stihl 056 ignition solutions?????

[Always learning]

Hi Jon and Scallywag,
It turns out I got a bit agricultural with it and took to the ignition housing with a grinder until it fit neat.
Bright blue spark and runs on the bench like a new one.
Now looking for a clutch cover with brake, an air filter , a couple of carby throttle/clutch cir clips and a bar with chain.
I had bought it for $10 off a local stihl shop for parts for my Mag 2 but then ended up getting excited with its compression and bought a carby and the ignition off eBay to get it going too.
All up I’ve spent about $250 on it and now these other items look like another$200.
Thoughts on keeping on going? It’s a 54mm cylinder.

Scallywag, I would have done that fix and saved a bit of coin but it looked a bit out of my depth. I’m not careful enough.

 

[Always learning]

That aftermarket ignition sure looks like a nova chip attached to a coil. IIRC, the flywheel magnet polarity is wrong (or maybe it’s the physical timing location of the magnets on the flywheel?) and a nova chip won’t work on these ignitions. Do you have a link to the product you bought? Maybe the fine print will be telling?

Hi Jon, as said in other post it works now but with one catch.... won’t turn off.
Switch and wire to new ignition testing good.
Any thoughts on what to do there?
I’m having a really good run of luck with this aftermarket ignition.

 

[JonCraig]

That’s awesome that it works. You should consider taking it all apart and making a thread with detailed pics explaining what you did. Others will likely chime in with exactly what you got and why/how it works, etc.

As for turning the beast off, is there a kill wire coming out of the new ignition module? That should go to the kill switch, and the switch is screwed into the case (which is grounded).

On an old-school points ignition, the... lemme think... the condenser and one leg of the primary side of the coil are tied together, and I think the kill comes off that.

When the kill switch is closed, both legs of the coil are grounded, so no voltage can be induced.

On a nova-type module, I assume the same would apply, EXCEPT in the solid state electronics world, you have to be very careful shorting to ground around transistors. The possibility exists for the current to seek a path back to ground via the chip, and if the voltage is higher than the (breakdown voltage? Is that right?), you can nuke the chip. I know with linear regulated power supplies, you always had to install protection diodes around them so any caps downstream had a way to discharge around your regulator.

A Nova chip almost certainly has this type of protection built in, but all that nerdery above is just to say “read the dang manual”. If your ignition didn’t come with documentation, google Nova module small engine and read up on their installation. It should apply to what you have.

If you do have an obvious kill wire, test your switch w/ a digital multimeter, clean contacts, try a jumper wire, etc.

Any apologies to all who know more about electronics than me. I’m sure I have errors above. I’m scratching brain cells that I haven’t used since my electronics minor in college. :-D

 

[JonCraig]

Oh—I’m dumb and should read more.

You have a kill wire, it and switch appear good.

Good connection between the rest of the ignition and the case? Switch and case? (Didn’t wrap switch body with electrical tape or anything, right?)

You only have two wires from the ignition, correct? The kill & the plug lead?

What if you touch the end of the kill wire to a nice, clean ground on the cylinder?

This is also easier to check with the starter off, the plug out, a drill on the flywheel nut, FYI. A spark tester is an easy visual.

 

[hotshot]

There has to be a ground wire installed between the fuel tank and the main chassis, as the gas tank is isolated on rubber bushings, and the kill switch is mounted on the gas tank.

Otherwise, the Off/On switch “no worky”!

Look at the IPL, the ground strap wire is shown in the Carburetor Box view, item 23.

 

[JonCraig]

There has to be a ground wire installed between the fuel tank and the main chassis, as the gas tank is isolated on rubber bushings, and the kill switch is mounted on the gas tank.

Otherwise, the Off/On switch “no worky”!

Look at the IPL, the ground strap wire is shown in the Carburetor Tank view, item 27.

There it is!

 

[cummins5.9]

056 AV lost spark. Tested with new plug, no spark. I have the SEM GA ignition. If I check kill switch wire with ohm meter to cylinder and it zeros out I'm guessing module is bad. I've pulled flywheel and checked for kill wire short but no bare wire touching anywhere.

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk

 

[hotshot]

Yep, sounds like it’s dead. There's not a quick & cheap fix for that.

If you’re not in a big hurry, keep watching fleabay & a used one will come up for $50-60. The same SEM GA #1108 400 0800 is used on the TS-350 concrete saws. Otherwise, they’re selling $125-175 new.

