Splitter Problem-Filter Blew(Pic)
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mga
wandering
so...how does he get the bubble out?
michigander
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Today I took the cylinder off of stationary end and pushed it ahead a little, then I could turn cylinder and get hydraulic fittings on top of the cylinder. They were located on the side. I used the lever and cycled thru a couple times, then reinstalled it. I went to the local implement dealer and ordered a 1" hose that I will use as the return line. It is supposed to be rated to 500 psi. I would think the filter that split would take at least 80 psi, so it likely split with pressure over a 100. I used splitter for about 2 hours today, worked good. I stayed away from the huge pieces, but I did split some 12-14 inch ash. Some even had hidden knots and it worked good. Hopefully when I get bigger return on everything will be fine. I will post some pic's of today's splitting.
michigander
Addicted to ArboristSite
Today's Splitting
Here are the pic's from today. I started out wanting to just start motor up and warm up oil and change, because it was a used motor. When I had it changed, I started to gradually split. Hoping it wouldn't blow again. But it worked fine. Like I said in previous post, I ordered a 1" line per timbrjackrussel and cmetalbend recomendation. I will put new return hose on tomorrow. I might not know for a while if "WE" found the problem. Again, "Thanks" for everyones help.
Here are the pic's from today. I started out wanting to just start motor up and warm up oil and change, because it was a used motor. When I had it changed, I started to gradually split. Hoping it wouldn't blow again. But it worked fine. Like I said in previous post, I ordered a 1" line per timbrjackrussel and cmetalbend recomendation. I will put new return hose on tomorrow. I might not know for a while if "WE" found the problem. Again, "Thanks" for everyones help.
beerman6
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If you want to work on your splitting technique,you're more than welcome to come over Sunday and practice on my pile. :monkey:
michigander
Addicted to ArboristSite
Beerman6, By the time I get all my tops cut up and split, I will be an expert. At least I hope so, but nice try!
timbrjackrussel
ArboristSite Guru
1 inch base hose
I used 1 inch single wire hydraulic hose 1,255 pounds per square inch, but any hose rated for oil and temp. should be OK. As seen in my pictures it has only one 90 degree turn and then through the filter base with a pressure by-pass. The ball valve is wired open and only closed when changing the filter so as not to leak out fluid. If the valve is left closed you get a filter looking just like yours!!!! Fluid enters the tank under the surface. I hope that you have a magnetic plug on the tank bottom and an intake suction screen on the pump intake, #100 mesh. The fluid level should be higher than the pump so the pump never starts dry. My old splitter is 15 years old and I have only replaced the pressure hoses last year just because. 10 horse Honda on 16 GPM 2 stage pump.
I used 1 inch single wire hydraulic hose 1,255 pounds per square inch, but any hose rated for oil and temp. should be OK. As seen in my pictures it has only one 90 degree turn and then through the filter base with a pressure by-pass. The ball valve is wired open and only closed when changing the filter so as not to leak out fluid. If the valve is left closed you get a filter looking just like yours!!!! Fluid enters the tank under the surface. I hope that you have a magnetic plug on the tank bottom and an intake suction screen on the pump intake, #100 mesh. The fluid level should be higher than the pump so the pump never starts dry. My old splitter is 15 years old and I have only replaced the pressure hoses last year just because. 10 horse Honda on 16 GPM 2 stage pump.
beerman6
Addicted to ArboristSite
We could have a split off.goldtrak
ArboristSite Lurker
Move filter
You should move the filter to the inlet hose from the tank to the pump this line does not have any pressure also filter will clean oil on its way to the pump this will fix your trouble.
You should move the filter to the inlet hose from the tank to the pump this line does not have any pressure also filter will clean oil on its way to the pump this will fix your trouble.
Blazin
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ding..Ding.. We have a winner! I just have a strainer in the tank on mine, But if I was to put a filter on it, the suction line to the pump is the place. Good luck where ever you put it..Nothing worse than a oil bath!
A little filter info-
If the oil tank is clean and the return line 10 micron filter is piped into the tank - then all oil is filtered that goes back to the tank. Inlet filter is not required since the hydraulic oil will not contain particles large enough to be captured by the coarser mesh strainer.
If the oil tank is clean and the return line 10 micron filter is piped into the tank - then all oil is filtered that goes back to the tank. Inlet filter is not required since the hydraulic oil will not contain particles large enough to be captured by the coarser mesh strainer.
user 19670
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NOT a good idea.
There is a reason that the inlet of the pump is protected by a strainer. It stands little chance of clogging while it protects the pump from larger particles that may find their way into the supply tank. Also there is little chance of creating a vacuum in the suction line, resulting in a collapsed hose and/or strainer. As well, the return pressure is sure to be a good many times what can be realized by suction and that pressure is what the filter bypass relys on to work properly (if at all).
The proper place for a hydraulic filter is in the return line to the supply tank.
