Spike's 2015 GTG--NOT

[Mastermind]

Another thing to throw out there is the pressure that the GTG "races" put on us guys that build hopped up saws. We hear about this guy that had a stock saw that beat that "pro builders" saw, or how that builders saw beat that other builders saw. The pressure to win for our egos, and our cheerleaders can take all the fun out of GTGs for us. The last thing I wanna see at a GTG is a damn stopwatch. I just want to go have fun like everyone else. A knot in the wood, or a crappy chain, poor tune, etc can make the best running saw look bad. When a GTG becomes a source of stress rather than fun, it's time to do something different.

Rather than compete against each other, Brad and I made an agreement this year that neither of us would enter a saw in the build off......we plan on just enjoying the friends we've made over the years. And the food......I sure hope there's plenty of pie.

 

[spike60]

Another thing to throw out there is the pressure that the GTG "races" put on us guys that build hopped up saws. We hear about this guy that had a stock saw that beat that "pro builders" saw, or how that builders saw beat that other builders saw. The pressure to win for our egos, and our cheerleaders can take all the fun out of GTGs for us. The last thing I wanna see at a GTG is a damn stopwatch. I just want to go have fun like everyone else. A knot in the wood, or a crappy chain, poor tune, etc can make the best running saw look bad. When a GTG becomes a source of stress rather than fun, it's time to do something different.

Rather than compete against each other, Brad and I made an agreement this year that neither of us would enter a saw in the build off......we plan on just enjoying the friends we've made over the years. And the food......I sure hope there's plenty of pie.

Too bad I can only "like" that post once, cause you really nailed it. And there will never be a stopwatch at my GTG's. When the measuring stick comes out the fun goes away and typically gets replaced by a lot of stupid arguing. I know some guys are into the racing thing, but racing means winners and losers, and guys don't like to lose. And if there's a cash prize or something it amps the whole thing up even more.

And there's also a lot on the line business wise for the builders. Established guys like you and Brad have more work than you can handle, but there are always some new guys looking to gain some credibility by showing well. So you and Brad enter a legitimate work saw and some guy looking to make a name for himself enters a race saw that's great in 8" cants, but dies in real wood and wouldn't last a week on a real job.

And the pies Jack Walker gets from Monica's Pies up in the finger lakes are sensational. She makes the best Key Lime pie I've ever had. They don't ship pies, but take a look anyway www.monicaspies.com

 

[Paragon Builder]

Here's how I see it. The numbers are fun to see, it's a point of reference. But if you need a stopwatch to know a saw is ported, it probably wasn't worth it.
When I ran Brett's saws at the ny gtg, I didn't need to grab a stock saw to know they were ported. Same with Mels 024 Randy did. Then Randy did a 460 for me. There is just no question!!
When I'm out cutting wood and a saw changes my silly grin to a great big smile, it's worth every penny!!

 

[Rx7man]

I haven't been to a GTG yet, there haven't been any around here, and seems like little interest as well, though I might have a 'mini gtg' at a friends house this fall

I don't think there's harm in having a stopwatch going once in a while, but money on the table would certainly take the fun out of it.. a bit of friendly competition shouldn't hurt the feel of the gtg, but getting hung up on who wins and loses does. I'm a newbie at this, and for me it's about meeting folks, learning, and having a good time... you learn more by losing than by winning. I have 4 saws of the same model, so I'd bring them all in various stages of porting just for fun...

 

[showrguy]

Another thing to throw out there is the pressure that the GTG "races" put on us guys that build hopped up saws. We hear about this guy that had a stock saw that beat that "pro builders" saw, or how that builders saw beat that other builders saw. The pressure to win for our egos, and our cheerleaders can take all the fun out of GTGs for us. The last thing I wanna see at a GTG is a damn stopwatch. I just want to go have fun like everyone else. A knot in the wood, or a crappy chain, poor tune, etc can make the best running saw look bad. When a GTG becomes a source of stress rather than fun, it's time to do something different.

Rather than compete against each other, Brad and I made an agreement this year that neither of us would enter a saw in the build off......we plan on just enjoying the friends we've made over the years. And the food......I sure hope there's plenty of pie.

Great post Randy,
That's the exact reason I frowned on the stopwatch thing when someone mentioned it in this springs Pa GTG thread....

 

[Derf]

I'm so bummed that I missed it last year at Spike's and this year it's cancelled.

I'm also bummed that for me, AS turned me onto porting saws for extra power, and according to your post ported saws at GTGs are sooo boring.

