Short bar-long bar, whats up?

[clearance]

I have been wondering why some people use/advocate short bars and why some, like me prefer longer bars. I have used a 18" bar for juvenile spacing, but it was on very steep ground and the stumps have to be low. I have also put that 18" bar on my 2101 for fun. I am 5'11", probably 6'1'' with my boots on and I really do not like to use anything other than a 24" bar on the ground, when I was bucking I liked a 28", my firewood/falling 371 has a 28". So whats up, do some people really like bending over all the time? Is the speed advantage of a short bar worth it? Is it an east coast-west coast thing?

 

[Lakeside53]

Long bars save backs (bending) for ground work/limbing. Short bars save chains (tips in dirt), great power, less weight to hump around, quick to sharpen.

I run the shortest bar most of the time, put the long bars on when required.

 

[palmersfirewood]

I run shorter bars than most people on this site. The longest I run is a 28" on an 044

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

I read alot about "balance." I'm not saying that's bogus, but I've never given balance the first thought. If all you ever do is carry your saw around I guess I could understand. And I usually carry my saw over my shoulder anyway. Once the bar is in the cut, beit 16" or 60", it balances just fine. I like a bar just long enough to get through the tree so I don't have to dance around the tree on uneven ground with other trees in the way.

Jeff

 

[Lakeside53]

I read alot about "balance so I don't have to dance around the tree on uneven ground with other trees in the way.

Jeff

I took poetic licence with your quote..

We'll have to call you "dances with saws"

 

[tek9tim]

We'll have to call you "dances with saws"

hahaha... Damn that's a funny mental image...

 

[retoocs555]

The big trees here are NOT like the big trees you got in BC. I could spend a day in the woods and not find a tree a 18" couldn't take down.

 

[clearance]

Guys cut down Sitka spruce and Red cedar trees here that are over 10' (120")at the butt running saws with 36"-42" bars, so the 18" is beside the point. Most of the trees I cut down are under 24", I just like the long bar cause it is way more comfortable, and sometimes safer. Lakeside says short bars save chains, this is true untill you have used a saw for a while.

 

[smokechase II]

long bars

Longer bars make it so easy.
The sprocket tips, full skip chains, life is too easy with this equipment.
There are more teeth to sharpen, but on a 32" bar with full skip, it doesn't seem like any time at all to do a 2 stroke sharpening.
Trade that with the ability to handle most wood where I'm from. Not having to match makes me look better than I am. (Really should have said something about being safer, but both are true.)
The balance I want is something that works for limbing etc. A longer bar's weight puts the saw at the angle that I need it to be the most often for cutting closer to or toward the ground.
When it comes time to start a felling cut, you hold the saw level for a second or two, then the dogs do the work. Limbing is where balance is important.

If you want to see a really hard limbing technique, take a look at:
http://www.skogforsk.se/KunskapDirekt/default.aspx?p=11362&bmp=11727

then do the Film för bredband select on the lower left.

then the Avverkning med motorsåg (10 min) .

Watch the movie about 2/3rds of the way through for the limbing.
I understand that different folks have different ideas about what is safe. OK.
The guy doing the cutting in Sweden is clearly a very skilled sawyer. Can't put down everything in this video by any means. But that short bar limbing, lets not cut anything near the bar tip, after showing plunge cutting technique is about the most absurb thing I've seen.

Cutting with a short bar on a decent saw is like driving in a four wheel drive in icy conditions in two wheel drive just to prove you can.

 

[046]

like using shortest bar to do the job. here we've got mostly hardwoods. 20in bar on 046 is my favorite. MS460 wears a 24in.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Good post smoke.

 

[Dale M]

translation please

Hi. Watched video,, I might be wrong but this guy doesn't seem to safe to me.
He flips the saw around alot, flips the wedge out of the notch with the bar, and part way into the limbing he turns the bar towards his crotch and cuts a limb off,,, Am I wrong here, is this guy safe or was he only allowed 10 minutes of video and had to rush 15 minutes of work into 10.
But I did think the brake by the rear handle was kinda neat but can see it being abit of a pain too.

Dale M

 

[madmax]

Im with u clearance, every saw I own has a 28" bar on it

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Hi. Watched video,, I might be wrong but this guy doesn't seem to safe to me.
He flips the saw around alot, flips the wedge out of the notch with the bar, and part way into the limbing he turns the bar towards his crotch and cuts a limb off,,, Am I wrong here, is this guy safe or was he only allowed 10 minutes of video and had to rush 15 minutes of work into 10.
But I did think the brake by the rear handle was kinda neat but can see it being abit of a pain too.