Ding..Ding.. We have a winner! I just have a strainer in the tank on mine, But if I was to put a filter on it, the suction line to the pump is the place. Good luck where ever you put it..Nothing worse than a oil bath
no, no no! use the search function for other threads, for the long discussions. Pressure line side can be 50 psi pushing through the filtr. Suction is limited to 14 psi atmospheric, and the pump will cavitate and be damaged at maybe 5 to 7 psi restriction.
Use a good return line filter, bigger hoses, air out, and you shoudl be good.
The way you rolled cyl ports up took the air out, perfect.
But do check the suction side for air leaks, as the more I think about it, I don't think air in the cylinder did the damage. If you never went into retract mode, the cylinder nevr got connected to tank. The only place for compressed/aerated fluid is between pump and relief valve, which is then sent to tank when lever goes back to open centered neutral. And the only way for that to be aerated is with a steady supply of sucking air. Any air in hoses from the build is pushed out as soon as pump runs.
I really like those trays....
k
no, no no! use the search function for other threads, for the long discussions. Pressure line side can be 50 psi pushing through the filtr. Suction is limited to 14 psi atmospheric, and the pump will cavitate and be damaged at maybe 5 to 7 psi restriction.
Use a good return line filter, bigger hoses, air out, and you shoudl be good.
The way you rolled cyl ports up took the air out, perfect.
But do check the suction side for air leaks, as the more I think about it, I don't think air in the cylinder did the damage. If you never went into retract mode, the cylinder nevr got connected to tank. The only place for compressed/aerated fluid is between pump and relief valve, which is then sent to tank when lever goes back to open centered neutral. And the only way for that to be aerated is with a steady supply of sucking air. Any air in hoses from the build is pushed out as soon as pump runs.
I really like those trays....
k
timbrjackrussel
ArboristSite Guru
Filter types and locations
http://hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/FPE/FluidCleanlines/Article/True/6435/FluidCleanlines
Read Filter types and locations
http://hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/FPE/FluidCleanlines/Article/True/6435/FluidCleanlines
Read Filter types and locations
goldtrak
ArboristSite Lurker
I agree that you can put a filter on the return line it just has to have the psi rating to not blow. I also know it can be put on the suction side lower psi looking at the picture the filter looks like a low pressure filter.
user 19670
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It takes horsepower to force cold hydraulic fluid through a 25 micron filter and you simply cannot get that amount of force from the suction of a pump. The pressure relief valve is not in the filter but is in the spin-on adapter and I doubt that you can find one that will work within the limits of 14 psi or less.
Please do not instruct anyone to put a filter in the suction line.
Where is the filter on your car/truck engine? It is in the pressure line. There is a pickup on the suction of the oil pump that has a screen (strainer) on it.
The proper place for the filter is in a pressure line and the line that makes the most sense for hydraulic circuits is the return line to the storage tank.
michigander
Addicted to ArboristSite
Excerpts from Timbrjackrussel's link
Filter types and locations
The type of filter - suction, return, pressure, or off-line - and its physical location in the circuit are almost inseparable by definition.
Suction filters serve to protect the pump from fluid contamination. They are located upstream from the pump's inlet port. Some may be simple inlet strainers, submersed in fluid in the tank. Others may be mounted externally. In either case, suction filters have relatively coarse elements, due to cavitation limitations of pumps. (Some pump manufactures do not recommend the use of a suction filter. Always consult the pump manufacturer for inlet restrictions.) For this reason, suction filters are not used as a system's primary protection against contamination, and in fact, the use of suction strainers and filters has greatly decreased in modern hydraulic equipment.
Return filters may be the best choice if the pump is particularly sensitive to contamination. In most systems, the return filter is the last component through which fluid passes before entering the reservoir. Therefore, it captures wear debris from all of the system's working components and any particles that enter through worn cylinder rod seals before such contaminant can enter the reservoir and be pumped back into the system. Because this filter is located immediately upstream from the reservoir, its pressure rating and cost can be relatively low.
Note that retracting some cylinders with large diameter rods may result in flow multiplication. This high return-line flow rate may open the filter bypass valve, allowing unfiltered fluid to pass downstream. This probably is an undesirable condition and should be considered when specifying the filter.
Filter types and locations
The type of filter - suction, return, pressure, or off-line - and its physical location in the circuit are almost inseparable by definition.
Suction filters serve to protect the pump from fluid contamination. They are located upstream from the pump's inlet port. Some may be simple inlet strainers, submersed in fluid in the tank. Others may be mounted externally. In either case, suction filters have relatively coarse elements, due to cavitation limitations of pumps. (Some pump manufactures do not recommend the use of a suction filter. Always consult the pump manufacturer for inlet restrictions.) For this reason, suction filters are not used as a system's primary protection against contamination, and in fact, the use of suction strainers and filters has greatly decreased in modern hydraulic equipment.
