Stihl 044 rebuild

[Lakeside53]

I think im just gonna get a new piston and rings for the older one. The newer one needs a new connecting rod bearing and then the crank would be good to go. How much will the bearings set me back?

There is no connecting rod bearing... it's part of the crank assy.

The piston pin bearing is replacable and cheap (relatively).

 

[Freakingstang]

can't replace the rod bearing....Gonna need a crank....

Sounds like an expensive rebuild...I'd find a crushed or smashed saw and use your good parts on it....

my .02

 

[Sparky_NY]

$70, but stihl high...

Curious about the crank bearings.... Are they non-standard ball bearings made to special dimensions for Stihl? Ball bearings are pretty standardized and cheap, EXCEPT when a manufacturer has them made special for them, ie narrower than standard, so the customer HAS to buy them from the manufacturer.

Also curious about the con rod large end bearing... pretty standard in motorcycle/snowmobile motors to press the cranks apart, replace the bearings, press back, dial indicate true. Then they grind a tiny recess at the pin and put a spot weld so nothing moves after just to be on the safe side. I could think of a few reasons they may not do this on Stihl's... bearing isn't available, crank pin maybe damaged when bearing failed etc. "Stihl" curious why this method isn't used on chainsaw cranks????
I understand a dealer can't go to a bearing supply house and must use factory parts regardless, thats not the issue. I'm talking a guy rebuilding a saw needs a 6mm bolt, 30 cents locally or $1.75 on the dealers parts list, same bolt different sources. I used to work at a large bearing supply house, special OEM bearings were common, but many manufacturers used standard off the shelf bearings also.

 

[rupedoggy]

Good for you Sparky. Thinking out side the box is not common on this site. Those bearing are indeed available at bearing supply houses. If you can press apart the crank you can also fix the problem. The regulars here have never done it and have convinced each other that it is somehow voodoo and not possible.
Now having said that, it is not easy. The crank is under tremendous, interference, forced fit. On that saw it may be that the crank pin is part of the crank and not a separate pin like on the M/Cs you are used to. As you mentioned the parts must be assembled back to the same exact position for balance. If you have a press and jig why not take it apart and see? You can even turn down the crank pin or weld it and make it standard again or machine it for a new pin (make it three piece). Heat treating issues, $60/hr work, safety and insurance just make this job to risky/expensive for the shops. I think that is part of the reason they say it can't be done. It can, but not easily. Mike

 

[Freakingstang]

Good for you Sparky. Thinking out side the box is not common on this site. Those bearing are indeed available at bearing supply houses. If you can press apart the crank you can also fix the problem. The regulars here have never done it and have convinced each other that it is somehow voodoo and not possible.
Now having said that, it is not easy. The crank is under tremendous, interference, forced fit. On that saw it may be that the crank pin is part of the crank and not a separate pin like on the M/Cs you are used to. As you mentioned the parts must be assembled back to the same exact position for balance. If you have a press and jig why not take it apart and see? You can even turn down the crank pin or weld it and make it standard again or machine it for a new pin (make it three piece). Heat treating issues, $60/hr work, safety and insurance just make this job to risky/expensive for the shops. I think that is part of the reason they say it can't be done. It can, but not easily. Mike

Good post Mike. After I spent 300 bucks ona 372 crank to have the rod bearing replacced...I found it more practical to not try to tear them apart. I've never has a stihl crank apart... If I had the propper tools to do it myself in a propper, professional matter, I would attempt more.

I've said it before, as A mustang nut I know this all too well....Anything can be done, with the right amount of money.

 

[thompson1600]

I use FAG or SKF bearings for the flywheel sides. An 044 takes a generic ABEC C3 bearing (I remove the shields). It is the generic 6202 size and should cost 5-7 bucks.

However, on the clutch side, the oil seal fits into the bearing on the milled area. I haven't been able to find a replacement for that. Does anyone have a method for putting in the oil seals on the generic 6202 bearing on that side? It's the same outside and inside size, just doesn't have the correct milled area for the oil seal.

Tom

 

[Sparky_NY]

I use FAG or SKF bearings for the flywheel sides. An 044 takes a generic ABEC C3 bearing (I remove the shields). It is the generic 6202 size and should cost 5-7 bucks.