Dale M

Im thinking......Man this guy is good, should have been a sushi chef.......


Then at 8:43 he damn near takes off a kneecap.:jawdrop:


I also figured out one of the words near the end was Kickback.

 

[reachtreeservi]

Wow!

Smokechase, Where do you come up with this stuff? Swedish chainsaw videos! Don't get me wrong , I liked it . But how did you find them. Hats off to you, you've taken net surfing to a new level!

 

[Andy1234]

I'd be really impressed if he came up with a Swedish Bikini Team Chainsaw Video!

 

[John Ellison]

I believe its all in what you're used to and what style you're using. I fell timber on the west coast for eight seasons and never used anything less than 32". Worked mostly clear cuts, wore corks, walked the log to work it up and felt the same as everybody else out there.

I moved here [AR.] and tried the shorter bars like other cutters here and they felt all wrong. The balance seemed wrong and it was like it was too light in the nose. Old habits die hard and I used the west co. style for quite awhile, other than going to a 28" bar. Finally I changed. Now I usually run a 20" bar. My back is just fine. For me it is easier to bend over with the saw than it is to cary around something that is over 4 ft. long. And you dont have to work on both sides of the stump if it is bigger than your bar. If you dont need the length it robs a lot of power.
I think the situations should dictate the bar length as much as the size of the timber.

 

[Diesel JD]

I like the longest bar my saw can use and still be productive. I'm 6'1" and hate bending down. My 390 has a 25" bar and for bucking small firewood now wears a bow bar. My 025 has an 18" bar. I would use sort of teh opposite logic witha climbing or trim saw. Shortest bar to get the job done.

 

[Pacific]

My 46 runs a 28" bar and my 26 runs a 20" bar and the 051 used to have a 34" bar.

As for running a short bar I find the 28" is just right and the 20" on the 26 is right. The 26 is good for the small stuff 12"s and smaller and the 46 is good for the rest.

The 051 with the 34 is a beast to run as the saw itself is so freaking heavy its more of a bucking saw than a falling saw. I put a 28" on it but it still didn't make it easier to handle the weight of the power head is heavy.

It would also break your knuckles if you forget to push the decomp and the recoil sucked back quick.

 

[smokechase II]

swedish saw video

"Smokechase, Where do you come up with this stuff? Swedish chainsaw videos!"
This video location was posted by SWE#Kipp on 2-24-2006 here on arborsite.com in the chainsaw forum, a thread titled "Starting plunge cuts?"
So thanks to the Swede who posted there !

I looked at the 8:43 mark and I agree, RaisedByWolves, I didn't notice it the first couple viewings, but he does take that bar tip awfully close to his knee.

I don't know this, but I bet that this limbing technique is the result of someone trying to make it safer by instituting a rule on limbing where the tip must be kept further from the limb to be cut. However good that sounded, it actually makes it more dangerous.

Regarding the right handle chain brake. I understand that Stihl is looking at a right handle 'grip' chain brake. This would be where the saw would have to be held by the right hand for both the throttle to be engaged and this chain brake to be released. This chain brake would engage in a slower motion compared to the regular left hand one. I think Stihl may have put this out in some smaller saws already. I like this idea better than the Husky one in the video, but haven't seen it.

I cut some dead Lodgepole in campgrounds where there isn't much space and direction options are limited. I do really like that roll out the tree with a pole stuff in the video. In these campgrounds I could use a 10' chain I have in the back of my FS rig for the pole set up. I have done something slightly similar in the past where I've walked a tree down a couple steps, then saved a longer limb on one side to do a roll. But this is clearly better.
I also instinctively prefer the specific way the stump is rear center bored then angle side nipped to set up the roll.

I had a cutter by the name of Tim Burleigh tell me once that no matter how crazy you thought any given faller was, there were things you could learn from them if you just picked out the right stuff. This Swedish style is foreign to many of us, but I'm gonna see if I can figure out what can work for me on a couple things here. I already do some plunge cutting on a tree by tree basis.

I will still stand by my statement that this Scandavian guy in the video is a skilled cutter. I'm sorry that he has to limb like that, though. Notice how when he uses the pole to rotate the hung up tree out he backs away smoothly and watches the top too. I bet that pole thing has gotten somebody banged up when it got caught on something and slapped the operator up along side the head.

Picture a video of any of us being shown in Sweden. I'm sure there would be a couple threads on that.

Does anybody know what came first, the chicken or the egg? Did Soren Erikkson take Swedish technique like this and modify it slightly to GOL? Or was it vice versa where Soren got things started and his home country followed him? I suspect the former, but am curious.