Return filters may be the best choice if the pump is particularly sensitive to contamination. In most systems, the return filter is the last component through which fluid passes before entering the reservoir. Therefore, it captures wear debris from all of the system's working components and any particles that enter through worn cylinder rod seals before such contaminant can enter the reservoir and be pumped back into the system. Because this filter is located immediately upstream from the reservoir, its pressure rating and cost can be relatively low.
Note that retracting some cylinders with large diameter rods may result in flow multiplication. This high return-line flow rate may open the filter bypass valve, allowing unfiltered fluid to pass downstream. This probably is an undesirable condition and should be considered when specifying the filter.
goldtrak
ArboristSite Lurker
Car engines do not have as much psi as hydraulic systems, Also when running hydraulic systems oil temp can be 100 degrees hotter than air temp.
michigander
Addicted to ArboristSite
Another good read I found
Hydraulic filters that do more harm than good - Part 2
In response to my previous article on hydraulic filters and the negative effects of suction strainers, one of our readers wrote the following:
"The one thing a suction strainer does that's worthwhile is to keep out the trash that gets dropped into the tank during service. We lost pumps to things like bolts that we know were not in the tank when it got built. The process of adding hydraulic fluid to the tank often doubles as the trash-installation function. The screens that are often installed in the fill neck usually get a hole poked through them so that oil will go in faster..."
A couple of years ago, I was involved in a case where the seals failed in the swivel on a hydraulic excavator. This allowed the automatic greasing system to pump grease into the hydraulic reservoir.
The grease clogged the suction strainers, which subsequently failed. The wire mesh from the suction strainers destroyed all four hydraulic pumps and several other components.
Had suction strainers not been fitted, it is likely that the grease would have eventually dissolved in the hydraulic fluid with minimal damage to any components.
My point is, I don't use this example as an argument against fitting suction strainers - because grease should not be in the reservoir.
Likewise, I do not consider trash exclusion to be a valid argument for fitting suction strainers - because nuts, bolts or similar debris should not be in the reservoir.
The sloppy operators that allow trash to drop into the reservoir are the same operators that never drain and clean the reservoir, and change the suction strainer. So the suction strainer clogs eventually and the pump fails through cavitation. Therefore, with or without the suction strainer, the pump is destined to fail prematurely.
The correct solution is not to allow trash to get into the reservoir. And this is fundamental to my recommendation to remove and discard suction strainers, where fitted.
Excessive vacuum at the pump inlet caused by suction strainers is a bigger threat to pump life in the long run, than trash that shouldn't be in the reservoir in the first place.
Hydraulic filters that do more harm than good - Part 2
In response to my previous article on hydraulic filters and the negative effects of suction strainers, one of our readers wrote the following:
"The one thing a suction strainer does that's worthwhile is to keep out the trash that gets dropped into the tank during service. We lost pumps to things like bolts that we know were not in the tank when it got built. The process of adding hydraulic fluid to the tank often doubles as the trash-installation function. The screens that are often installed in the fill neck usually get a hole poked through them so that oil will go in faster..."
A couple of years ago, I was involved in a case where the seals failed in the swivel on a hydraulic excavator. This allowed the automatic greasing system to pump grease into the hydraulic reservoir.
The grease clogged the suction strainers, which subsequently failed. The wire mesh from the suction strainers destroyed all four hydraulic pumps and several other components.
Had suction strainers not been fitted, it is likely that the grease would have eventually dissolved in the hydraulic fluid with minimal damage to any components.
My point is, I don't use this example as an argument against fitting suction strainers - because grease should not be in the reservoir.
Likewise, I do not consider trash exclusion to be a valid argument for fitting suction strainers - because nuts, bolts or similar debris should not be in the reservoir.
The sloppy operators that allow trash to drop into the reservoir are the same operators that never drain and clean the reservoir, and change the suction strainer. So the suction strainer clogs eventually and the pump fails through cavitation. Therefore, with or without the suction strainer, the pump is destined to fail prematurely.
The correct solution is not to allow trash to get into the reservoir. And this is fundamental to my recommendation to remove and discard suction strainers, where fitted.
Excessive vacuum at the pump inlet caused by suction strainers is a bigger threat to pump life in the long run, than trash that shouldn't be in the reservoir in the first place.
cabinman
ArboristSite Guru
Cylinder position
Kevinj,. Ive repaired, and opperated countless #s of off road equipment, I never had a problem with air after a few full cycles,.. FULL cycles,.. bumping the pop off in both directions,. It (never) mattered what position the cylinder was in , air was not a problem,. Iam curious how rolling a horiziontal cylinder 90 degs makes a difference,. Thanks Eric
Kevinj,. Ive repaired, and opperated countless #s of off road equipment, I never had a problem with air after a few full cycles,.. FULL cycles,.. bumping the pop off in both directions,. It (never) mattered what position the cylinder was in , air was not a problem,. Iam curious how rolling a horiziontal cylinder 90 degs makes a difference,. Thanks Eric
