Some city slicker that wants to play in the forest.

[RandyMac]

Forestry and logging are like apples, one is green, the other is red. Having a background in forestry can make you a better, more thoughtful faller as you see plenty of logged off sites. You see the good, bad and the ugly and get to set it all on fire. The fire end of forestry has some very interesting aspects, some of the most challenging, dangerous trees I have felled were on fires. Sure fires can be a heap of drudgery and logging can be too.
I won my sawchain filing and bucking spurs on the Bull Creek log jams. The '64 flood piled big logs and whole trees into huge windrows, I sawed them at 16", not many cookies here, they looked like poker chips. There were times when every blessed cut in the bind.

 

[wowzers]

My hope is that being a logger will make me a better forester one day.

 

[madhatte]

Forestry and logging are like apples, one is green, the other is red.

Think I might hafta borrow that one, if you don't mind.

 

[RandyMac]

Think I might hafta borrow that one, if you don't mind.

It is all your's Nate.

 

[tramp bushler]

But , did you learn the trade in some college class , Or were you a timber faller who got on cuttin on a fire because the woods were shut down . ?????????????

 

[RandyMac]

But , did you learn the trade in some college class , Or were you a timber faller who got on cuttin on a fire because the woods were shut down . ?????????????

I didn't learn ####-all in college, didn't go.

I worked both sides, depending on season, between woods jobs or if I just felt like it.
I went into forestry the day after I graduated from high school, was bucking burnt logs on a Bald Hills fire with a McCulloch geardrive later that day.

 

[redprospector]

Hahaha. Come on guy's. Get the chip's off your shoulders. Gee, I check out for a couple of days, and look what happens. Now set all of your yaw fighting aside and hear the truth about foresters & loggers.

There are a lot of foresters that are just flat out jerks, not all, but a good many. Add that to the lower level FS and state employee's that have something to prove, and.....Well, they all have green uniforms. So they all get lumped together.

Most all loggers are rude, crude, socially unacceptable neanderthol's that don't really care if you admire, or respect them. If they're worth their salt, the only thing they're trying to prove is that they can put more wood on the landing than you.

I think that comparing the two is more like apples & oranges.
Unless a logger has worked as a forester for a number of years there are aspects of that job that they just don't comprehend.
On the other side it's the same. If a forester hasn't made a living for a number of years as a logger then there are some things they won't get. Until you've pulled some cable, some things just don't make sence.


Andy

 

[RandyMac]

There are stick up the butt "Foresters" and there are forestry workers, like comparing apples to bananas.

 

[redprospector]

There are stick up the butt "Foresters" and there are forestry workers, like comparing apples to bananas.

Yep, or water mellons.

Andy

 

[tramp bushler]

Randy I'de like to put your opening line in my sig.
"I didn't learn ####all in college , didn't go "

.:msp_biggrin:
More like rotten rutabagas.

 

[RandyMac]

Randy I'de like to put your opening line in my sig.
"I didn't learn ####all in college , didn't go "

.:msp_biggrin:

have at 'er.

 

[tramp bushler]

Well , I guess Matt got a good look at the battle between the gumint boys and the timber beasts . . Havn't seen him post on his own thread in a while .

 

[slowp]

Hahaha. Come on guy's. Get the chip's off your shoulders. Gee, I check out for a couple of days, and look what happens. Now set all of your yaw fighting aside and hear the truth about foresters & loggers.

There are a lot of foresters that are just flat out jerks, not all, but a good many. Add that to the lower level FS and state employee's that have something to prove, and.....Well, they all have green uniforms. So they all get lumped together.

Most all loggers are rude, crude, socially unacceptable neanderthol's that don't really care if you admire, or respect them. If they're worth their salt, the only thing they're trying to prove is that they can put more wood on the landing than you.

I think that comparing the two is more like apples & oranges.
Unless a logger has worked as a forester for a number of years there are aspects of that job that they just don't comprehend.
On the other side it's the same. If a forester hasn't made a living for a number of years as a logger then there are some things they won't get. Until you've pulled some cable, some things just don't make sence.


Andy

And I could reverse this. There are a few loggers out there who are bad loggers, cheats, and just plain crooks. It is amazing that they are still in business. They'll buy a small sale, read the contract and when the logging starts, so does the whining and cheating. Suddenly, the terms of the contract, that they signed and agreed to agree with mean nothing. Suddenly, they seem to have the right to bulldoze across the creek, run amok in an historical/botanical/wildlife etc. site that is OUTSIDE the unit boundary, take a few more trees because they needed more for a load, or just STEAL some trees. When caught, they blame it on the incompetent government. As if they were forced to buy the sale and sign the contract.

A couple of GOOD loggers were asking me about getting jobs with the Forest Service right when the timber market crashed. They wanted to know how much I got paid and what benefits. I told them what my gross salary was. They thought that would do, just barely. I then told them how much my net salary was and the deductions taken out. They lost interest. When one questioned me on my health insurance, he figured that he had better coverage. Dental was not available at that time for us. Maybe it was on some obscure plan. He said it was not at all like he heard. One logger applied for a sale administrator job. He made the top three. He didn't get it. I would have liked to have seen him get it. He would have made good comments in the planning meetings. The guy has a lot of good, common sense. I would have liked to have seen planning meetings with him as a participant. It would have been good entertainment. I could see myself clapping and applauding.

Well , I guess Matt got a good look at the battle between the gumint boys and the timber beasts . . Havn't seen him post on his own thread in a while .

I'm not a boy.

 

[madhatte]

the gumint boys

I started as a subcontractor working for whoever was paying. Gub'mint job was something I had to work into.

