Should I buy an Oregon 511 or something similar?

[Philbert]

quote="memory, post: 4682695, member: 61975"] . . how much does grinding change the profile of the tooth? I know some people on here sharpen with a grinder then finish off with a few strokes with a file. I figured the grinder would change the profile of the tooth too much to finish off with a file.[/quote]

Anytime you change between different sharpening methods you will have small variances in cutter shape. As noted, grinding wheels do not come in as many sizes as files. So if you grind a chain with a 1/8" wheel, then file it with a 5/32" file, there will be some differences.

Grinding wheels are round, with a rounded edge profile. Files are straight with a rounded edge profile. So if you think how each touches a cutter tooth, there will also be some minor differences. But there may also be some minor differences between a SaveEdge and Oregon or Pferd file in coarseness, etc.

I think that if you shape your cutters with a grinder, then finish off and touch up with a file, you will be fine - especially if they are the same size (e.g. 3/16" grinding wheel profiled half round, and a 3/16" file). If you go back and forth between different sizes, you will use up a little extra metal each time. If you only use the grinder to re-shape damaged cutters, and do maintenance sharpening with a file to keep them sharp, you should not notice a difference.

*Note, that your grinding wheel has to be profiled half round (the same as the file) and you need to place it at the same location on the cutter as the file: too many guys try to grind into the gullets and grind the cutting edge with the flat side of the wheel.

The round part of the profiled wheel has to touch where the round part of the file touches.

Philbert [

 

[nstueve]

I guess I didn't see that one unless it just showed up.

I may buy one from the bay, I can get a new Oregon 511ax for $320 with all the accessories included. I seen one listing on the bay that says it comes with a 5/16 wheel where as the others do not. What would the 5/16 wheel be used for?

Question about grinding vs. hand filing, how much does grinding change the profile of the tooth? I know some people on here sharpen with a grinder then finish off with a few strokes with a file. I figured the grinder would change the profile of the tooth too much to finish off with a file.

Who makes the new Oregon's and where are they made?

You'll never need 5/16. It's used for huge arse 3/4" harvester chain.

 

[Philbert]

You'll never need 5/16. It's used for huge arse 3/4" harvester chain.

Or you can use it for depth gauges, instead of the 1/4" wheel, if you do those with a grinder.

Philbert

 

[memory]

When doing depth gauges with the grinder, do you use the same wheel you use to sharpen the teeth? Does the wheel have to be reshaped each time you go from the teeth to the gauges?

 

[Philbert]

When doing depth gauges with the grinder, do you use the same wheel you use to sharpen the teeth? Does the wheel have to be reshaped each time you go from the teeth to the gauges?

Different wheel - profiled at an angle to increase the contact area. Check out the 511A manual, starting around page 13:

http://www.baileysonline.com/PDF/Oregon511amanual_english.pdf

P.S. I still do mine with a file, then round them over with a ScotchBrite wheel. o8f150 does his with a Dremel:

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/how-i-sharpen-chains.250585/#post-4655456

Philbert

 

[memory]

I figured you would use a different wheel. But I don't understand something. According to that manual, it tell you to tilt the head to 60 degrees when you dress the wheel. I figured you would have the wheel at a 90 degree from the vise so the wheel would be flatter.

I seen that video of 08f150's method and I have thought about buying a dremel for the rakers. But I don't see any sense in getting a dremel if I get a grinder that can do them. Maybe I should get one anyways, I am sure they would come in handy for other stuff.

I don't get this, I have read on here that some people will have two grinders, one to sharpen and the other for the rakers. If one grinder can do both, why have two different ones? Or for that matter, why use a different method at all for the rakers? Maybe the people that do this sharpen a bunch of chains and it is much quicker to use to different grinders.

I can't remember if I read this here or somewhere else but I have read that the vise on the 511ax is kind of flimsy and can break if one is not careful. For those of you with the 511ax, has this been an issue for you?

Is the 511ax made by Tecomec or Oregon? If it is made in Italy, does that mean it is made by Tecomec?

 

[Philbert]

All Oregon grinders are made by Tecomec. Some, like the 511AX have features exclusive to Oregon (like the wheel wear compensation feature).

You tilt the wheel to dress it on a diagonal to get increased contact area (long side of a triangle is longer than either leg) for the larger depth gauge area.

Guys that have multiple grinders do it for convenience: they don't have to swap the grinding wheels after each chain, or don't have to sharpen several chains in a batch, change wheels, then do all of the rakers in a batch.

Philbert

 

[memory]

All Oregon grinders are made by Tecomec. Some, like the 511AX have features exclusive to Oregon (like the wheel wear compensation feature).

You tilt the wheel to dress it on a diagonal to get increased contact area (long side of a triangle is longer than either leg) for the larger depth gauge area.

Guys that have multiple grinders do it for convenience: they don't have to swap the grinding wheels after each chain, or don't have to sharpen several chains in a batch, change wheels, then do all of the rakers in a batch.

Philbert

I don't understand that. I would think you would have more surface contact if the wheel was flat and not rounded. I would also think that you would tilt the wheel to 90 degrees. Don't you grind the rakers with the wheel straight up and down?