However, on the clutch side, the oil seal fits into the bearing on the milled area. I haven't been able to find a replacement for that. Does anyone have a method for putting in the oil seals on the generic 6202 bearing on that side? It's the same outside and inside size, just doesn't have the correct milled area for the oil seal.

Tom

Not sure what you mean by "milled area". I have not had a stihl apart. There is such a thing as a ball bearing with a extended inner race. (the inner race extended out further than the OD) I'd be real curious to see what you mean if you have a camera and could post a pic here.

$300 to take a crank apart and replace the bearing!!!!! Maybe I should get into doing this as a service! LOL Its not that big of a deal once the crank is out in your hand. As mentioned, its a very tight press fit. You need a hydraulic press, 25 ton or so. Aligning after pressing back together is a matter of suspending the crank between V-blocks and dial indicating it until the ends do not run out. A dead blow hammer is used for alignment. The spot welds are not absolutely necessary (factorys don't do it) but insures things will not move. The ones I have done were on racing motorcycles that turned bunches of rpms and the welds were for insurance.

Hopefully Lakeside will chime in and let us know if rod bearings are available. They are more likely to be something unusual.

 

[RiverRat2]

just a thought......

Ive bought several items from this guy and he is ligit

http://cgi.ebay.com/STIHL-044-CASE-...egoryZ20538QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item7729861630

 

[thompson1600]

You are correct that the outer race is extended beyond the normal (it's wider than a standard 6202 bearing). The oil seal fits on the inside of this extension of the bearing. Hope that helps visualize it, I am not sure if I have any 044 bearings around or not. I'll check tonight to see if I can photo one.

Again, this is only on the clutch side. The flywheel side will use a standard 6202 no problem.

Tom

 

[ktoom]

Im just gonna part out everything on ebay. That way i can get some money back.

 

[Spiderhole]

If that picture was in black and white it would look like an HR Geiger painting. It's a modern art masterpiece

you be the judge...

I am thinking if you can find some cheap bearings, and do the seals, you should get at and solve the problem. If it is in need of a complete rebuild anyways, you might just be better off doing the full job at once. Is this the kind of stihl that in the process you might be able to change the top end out to the next size up? I am still learning here about these saws, but have done some 2 stroke work.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Is this the kind of stihl that in the process you might be able to change the top end out to the next size up?

Nope.

You can do that with the 210 (210/230/250) series, the 290 (290/310/390) series, 056 Standard and Super, but not MagII...couple of others.

 

[ktoom]

i just took my other saw apart. As i took off the clutch i found, what looked to be, new bearings and seals.... but they didn't have the stihl name on it like my other saw did. How can you tell if the cylinder is an after market kit? It doesn't say stihl on it like my other cylinder did. I think this saw might have been rebuilt already? It has 140 PSI for compression. Maybe i should just get a set of new rings for it if the bottom end is still good?

 

[rmihalek]

Does it say Mahle down where the jug bolts to the case? The aftermarket jug on my 028 is from Mahle.

 

[Erick]

Interesting,

Does anyone know if there is a generic equivalent for the flywheel side crank bearing on an 084? Thinking of tearing mine down this winter, thinking of having it ported maybe, but that may be for another thread.

I know all of the things like bearings, seals, nuts, bolts, etc. are supplied by other companies, but they are built to stihls standards. So my question would be; are the generic bearings as good as Stihl, what are the better brands of generic? Does anyone know who supplies Stihls bearings?

Are all of the bottom end connecting rod bearings non-replaceable on all Stihls?

I know, I know, to many questions. I'll shut up and listen now.

Just soaking up the knowledgeopcorn:

Thanks E.

 

[Sparky_NY]

Interesting,

Does anyone know if there is a generic equivalent for the flywheel side crank bearing on an 084? Thinking of tearing mine down this winter, thinking of having it ported maybe, but that may be for another thread.

I know all of the things like bearings, seals, nuts, bolts, etc. are supplied by other companies, but they are built to stihls standards. So my question would be; are the generic bearings as good as Stihl, what are the better brands of generic? Does anyone know who supplies Stihls bearings?

Are all of the bottom end connecting rod bearings non-replaceable on all Stihls?

