Stihl 045 AV Rebuild.

[PogoInTheWoods]

9517 003 0490 is the number for the drive pin.

I have what you need regarding the early IPL's and 1115 series tech notes and intended to post a link for you anyway. You may find them handy as well, Randy.

Stand by...

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

9517 003 0490 is the number for the drive pin.

I have what you need regarding the early IPL's and 1115 series tech notes and intended to post a link for you anyway. You may find them handy as well, Randy.

Stand by...

Hey thanks Randy!

Hmm the number for the pin I have is 9517 003 3760? One of us must have a superseded PN?

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Ah damn, scratch that Randy, even at 29 my bloody eyes are failing clearly, I put two PN together there, you’re right!

 

[hotshot]

I have what you need regarding the early IPL's and 1115 series tech notes and intended to post a link for you anyway. You may find them handy as well, Randy.

Stand by...

Thanks, I think I have the latest copy of those TBs, but will compare them to the link.

I had a hard time finding the OEM replacement o-ring sleeves 1108 649 5000 that go under the old style oil pump, but finally did. Same as used on the 08S.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

They're probably the same one's I digitized from Definitive Dave some years ago and am including here. If not, I'd certainly like to add them to my archives.
BTW, that gear does still appear to be from an 056 application that was used as an interim solution for spur drive rim sprockets during the crankcase transition period. If so, it's an interesting example of the wrong part actually appearing to work contrary to everything I've been posting!. LOL

Also BTW, Hotshot is Randy. I'm Poge.

I'm sure you'll find the Tech Notes interesting (and hopefully relevant) reading. Here you go. And don't hesitate to keep asking questions. That's what this is all about.

https://drive.google.com/drive/fold...pGZVV1OFNYdGptSVJhUmNVWkJ0SWlkYTg?usp=sharing

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

They're probably the same one's I digitized from Definitive Dave some years ago and am including here. If not, I'd certainly like to add them to my archives.
BTW, that gear does still appear to be from an 056 application that was used as an interim solution for spur drive rim sprockets during the crankcase transition period. If so, it's an interesting example of the wrong part actually appearing to work contrary to everything I've been posting!. LOL

Also BTW, Hotshot is Randy. I'm Poge.

I'm sure you'll find the Tech Notes interesting (and hopefully relevant) reading. Here you go. And don't hesitate to keep asking questions. That's what this is all about.

https://drive.google.com/drive/fold...pGZVV1OFNYdGptSVJhUmNVWkJ0SWlkYTg?usp=sharing

Thanks very much Poge, I appreciate yours and everyone else’s time on this thread. I know I’ve lots to learn, but am enthusiastic in doing so!

I’ll have a good read and continue to share the progress. Thanks again, and thanks caustic & hotshot too.

 

[DND 9000]

Hmm the number for the pin I have is 9517 003 3760? One of us must have a superseded PN?

Needle cage 9512 933 3760 was used for this. But it is to old and nla also.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

I may try the metering lever pin

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

That'll be way too small. BTW, there are two lengths given -- 15.8 and 16.8mm for that same part number (in different IPLs). The length given for the pin for the rim drive sprocket setup is 13.8mm. Think I'd just use a roll pin or nail cut to length for the particular application and be done with it.

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

That'll be way too small. BTW, there are two lengths given -- 15.8 and 16.8mm for that same part number (in different IPLs). The length given for the pin for the rim drive sprocket setup is 13.8mm. Think I'd just use a roll pin or nail cut to length for the particular application and be done with it.

Just cut a 2.5mm drill bit down, throw away the fluted bit, dremel cut the chuck end drill rod to desired length?

 

[CausticUC]

Or one could just order what they need, depends on your time.
https://www.lily-bearing.com/needle-roller-bearings/loose-needle-rollers/

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

At that point, why not just forge your own? LOL

 

[Bob Hedgecutter]

At that point, why not just forge your own? LOL

Or that one pesky pin is the ideal reasoning to go buy a 3 foot bed metal lathe........

 

[CausticUC]

At that point, why not just forge your own? LOL

I suppose forging is an option if you have the equipment, and I guess you'd anodize it to finish?

I am lazy and chromed bearing parts are easy to get.
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/L...oose-Steel-Rollers/c23_5043/index.html?page=2
Prefer a uk supplier? Likely amazon and ebay have lots as well.