 

[Samlock]

And I could reverse this. There are a few loggers out there who are bad loggers, cheats, and just plain crooks. It is amazing that they are still in business. They'll buy a small sale, read the contract and when the logging starts, so does the whining and cheating. Suddenly, the terms of the contract, that they signed and agreed to agree with mean nothing. Suddenly, they seem to have the right to bulldoze across the creek, run amok in an historical/botanical/wildlife etc. site that is OUTSIDE the unit boundary, take a few more trees because they needed more for a load, or just STEAL some trees. When caught, they blame it on the incompetent government. As if they were forced to buy the sale and sign the contract.

A standard procedure.

 

[wyk]

Well, Snowman, looks like you got a mini initiation of what to expect if you work logging vs forestry by the conversations and squabbling you've seen so far here.

If you ask me, and ya did, go in to firefighting first. It will prepare you physically and mentally, and learn ya pretty quick if you like being out in the forest. Get your 6 weeks of certs and take the tests. You may be a bit late for this years bug out tests. I think they usually occur in march or april. I have heard there are openings on some fire crews in the San Juaquin areas. I was offered a position just a couple months ago. However, ya need to be in shape. Firefighting at altitude in 100* weather with zero humidity on the side of a mountain isn't for everyone(whether they get respect or not). Again, it may be a little late. Ya may want to go take some forestry tech courses if the time has passed.

In all honesty, your cousin should at least be able to call around the other chiefs and find if there is a crew somewhere in Cali that has room for a seasonal. I've moved from Texas to Washington to Oregon to Ireland to England back to Washington again in search for work. Let your cousin know you are willing to relocate and see if he can make some calls.

WYK

Hello, My name is Matt, and I was wondering if I could get some guidance from the members of this forum. I came here because I want to know more about the jobs and careers in the mountains. There is something about the Logging/Timber/Forestry industry that calls me, I love the mountains. Always have. I am still young at 21 years old, I got no big commitments right now, no GF's, no babies or a ton of debt. I got means of transportation and lots of determination. I only have a High-school diploma and a few college credits from the local CC and a EMT-B Cert. I feel I am at a crucial time to start doing something I really want to be doing. My main question is how someone like me can get started in this type of industry. Being from a south Orange County, CA surf town, I might seem like an unlikely guy to seek this type of work, however I am itching to get out of this way too crowded place. You can only handle so many Prius's/Commies/PunkRockers/Hipsters/Environmentalists...(so I figured I will piss them off and cut down all the trees) lol. Anyways, As of now, I only have limited knowledge of the Industry, most from reading on sites like this one. I want to learn skills like felling trees, and operating various types of equipment, anything along the logging process from a tree to a 2X4, or any other opportunities those skills can provide for work in the mountains. I also realize that it is a tough business, no job security and back-breaking work. But i'm willing to struggle. I'd rather spend my days working with my hands and getting the satisfaction of my own work. I would appreciate someone showing me the right direction. I have a couple of ideas already. My cousin works for the USFS as a Fire Captain, I have talked to him about wildland firefighting, which seems like a good way to get experience in the forest. They are not aloud to hire family members, so I have been trying to get on to a fire crew with USFS for over a year now. *snip*

Thanks a lot
-Matt

 

[Sagetown]

To the OP: There are plenty of logging jobs here along the Arkansas, Oklahoma border. To the north it's mostly hardwood (oak). In the Mountains to the south it's softwood (pine). Requirements are 1. Chainsaw. 2. Transportation. Education requirements are On Job Training.

My Dad was a California Logger. Before that he was a Junior in highschool at age 21, and got kicked out.

My brother was a California Fire Chief before education was a requirement. During his career he was paid to travel to LA to teach college classes to prospective firefighters the things he learned on the job. It's a crazy mixed up world.

 

[tramp bushler]

Naw , he ought to first take a road trip, get into timber country , do some pokin around and see whats what . What does he relate to most .

First thing he's got t do is get there . Otherwise all this typing is a waste of time .

 

[Gologit]

Logging and/or college.

I'm a logger and I went to college.

I went to college mainly so I wouldn't have to be a logger forever. That, and the fact that my father would have killed me if I hadn't gone. I took a lot of classes and courses totally unrelated to anything that concerned logging...mostly courses that had a lot of pretty girls in them. I graduated from college totally prepared for life in the 17th century.

After college nobody was particularly interested in hiring me so I joined the Army. That was 1967, a really bad time to join the Army.

After the Army I still wasn't very employable in anything that college or the Army had prepared me for....nothing that I wanted to do anyway. There were, however, logging jobs to be had. I caught on as a bucker for a year and then went full time as a faller. I've logged ever since.

Was my college education wasted? Maybe, if you look at it from a purely career preparation standpoint. But college exposed me to different ideas and different types of people that I wouldn't have been around otherwise. In college I learned that different viewpoints and opposing philosophies aren't always a bad thing. College taught me how to think on more than one level and that's stood me in good stead all my life.

Do you need college to be a logger? No, not really. But if you get your entire education from just working in the woods it might not be enough. Being a hard worker will only carry you so far. We live in a world of ever increasing complexity, both social and mechanical. A little college, or even a lot of college, will help you deal with that. Some of the best loggers I know have degrees in forestry.

And maybe in one of those classes with all the pretty girls in them you might discover something that you like better than logging. Can't hurt to find out.

 

[tramp bushler]

No prob with that . But you were IN LOGGIN COUNTRY . . It seems that is the first hurdle .

I mean , you can't even be some @#$%&*+()+*&%$@ environmentalist if your not in timber country .
Even the USFS . The F stands for forest .

I mean , if a guy can't figure that out , maybe he needs to take more classes .
Or , pull his head out.