And I get that half a dozen 372s might be like "ok, what else is there?" for some, but it's also a way for people who are interested in figuring out what makes a better port job.

Yeah, I suppose with games of competition there are winners and losers and nobody likes to lose. But is your answer really to then not have the competitions?

Sorry, I guess everyone else agrees with your sentiments, and I understand where Randy and Brad are concerned about not losing business if a saw they did underperforms, but I'm just really bummed about the whole mentality that was expressed.

 

[Paragon Builder]

you learn more by losing than by winning.

+1
But I get where Randy and Brad are coming from too. They aren't there with the saws they build. And these timed events are so subjective like Randy said that the results may mean nothing.
When Randy sent me back my 460, first thing I did was compare it to a stock 460.
And I was impatient and used an old bar and chain. Bar was binding up in 24" wood and neither saw felt good. Times were negligible better. New bar and chain and let the saw work like it's supposed to and different story.
When this happens at a gtg, people form opinions based on faulty data.

 

[Paragon Builder]

I'm so bummed that I missed it last year at Spike's and this year it's cancelled.

I'm also bummed that for me, AS turned me onto porting saws for extra power, and according to your post ported saws at GTGs are sooo boring.

And I get that half a dozen 372s might be like "ok, what else is there?" for some, but it's also a way for people who are interested in figuring out what makes a better port job.

Yeah, I suppose with games of competition there are winners and losers and nobody likes to lose. But is your answer really to then not have the competitions?

Sorry, I guess everyone else agrees with your sentiments, and I understand where Randy and Brad are concerned about not losing business if a saw they did underperforms, but I'm just really bummed about the whole mentality that was expressed.

Come on down to Norwich in Nov. and maybe we will have some good healthy competition. It all depends who and what show up....
Mustang mike had a good idea for one in the gtg thread

 

[Rx7man]

+1
But I get where Randy and Brad are coming from too. They aren't there with the saws they build. And these timed events are so subjective like Randy said that the results may mean nothing.
When Randy sent me back my 460, first thing I did was compare it to a stock 460.
And I was impatient and used an old bar and chain. Bar was binding up in 24" wood and neither saw felt good. Times were negligible better. New bar and chain and let the saw work like it's supposed to and different story.
When this happens at a gtg, people form opinions based on faulty data.

yeah, and some people are going to form biased opinions based on Piltz's youtube vids too. I can see the pro builders not wanting it for that reason though.

I have to build a saw dyno... I have a big 400 lb balanced flywheel (24" around) that on some good bearings would make a nice load for a saw... it would only be good for 'relative' measurements and not absolute numbers of course, but showing torque curves of saws can tell you a lot of how it will behave in different sizes of wood.

 

[taplinhill]

And I get that half a dozen 372s might be like "ok, what else is there?" for some, but it's also a way for people who are interested in figuring out what makes a better port job.

I think his point is that most of the builders aren't there. You can say "Builder A"s 372 is better or worse than "Builder B"s 372, but without those guys there you won't know why.

 

[weimedog]

 

[weimedog]

Another thing to throw out there is the pressure that the GTG "races" put on us guys that build hopped up saws. We hear about this guy that had a stock saw that beat that "pro builders" saw, or how that builders saw beat that other builders saw. The pressure to win for our egos, and our cheerleaders can take all the fun out of GTGs for us. The last thing I wanna see at a GTG is a damn stopwatch. I just want to go have fun like everyone else. A knot in the wood, or a crappy chain, poor tune, etc can make the best running saw look bad. When a GTG becomes a source of stress rather than fun, it's time to do something different.

Rather than compete against each other, Brad and I made an agreement this year that neither of us would enter a saw in the build off......we plan on just enjoying the friends we've made over the years. And the food......I sure hope there's plenty of pie.

Its all in the chain...

 

[weimedog]

Thought I ought to put this up as guys are planning what GTG's they are going to this fall. We've got so much going on here right now that we are going to take a year off. All good stuff, but a little too much stuff. Instead of the usual "I can't wait til the GTG", it's been more of a "Geez, we gotta do that saw thing again already". Even the guy who takes all the cookies sold his OWB, and we don't have a destination for all those things! Therefore I thought I should pass this on so that guys planning to come here may want to consider going to Lee's or the Norwich, CT event.

