Stihl dealers-461

[Ray Bennett]

Is it coming?

God I hope not, I cant stand to see them ruin another saw.

My million dollar plan goes like this, Instead of investing in land or stock I am gona start buying saws, First I will buy every last 440 out there then 460's and finally 660's. I will even buy up some 372's and 395's. I will store them for 2 or 3 years and put them back on the market. It is a sure fire way to make millions with one problem, I will never be able to keep from using them in the mean time.

 

[Lakeside53]

You have time.. 2010.. Oh.. that's "next year"...

 

[wanab]

You have time.. 2010.. Oh.. that's "next year"...

Dooms Day 2010,

life as we know it is over.

 

[BloodOnTheIce]

Most of my customers who are buying 441's never even owned a 440, they're finally giving up their 041's, 056's and other ancient saws.
Though the 441 may be a little heavier, and a little less power than the 440,
my customers are plenty happy with how smooth and light it is compared to their old boat anchor.
The 441 is one of the only saws I sell that people come back in and tell me how great the saw is how much smoother and easier it is to operate than their
old saw. I find it funny that people assume that us dealers have secret insider info about new products, most of the time we find out when they send us the new pricing and ordering sheets in the fall/spring.
The only thing we found out ahead of time was about the new BG blower attachment for the Kombi System and I found that out by my boss touring the factory back in October.

 

[stihl 440]

441

As I've said before if/when I get a 441 it will promptly be going to DN for a full port job. So it will run like it should. It would be unproductive for me to get one if it didn't absolutley fly. Hopefully stihl drops the weight on it and increses HP, if they do that they will see more sales and less complaining.:greenchainsaw:

 

[HUSKYMAN]

In twenty years I am going to be the crazy old guy down the road that complains about everything and uses those old, loud saws that smoke and stink....

 

[Stihl #1]

Here is the EPA chart for hand held products:

So this shows that the guidelines have flat lined at 72 g/kWh (grams per kilowatt hour) through 2010. I don't know what will happen then but my guess is that there will be no more averaging. So every model must meet the guideline numbers by itself, which is the case now in the EU.
Every manufacturer that wants to sell in the US has to meet these guidelines to be compliant. So I don't know how some of this imported stuff is getting in, nor do I want to discuss it. But the point is that Stihl has gone with stratified scavenging to clean up emissions in the combustion chamber, even though a CAT muffler is easier and cheaper to install to make the unit compliant. But the result is that if you compare a 440 and a 441 side by side, same log, chain and operator cutting, on the same amount of fuel the 441 will cut longer, because stratified scavenging keeps the fuel in the combustion chamber where it is burned instead of blowing it out the exhaust as scavenge loss. All a CAT does is act like an afterburner to continue combustion in the muffler.
Expect to see this technology on probably every new saw from Germany in the next 3-4 years.
And I have been cutting with a MS 280 IEM since July of last year. They have been out for quite a while. Cuts great but the IEM technology is not about emissions, it just allows the engine to tune for best performance at all times regardless of fuel quality, a dirty filter, altitude, and the wood or load being put on the engine.

 

[Stihl #1]

Here are the actual numbers for some models:

FS 80 two-stroke engine 195 g/kWh
FS 55 two-stroke engine with catalytic converter 64 g/kWh
BR 420C two-stroke engine with catalytic converter 45 g/kWh
TS 700 two-stroke engine with stratified scavenging 72 g/kWh
FS 110 with 4-MIX® engine 34 g/kWh
BR 550 with 4-MIX® engine 17 g/kWh
MS 440 with two closed ports 120 g/kWh
MS 441 two-stroke engine with stratified scavenging 67 g/kWh

So a CAT does work well, since a FS 80 and a FS 55 have similar size engines.
And on a larger two-stroke such as the BR 420 a CAT is even more effective.
But notice the TS 700 with stratified scavenging has way lower emissions than the little bitty FS 80. This is the difference between a newly engineered design compared to old technology. Then the four-strokes come along and give Stihl all those credits Andy talked about, so the MS 260 and MS 460 and MS 880 don't have to go away just yet.
But if the MS 441 is nearly half again lower on emissions, then you are getting more wood cut for less fuel. Gas is $3.10 a gallon here in Virginia.
So I am not going to complain about the MS 441 having a little more weight. It is smoother and gets more wood cut and is our first glimpse of what to expect from future models, and I think anyone here who is familiar with Stihl products will agree that every saw we have has seen continual improvement and always get better with time. I have a strong suspicion that each new model will be an improvement over earlier models due to lessons learned and feedback from end users, just like it has always been.

 

[THALL10326]

Good info there Eddie, it explains it all in one chart. Good job!!!!!!

 

[bcorradi]

I agree very informative post Eddie. Thanks for sharing that with us.

 

[Four Paws]

Is he the new mayor of East Lansing?

 

[SawTroll]

As I've said before if/when I get a 441 it will promptly be going to DN for a full port job. So it will run like it should. It would be unproductive for me to get one if it didn't absolutley fly. Hopefully stihl drops the weight on it and increses HP, if they do that they will see more sales and less complaining.:greenchainsaw:

Husky just did on the 575xp......

 

[SawTroll]

Here is the EPA chart for hand held products:

...

That chart clearly explain why Stihl increased the bore of the MS260 when they did........


...and Husky with the 350...

 

[stihl 440]

575

Husky just did on the 575xp......

Ummmmmmm....WTF?!?!?!? Do you mean like a NE575xp?:greenchainsaw:

 

[SawTroll]

Ummmmmmm....WTF?!?!?!? Do you mean like a NE575xp?:greenchainsaw:

Right, .3kW/.4hp up (to 5.8), and .4lbs down on weight.....

..should beat the 441 with some margin - enter the 461......

 

[stihl 440]

575

Right, .3kW/.4hp up (to 5.8), and .4lbs down on weight.....

..should beat the 441 with some margin - enter the 461......

HA HA, now we're talkin'! WTG, Husky! Now stihl needs to do the same on the 441. Then I'll be getting the NE575xp! Was thinking of sending this saw to DN when I got it as well, but..not after hearing that.......:greenchainsaw:

 

[Lakeside53]

If you average the NE with the 575 Autotune heavy weight . nothing has changed.


anyone even seen a USA NE yet?