Square filing. Who has tried, and given up?

[Gypo Logger]

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TN_rzTVkpss&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TN_rzTVkpss&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Good vid parrisw.
It would be interesting to see all the variables that were used in the comparison, like how well the round chain was filed, raker height and if the same saw was used and whether the same operator did the cutting.
Sometimes testing can be skewed in favour of the results that are desired.

John

 

[BobL]

I don't know anything about the wood down under, but I have cut quite a bit of dead Mesquite out of cat piles and it did ok. If your wood is much harder than that you aren't cutting wood, more like stones with a canopy.

Andy

Mesquite is 2300 lbs force Janka hardness when 12% MC which is the same as Osage orange. This is around the hardness of some the stuff I cut when its green. I posted an extensive list of Aussie tree hardensses back in mid June - here is a link.

In addition to sheer hardness a lot of our trees come under water stress and one of their coping mechanisms is to pull up silica which as MCW points out makes the wood very abrasive. In terms of square ground chain it rubs the tip off the point after cutting about 10 sq ft of cut. Most of what I do is milling and when milling an 8 ft x 4 ft slab the square chain out cuts round ground for the first 1/3rd of the slab, it then cuts slower and slower so sometimes by the time I get 2/3rds of the way through the cut I have had to back the mill out of the cut and re-sharpen - with the round ground I make it to the end of the cut without having to do this. For round ground I touch up after every tank full or 32 sqft which ever comes first. For square ground I've found it is less than half this.

 

[parrisw]

Good vid parrisw.
It would be interesting to see all the variables that were used in the comparison, like how well the round chain was filed, raker height and if the same saw was used and whether the same operator did the cutting.
Sometimes testing can be skewed in favour of the results that are desired.

John

Yes, I agree, it looked like it was done pretty even though, the cutting that is.

 

[gallegosmike]

Who has tried, and given up?

It is a case of wanting to. But doing my homework and finding out it would be a giant waste of time. Andy, is the pinon in your neck of pretty clean? The stuff I've got access to is pretty dirty stuff, lots of dirt and sand. It is almost as dirty / gritty as juniper. That stuff eats up stihl RS and RSC chains for dinner. I've given up on full chisel in favor of semi-chisel chain.

I am writting this post sitting in a cabin in pagosa springs co, the area has tons of large ponderosa pines. Heck, there is a nice sized ponderosa pine (90ft x 26") next to the window. I can see that it is nice and clean compared to scrub trees that I cut for firewood.

Mike

 

[forestryworks]

I am writting this post sitting in a cabin in pagosa springs co, the area has tons of large ponderosa pines. Heck, there is a nice sized ponderosa pine (90ft x 26") next to the window. I can see that it is nice and clean compared to scrub trees that I cut for firewood.

Mike

That's a nice area you're in Mike.

 

[komatsuvarna]

Ive thought about trying it. All I cut is hard woods, and i was told that the square grind was more for soft woods and that I was wasting my time and money on it. Nobody around here even knows what square grind chain is, much less how to use/sharpen it. I use oregon jgx/lpx and I cant complain.

Id like to see a video of round chisel vs Square. HINT HINT

 

[andrethegiant70]

I found square filing difficult and gave up. A well filed round chain is much better than a poorly filed square chain, but I'd like to try a goofy file, as it eliminates one angle less than square.
John

John, you kinda nailed it for me. Our conditions out here are pretty gritty also. But carry on, Red, it's a darned good subject.

 

[AZLOGGER]

John, you kinda nailed it for me. Our conditions out here are pretty gritty also. But carry on, Red, it's a darned good subject.

Well andrethegiant this winter you will have a lot of that seasoned (pre-tested) firewood to cut (Shultz Fire). Keep the saws tuned up and the chains sharp!

 

[mdavlee]

Here is the video I made back in the early spring comapring my hand filing to each other. Square chain first.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/z3RNU-gt7x0&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/z3RNU-gt7x0&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/e0i_NQl_MvM&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/e0i_NQl_MvM&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

 

[komatsuvarna]

Great videos mdavlee!!!!! Best i could tell it looked like 18 seconds for both chains. Is that a 390? It sure rips.

 

[mdavlee]

No that was the 372 that I traded off to elim on here. It the 390 and a 7900 were all within a second of each other in that wood. That was the first freehand chain I did that equaled the round.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Good videos. It proves that sq. is potentially faster than round. It just depends on how good one is at filing or grinding.
In the vid it looked like the round was cutting more aggressively. Sq. is potentially faster because it tends to cut the fibre clean as opposed to tearing it, thus realizing more power out of the motor. That's what makes sq.faster if filed/ground correctly.
John

 

[mdavlee]

Out of the box square vs what I filed round on the same kinds of chain I was beating the square with my round. Now they're even and hopefully the square will be faster.

 

[gallegosmike]

That's a nice area you're in Mike.

It is a nice place to get away from new mexico. We have a cabin on the lake in the area around piedra rd. Do you come up here much?

Mike

 

[gallegosmike]

Here is the video I made back in the early spring comapring my hand filing to each other. Square chain first.

Where did you find semi-skip round chain? I can't find it anywhere!

Mike

 

[forestryworks]

It is a nice place to get away from new mexico. We have a cabin on the lake in the area around piedra rd. Do you come up here much?

Mike

It's been several years since I've been to that part of CO. I'd love to go back there soon.

Headed to the Enchanted Circle end of this month.

 

[mdavlee]

Where did you find semi-skip round chain? I can't find it anywhere!

Mike

I got it from madsens or baileys. Madsens has the buy one get one free. There is no one local to me that sells any square ground. The stihl dealer said they would order it and it was over $30 for a 24" chain.

 

[parrisw]

I'm using the old Pferd double bevel's, I've heard good things about the Save edge files but have never tried them. For someone just starting out I recomend an 8" goofy file.

Andy

Andy is these the ones you mean?

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=638+1080&catID=

How do these work with the sides rounded a little?

 

[Gypo Logger]

Speaking of chain, I smartened up my 359, cleaned the filtre and set the carb, wow, I'm sure it made the blow downs piss their roots! Hat off to saw mods!
John

value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/H7vaYOIKWYY&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

 

[outdoorlivin247]

I have been playing w/ it myself just for the wonderful world of GTG's...

Everything I had around here was round chain so I played a little w/ the grinder, then the file...I have been using a double bevel file which I don't feel is hard to get the hang of, but don't have a good guide to go by...

I have an old granburg that will hold square files also, but feel freehand is easier...

I guess my biggest issue is the angles...I have read what angles are best and just don't understand why?......On round 30° is best but they say 22° on square?...Why so much difference?...