But it's also gotten a little stale the last 2 years and I want to change the direction a little bit and expand the participation. To me the high $ ported saws are a little over represented anymore. Yeah their fun and all, but if that's all that's there, it's boring. We end up with too many of the same handful of Husky and Stihl models, built by the same handful of builders. A half dozen 372's built by the same guy is interesting? If it wasn't for Lee, JP, the guys from the Cutting Edge and a couple others, we'd have very little variety here.

One result of all this is that I think a lot of guys with stock or DIY builds think that they don't have a saw that's cool or interesting enough, and that it's not about them. WRONG. You are the guys we want to see more of. Part of the reason we do GTG's is to exchange and share information. That's how we all learn and pick up ideas for our next project. And let's be honest, a guy who built his own saw adds more to the conversation than a guy who wrote a check. So, whether you build a stock saw or you did some mods at home, that work ought to be appreciated just as much as a saw built by a pro with expensive machine tools.

Same goes for guys with stock and older saws. It's about you too. A 70E or 038 Mag that's run it's bar through hundreds of cords of wood over the years has earned a different kind of respect than the latest and greatest bling saw. Your first saw, a saw you inherited from your Dad, the one saw that did all your work before CAD set in. , the less common models and brands, the Macs and Homies that can still get it done. Those saws all tell a little different story that should be part of what we are doing here.

So, We're gonna take a year off, and get back on the program next year. Gonna miss those donuts though.

You know my opinion I think

 

[Rx7man]

Its all in the chain...

run the same chain on all the saws.. yes the chain makes a huge difference! Wasn't there a 288 buildoff where the only allowed chain was untouched RS? that takes one variable out of the equation, though it may not truly reflect where a saw will shine.

 

[Hinerman]

I'm so bummed that I missed it last year at Spike's and this year it's cancelled.

I'm also bummed that for me, AS turned me onto porting saws for extra power, and according to your post ported saws at GTGs are sooo boring.

And I get that half a dozen 372s might be like "ok, what else is there?" for some, but it's also a way for people who are interested in figuring out what makes a better port job.

Yeah, I suppose with games of competition there are winners and losers and nobody likes to lose. But is your answer really to then not have the competitions?

Sorry, I guess everyone else agrees with your sentiments, and I understand where Randy and Brad are concerned about not losing business if a saw they did underperforms, but I'm just really bummed about the whole mentality that was expressed.

Me too....thank you

 

[Paragon Builder]

yeah, and some people are going to form biased opinions based on Piltz's youtube vids too. I can see the pro builders not wanting it for that reason though.

I have to build a saw dyno... I have a big 400 lb balanced flywheel (24" around) that on some good bearings would make a nice load for a saw... it would only be good for 'relative' measurements and not absolute numbers of course, but showing torque curves of saws can tell you a lot of how it will behave in different sizes of wood.

Nice! I've been thinking of building one myself. I'd like to before I start porting my saws so I can gauge what makes how much difference.

 

[Paragon Builder]

Ported saws at Gtg's aren't boring to me!
I can't wait to port some of my own and share them at a gtg. Not this year though[emoji20]

 

[olyman]

I think you hit a great point with newer members/members with stock saws not feeling like they should attend. I felt hesitation at first but just about every AS member that I've met and/or done business with have been great folks. Everyone should attend where they can and get to know their AS "neighbors".

and you already know,,where you will be next spring,right????

 

[weimedog]

I think his point is that most of the builders aren't there. You can say "Builder A"s 372 is better or worse than "Builder B"s 372, but without those guys there you won't know why.

Honestly out side of here who really cares? I think the point is it shouldn't just be about the builders as they are just one facet of this community. It should be about the folks who are customers and / or are enthusiasts and enjoy working on their saws as well. Builders would be welcome I'm certain as they are also a part of that community and have some pretty cool stuff...in my most humble opinion the focus needs to be on the 90 percent of the saw user population, many who never even visit places like this but are out there slugging away with their saws. But as this thread has shown, because of this cyber world reality its easy to slip yet again into that as a focus because it is the focus here in cyber space. I have yet to run into a logger out here who runs heavily modded saws or has them in their work rotations. But they have real interesting stories to tell and there are a LOT more of them out there than folks like us. Their reality is different than ours and I would like to see and hear more from that group and the dealers who support them.

I personally would like to see more focus on the craft, wood craft. Hear folks war stories, how they solved issue be it cutting or mechanical. Celebrate the successes of the typical saw user as there are many

 

[taplinhill]

The big question is...........................
How do you make a GTG into something different? I love hearing the old stories and seeing the old saws, but how do you get them out?
Spike must have a plan.