At about the same cost of $125, you could always use the German Saegenspezi supplied Bosch clone IM... if you also buy an old Bosch flywheel & fanwheel to match. You’ll also need longer module attachment screws & electrical quick connectors for the kill wire.

The used Bosch FWs are available because a lot of guys converted over to the “more reliable” SEM GA, go figure, lol. They just run too hot, since they’re hidden under the FW.

 

[cummins5.9]

Thank you Hotshot. Luckily not in a big hurry to fix. It'll keep my ms660 busy now. I really wouldn't mind buying a new sem coil if I can find one. My grandpa bought this saw new back in the 80's and would like to keep it going for as long as I can saw. Do you know of a place that sells new coils for around what you stated? Thank you. -Kevin

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[hotshot]

There’s new ones selling on fleabay for $150 now.

Selletra branded SEM modules are the most current production.

 

[nolids]

I just bought a new SEM GA from eBay and the price is now $199.99. There is a slightly cheaper one also, but it is not the same on the backside, it has a plug-in spark plug wire. I'm putting it on a Makita concrete saw that uses Dolmar 143 parts-- 95cc's.

 

[stuckytough]

Hey guys. I'm new to the site, but found myself troubleshooting a similar issue. I have an 056 with SEM ignition and am troubleshooting no spark. Initially, I found deteriorated ignition switch wire insulation and found continuity to ground (regardless of ignition switch position). So, I thought that was straight forward - replace the wire. After removing the flywheel and ignition to access the wire, I found that there may me more to the story. I unplugged the ignition wire spade terminal from the module, and tested from terminal on the module to ground and still have continuity (direct short to ground). I assume this should read as an open circuit. meaning when the ignition switch is ON, the spade terminal should read open to ground. if that assumption is correct, it sounds like i need a replacement ignition module? or are my assumptions flawed? I found some that 'look' similar for ~$100 + shipping on ebay.. any advise would be appreciated. thanks.

 

[stuckytough]

looks like an issue with my last picture. hopefully this one uploads

 

[Armbru84]

@Jacob J.

Afternoon JJ, thought you may be able to help @stuckytough on this one. He’s one of the good guys.

 

[farmer steve]

looks like an issue with my last picture. hopefully this one uploads

Welcome to AS stuckytough. Go to the beg for manuals thread in the stickies section and ask for manuals,IPL and technical files for your saw. More than likely you need new SEM coil. (expensive) The tech files have some info about replacement. Let me know if you don't get them. I have them on the puter. FS.

 

[stuckytough]

Thanks for the advice. I will take a look this evening. thanks.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

The short circuit wire and terminal will always read continuity if you connect one of the multimeter probes to the negative spade terminal on the ignition module and the other probe of the the multimeter to ground. That’s how you kill spark - by creating a closed circuit. The kill wire when wired into a switch is always disconnected from ground until the switch is actuated which will then connect it.

The ignition switch is just a means to connect the negative passage to ground, it doesn’t have direct control over the ignition module as in, it won’t turn it off as such.

So when the ignition switch is set to run position / ON, you should have an open circuit (so the electrical signal cannot reach ground via the short circuit wire) when the switch is turned to the kill position / OFF then you’ll get continuity and the saw will turn off.

Spark is killed because it is lazy and will take the quickest route to ground. When the kill wire is ground it doesn’t need to jump the plug gap, when it’s not ground it has to jump the plug gap to get to ground.

 

[stuckytough]

Old thread, but thought I would give an update. So I determined my stock 1108 400 0810 stator was bad. I searched for a couple years hoping to stumble on a bargain used part. No luck. Local(ish) dealer had a 1108 400 0800 in stock (new old stock part)... so i drove an hr to pick it up. When i inspected the stator, it looked slightly different, and had a different part number on the casting- 1108 400 0804. I couldn't find much info on it and the dealer did not have experience either.. but he agreed to let me try it and return if it didn't fit. Long story short - it work, and the saw is running like a champ again.
it did take a little finesse.. i had to gently file some of the plastic potting / overmold on the back of stator and a small ledge on the saw enclosure counterbore. this was needed for a little clearance to allow my timing marks to line up. so the part seems to functional work, but had some clearance issues. again, not ideal, but its running great.

 

[KASH]

Tks for the up date.
Kash