 

[Philbert]

I don't understand that. I would think you would have more surface contact if the wheel was flat and not rounded. I would also think that you would tilt the wheel to 90 degrees. Don't you grind the rakers with the wheel straight up and down?

View attachment 332046

 

[memory]

Yeah, that makes sense, don't know what I was thinking. Thanks for clearing that up.

I will probably go ahead and buy the 511ax unless I find a reason not to.

 

[Philbert]

Took me a while to figure it out. The manual is notoriously bad.

Best thing is to find a friend or AS member nearby who can give you a few tips or pointers in person.

Philbert

 

[memory]

I went ahead and bought the 511ax and got it up and running. I got a few questions. For the tilt, there are two different angle guides. One you can see from the front and there are few arrows, the other is on the back and there is no mark to line it up with the guide. I hope you understand what I am talking about. I have read through the directions and like many other people have said, they are not too good.

When sharpening chains, will the head tilt angle be different on full chisel than semi chisel? What size wheel should be used for .325, 1/8" or 3/16"? Some of the .325 chains I use is Oregon 20LPX, I looked on there website for the grinding angles and they show one angle looking straight at the tooth at eye level being 10 degrees. Is that considered the down angle? What is the purpose of the down angle? How is that achieved on this grinder?

When doing rakers with this machine, does the table need to be slid forward? It is set to 0 degrees for the teeth. If so, I can see where it would be a pain to be constantly adjusting the table. You have to use an allen wrench to loosen the bolts, they need to put some type of wings nuts on there so it can be loosened without no tools. Does the chain need to be flipped to do the opposite rakers?

 

[Philbert]

Congrats!

There are several good threads here on AS about using the 511A and 511AX grinder, as well as grinding in general. They are worth looking through.

For the tilt, there are two different angle guides. One you can see from the front and there are few arrows, the other is on the back and there is no mark to line it up with the guide.

For Grinder Head tilt the side has 2 markings: one if you are grinding the chain at 0 degrees Vise Tilt, the other if you are grinding at +/- 10 degrees (aka '"down angle"). I guess that technically there are some compound angles to consider. From a practical standpoint, you can probably just choose one.

There is a separate angle scale for Grinder Head tilt on the back. I have the Speed Star (Tecomec) version of this grinder and there is an arrow cast into one of the pieces on mine.

Note that, on some grinders, the top scale and side scale disagree!!! So either pick one, or take off one of the scales, elongate the mounting holes, and remount it so that they at least agree at 60 degrees.

When sharpening chains, will the head tilt angle be different on full chisel than semi chisel? What size wheel should be used for .325, 1/8" or 3/16"?

This is up to you. Oregon gives you 'starting angles'. Sharpening your own chains you are 'Master of Your Domain'. A lot of very experienced guys sharpen everything '30/60/0' (vise rotation / grinding head tilt / vise tilt). My current default is 30/55/0.

Some .325 chain I use 1/8". Some I use 3/16". Based on what looks right, if the cutter is new or near end of life, etc. I don't keep a list by model number. You get to choose, just like you would with files.

I looked on there website for the grinding angles and they show one angle looking straight at the tooth at eye level being 10 degrees. Is that considered the down angle? What is the purpose of the down angle? How is that achieved on this grinder?

Yes. Keep in mind that different Oregon charts often have different specs for the same chain. Again, these are starting points. Some people will say use the +/- 10 degree angle for full chisel chain only, but I have see Oregon charts that recommend it for many semi-chisel chains. I have heard technical reps state unequivocally that the 10 degree angle makes a significant difference, and many experienced cutters state that is not that noticeable, and not worth the additional effort.

You get to choose. You have the grinder, experiment on some different chains. Just note that if you keep going back and forth on the same chain you will be using up additional metal.

+/- 10 degree angle on this grinder is by Tilting the Chain Vise: loosen up the large hand screw that you use to Rotate the Chain Vise, and you can tilt it forward and back.

Be careful if you loosen it too much as there are 2, small ball bearings on springs under there that act as detents.

When doing rakers with this machine, does the table need to be slid forward? . . . Does the chain need to be flipped to do the opposite rakers?

I have had trouble doing depth gauges on the grinder (kept blueing mine). But generally, you would do both sides facing the same way, with the Vise Rotation set at 0 degrees and the Grinder Head angle as we discussed earlier.

The sliding base you mentioned is only to compensate for grinding wheel wear. When the wheel wears down to the mark on the plastic safety guard, you adjust the base to the mark indicated in the instructions.

I asked Oregon what all of the other marks were for and could not get a clear answer. Must have been for some type of accessory, or something that worked out (my guesses).

Philbert

 

[memory]

I can't believe I did this but I dropped the 5/16" grinder wheel and it busted. Just got the grinder and already have to buy another wheel for it.

On the depth gauges, there is a gauge on the side of the grinder for the table. You can loosen two allen head bolts and slide the whole table forward or back. Would you move the whole table to do the depth gauges so you are using the lowest point of the wheel?

 

[Philbert]

I file my depth gauges, so might not worry about replacing the wheel right away.

On the 511A you would just use the lowest portion of the wheel. I don't have any additional info for the 511AX. Sorry. Maybe someone else can help.

Philbert