 

[CausticUC]

@PogoInTheWoods it occurs to me that using a second pin would be beneficial to pressure distribution, is there any reason that couldn't be implemented?

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

There were opposing pin implementations. The spur gears generally have opposing positions and I've seen every variation of cover washer you can imagine. I'm sure there are service notes out there somewhere detailing the reasoning behind every variant even though they never made it into the mainstream IPL's. It was really crazy with the 1111 series saws -- (050/051 and 075/076). What made it really fun was the parts changing but the part numbers staying the same. There were (and still are) many mismatched assemblies out there. And everybody was an 'expert' back then, too. A pretty confusing (and in many cases, innovative), time for Stihl shops, not to mention for their pro customers.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Chaps, I put in the washer and new pin and now the clutch won’t spin freely, once tightened down, everything is all locked in place.

The oiler, metal plate, and clutch drum all spin together and the bearing is greased.

Sadly, the new 30mm spacer is just taking up too much space on the crank. Therefore ihave now taken it back out and put it all back together with just the addition of the oiler pin and the clutch drum spins freely once again.

It appears that this pin has a small skirt half way down that aids in stopping it passing through the large metal washer which goes between the oil pump drive gear and the clutch drum spur drive

Seems for the year of this 045 that the washer isn’t able to fit.

Nice to see the saw oiling none the less and that there aren’t any issues with the oil pump itself. Though I’ll still take it apart, clean it and replace any washers while I’m in there.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Sadly, the new 30mm spacer is just taking up too much space on the crank. Therefore ihave now taken it back out and put it all back together with just the addition of the oiler pin and the clutch drum spins freely once again.

The washer is not the problem and should be installed. It certainly sounds like the pin is the source if interference based on your description. It could also be incorrect orientation of the the standoff washer behind the clutch. Maybe inserting the pin into the drive washer from the opposite direction or filing down the 'skirt' will correct the issue. Regardless, eliminating the washer is not the correct solution. It must be in place and was used on all 045's to my knowledge. The 30mm version is simply a larger diameter for additional protection of the seal.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

The washer is not the problem and should be installed. It certainly sounds like the pin is the source if interference based on your description. It could also be incorrect orientation of the the standoff washer behind the clutch. Maybe inserting the pin into the drive washer from the opposite direction or filing down the 'skirt' will correct the issue. Regardless, eliminating the washer is not the correct solution. It must be in place and was used on all 045's to my knowledge. The 30mm version is simply a larger diameter for additional protection of the seal.

Hey poge, thanks for the message. No matter the pin or not, with the addition of the washer it’s tight. The oil drive gear teeth actually sit half of their thickness proud of the gear teeth on the oiler too. Everything else is slightly forward too. It’s definitely the washer that is causing the issues in this case.

With the pin, am I correct in saying the domed end should be going inside the clutch drum and the square end in the oil pump gear? I’ll take a video of installing with the pin and washer, with just the washer and no pin and then just the pin, are you able to take a few mins and watch it?

I presumed there is a possibility that the crankshaft bearing isn’t fully seated in the pocket, but looking at the service manual picture, the bearing is slightly proud too:




I wonder if it’s different being an Australian model saw. Unlikely, but I know they have numerous changes and differences between models depending on where in the world they are.

edit to update:

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Nice demonstration, there! The 045 I recently rebuilt had the same problem, but it was due to having an incorrect spur gear designed without the bushing and a slight protrusion/flange on the back side that needed to be removed to obtain the required clearance. It was still a hair proud of the pump gear, but worked smoothly after I shaved it down. Now you have me tempted to take it back apart to check the bearing!

In your case, I believe you may be onto something with the bearing observation. I think the picture is depicting a seal with the tool prior to complete installation which would obviously have the seal flush with the bearing (and therefore the case) with a small recess between the bearing and case surface. And while I do question whether or not the bearing is fully seated, it almost appears as though the washer is actually sitting on the crank shoulder and not the inner bearing race. If that is indeed the case, a couple good whacks on the crankshaft using a deadblow or brass hammer (with a nut or the clutch threaded flush with the end of the crank) could well be all that's needed to get the crank shoulder flush with the bearing to allow clearance for the washer.

The washer itself is not the problem and is supposed to be there to protect the seal.