I know, I know, to many questions. I'll shut up and listen now.

Just soaking up the knowledgeopcorn:

Thanks E.

There are cheap poor bearings but a bearing supply house wouldn't carry them anyways. Someone mentioned SKF, FAG bearings, those are two good name brands there are many more. As for being built to "Stihl standards", that is just what manufacturers want you to believe, so you pay the big buck for their parts. The name brand bearing manufacturers really know their stuff. What DOES happen frequently is a equipment manufacturers engineering group selects the WRONG bearing for their application, kind of like selling a Poulan Wild Thing to a big logging company! LOL A good example that comes right to mind is the Stihl 044, it appears Stihl's engineering department goofed on the early 044's and used a 10mm wrist pin and bearing which proved to be unreliable in the field, they later changed the wrist pin / bearing to 12mm which held up much better. The problem wan't the bearing not being up to "Stihl's standards", it was Stihl's engineers selected the wrong bearing for the application!!
Ball bearings are made to ABEC standards, ABEC-3 being standard grade. Higher grades are available but normally only used in things like turbine engines, things that require running accuracys in the millionths of a inch, 100,000 rpms or other such exotic applications.
All that being said, you can't go wrong using OEM parts, other than price. If you can identify the off-the-shelf part that the manufacturer buys in bulk for their product, and buy it direct then you can often save 90%.

 

[thompson1600]

Interesting,

Does anyone know if there is a generic equivalent for the flywheel side crank bearing on an 084? Thinking of tearing mine down this winter, thinking of having it ported maybe, but that may be for another thread.

I know all of the things like bearings, seals, nuts, bolts, etc. are supplied by other companies, but they are built to stihls standards. So my question would be; are the generic bearings as good as Stihl, what are the better brands of generic? Does anyone know who supplies Stihls bearings?

Are all of the bottom end connecting rod bearings non-replaceable on all Stihls?

I know, I know, to many questions. I'll shut up and listen now.

Just soaking up the knowledgeopcorn:

Thanks E.

The flywheel side on the 084 is a standard 6203 size bearing.

I've seen FAG marked on a lot of Stihl bearings, but I have seen other markings too that I don't remember now. Most major bearing manufacturers "standard" bearings should be of equivalent standards to Stihl. The ABEC-3 standard I believe goes to about 20,000 RPM's maximum, so with a chainsaw we should be no where near that. I use FAG and SKF bearings. I usually buy them from Motion Industries.

Some of the older saws had replaceable connecting rod bearings, but all the newer (at least since the 80's) ones are pressed together and not replaceable, to the best of my knowledge.

Tom

 

[Erick]

Thanks Guys

Good info to know it will probably save alot of us some money. Thanks Thompson for the part number, and the info in your other bearing post too.

Thanks E.

 

[Lakeside53]

The only real mechanical difference (temperature, cage material, clearance specs can be matched) in the OEM and generic market bearings for the flywheel side is that the inner radius of both sides is HUGE (like 1-2mm) on the OEM. This is put there for two reasons - stress relief (sharp transitions on the bearings are tough on the crank, and for guaranteed clearance of the crank machining - it is also radiused close to the counterweights for the same reason as the bearings. I've used generic bearings on the flywheel sides of several saws, have got away with it, but have seen on a few occasions the crank was misplaced towards the clutch side by the lack of bearing radius (can't quite match up to the crank). As the clutch side is always OEM, there was enough clearance for the crank bearing on that side, but the crank was sure close to the casing.. (maybe 8-10 thou..). This lateral displacement can also mess up the oil pump drive system, but it didn't happen in my case.

Personally, if you are choosing generic, get the version with riveted steel inner cages. A couple of $$ more, but the cages will not come apart..

It's always a dilemma... if you tear your own saw down, it's so much effort to replace cranks/bearings etc, and you have to buy the OEM clutch side anyhow is $10-20 savings worth it? I don't have a good answer..


If you buy OEM seals, the cheapest way by far is to buy the entire gasket set - it's cheaper than buying the individual seals! (as a dealer we don't even buy individual seals anymore). You might have to show your dealer the part number - most don't even know about this.

 

[Sparky_NY]

Lakeside, What about the large end conrod bearings, are they even available from Stihl?