danger you imply is imminent in doing such a thing.

While I truly appreciate everyone's concern for my safety, you should know that I was first trusted to operate a chainsaw in 1965 and since that time, I've never put so much as a scratch on my body from doing so.

 

[avalancher]

I've read through this entire thread again and there's something I find interesting. Even though the most highly respected dealer of commercial power equipment in my area thoroughly inspected every aspect of this bar before proclaiming it suitable for continued use with non-standard chains, those of you who condemned his expert advice did so basically because "that's not the way we do things around here". Even more interesting is you did so without posting a word elaborating on the nature of the danger you imply is imminent in doing such a thing.
Common sense should tell you that the bars have been thinned to the point that they could fail. I have never personally seen a bar rail come apart, mostly because I junk a bar that has been worn beyond its intended service point, but a bar rail that failed while under power would surely result in an occurence that you would not want to be behind. Not to mention the fact that the thinner bar rails now will be have a tendency to overheat. Brake discs are junked when they become to thin for the same reason. They can and do overheat when they become too thin, resulting in the pads seizing the disc.

While I truly appreciate everyone's concern for my safety, you should know that I was first trusted to operate a chainsaw in 1965 and since that time, I've never put so much as a scratch on my body from doing so.

Been sawing since 1965, and not a scratch? We should all be so lucky. I dont know your sawing experience in those years, but I dare say that the majority of the guys on these boards have got numerous combat wounds that come from putting saws to the wood. I aint proud of my scars,but I seriously doubt that 40 plus years of SERIOUS wood cutting would net you a scar free bod.

Like i said before, the fix that your dealer handed you was not the proper fix. I refuse to believe that the rails on your bar are strong enough to continue safely sawing if they have been thinned to the point that it would accomadate a larger gauge chain. Maybe for right this minute they are strong enough, but what about down the road a bit as the bar rails wear further? At what point are you willing to declare the bar is shot? When the rails wear all the way through?
If you are in a position to write checks for a half a dozen trucks and not feel a pinch, why would you scrimp on a 50 dollar bar?

Bashing members here that do not subscribe your ways of doing things is hardly the way to get your idea or point of view across.

 

[DonB]

Avalancher, except for a period of eight years when I was occupied with other things, I've used a chainsaw frequently and extensively since I began cutting in 1965 at 13 years old. The last 20 years, since leaving the north country, my major saw usage has been in maintenance of our commercial timberland and other heavily wooded properties. I use a saw on a regular basis throughout the year. I don't have to do too much firewood cutting since we only need about a cord a year to heat our house. When I do firewood, I lay in enough to last for 3-4 years.

I don't know what you consider to be SERIOUS wood cutting but perhaps I can give you a picture of how much sawing I do. Since 9/2004 when I put my newest saw into service, I've used a set of three chains until they were completely sharpened out and three more to the point they have one good sharpening left in them. This is typical so you be the judge.

My bar apparently has plenty of meat left on it. The milling required to allow use of .058 chain is only four-thousandths of an inch per side. To put that into perspective, a human hair is roughly four- thousandths of an inch. I didn't spring for a new bar because it wasn't necessary at the time. I'll use this bar until my new set of chains are sharpened out or I switch to a .058 bar. It all depends on how it cuts and how it feels.

I think this thread has run it's course so I'll be done with it now.

 

[DonB]

43 years without an injury is indeed a good record!

I am very fortunate. Not good, fortunate.

 

[Nuzzy]

I guess for me it all comes down to this:

As a personal choice, there are many things in this world I will booty fab and run, and some things that I won't. I will cobble together a rig for wheeling offroad with bastardized spring packs and chained down motors due to faulty motor mounts, but will not even attempt to push boundaries in my design and care of steering parts or brakes. Chainsaws can do a lot of damage quickly and without warning, so I (again personally) wont even question spending a little extra coin towards bars, or chains as they get towards the end of their service life and show a lot of wear.

Regardless of whether it's dangerous or will behave perfectly fine, it is using a tool/part in a way in which it was not intended. I've heard enough people say it's not a great idea that I don't even need to question it. Just not worth having that second thought, and I'm ok with spending the money to achieve that piece of mind.

This however is only my take on the situation. Everyone is entitled to handle things how they want and however they're comfortable.

 

[ShoerFast]

Personal, I would not want a .058 chain anywhere on the ranch.

I could only guess how many times I would try it on a .050 bar?

And a .058 would not fit my 'bench-bar' of .050 , set up to bench sharpen rocked out chains in good lighting.

So a .058 chain is just not a good fix for me.

But on a larger note, how can running a .058 chain in a now, 'Dealer-approved' .058 bar be a safety issue?

There are a ton of things that can go wrong, bad ju-ju maybe the #1 issue , I just fail to see how this B/C is a bad set-up for safety?

 

[bigjake]

I say if it works what the heck.They make al kinds of oversized parts for cars
with things worn out .Like door bushing kits replace the whole hinge thats
welded on price 600.00 or put a bushing kit for a 125.00.i dont have near
the expertise as most on saws .but no one relay gave a reason other than
its not right .if it is dagerous thats one thing but if the guys just trying to
use a well worn bar and it works so what .Just my opinion .
oh wait i have one