Stihl MS291 questions

[ColdStihl]

Hardy perfectly explained but we as Engineers are always blamed for making something that can not be serviced! We have the added ability to look at things from both sides, the design and the end user. The cap is to stop the novice person from adjusting the carb, remove the cap then it is adjustable. So if I were you I would get the tools, they are like 5 bucks total I should think.

I work for an automation company and my focus is on serviceability and ease of installation, which is quite counter to what Stihl (or Walbro and the EPA) did to this carb. I do understand the reasoning behind it. I just find it amusing that behind the façade of advertising new environmentally sound features, such as reduced emissions and better fuel economy, there has to be a trade-off to performance and longevity. Perhaps current technology disjointed the zero-sum gain, free lunch benefits of less pollution and better performance?

 

[Rockjock]

I work for an automation company and my focus is on serviceability and ease of installation, which is quite counter to what Stihl (or Walbro and the EPA) did to this carb. I do understand the reasoning behind it. I just find it amusing that behind the façade of advertising new environmentally sound features, such as reduced emissions and better fuel economy, there has to be a trade-off to performance and longevity. Perhaps current technology disjointed the zero-sum gain, free lunch benefits of less pollution and better performance?

I think we have to understand that if Stihl wants to sell saws in North America they have to do this. So they can not be blamed IMO. Also having working in my field I can tell you that most people want the product to work. Give me a car that gets good gas mileage, gets me from point a to be and I am fine with that. I am not worried about 1/4 mile times and such. Same with saws I think. Give me a saw that runs well, is good on gas and pollutes less and I will be happy. I am not a logger so for me that extra chain speed is not an issue. So for the select few that want that added performance it is just a limiter cap away.

 

[Weesa20]

Only a matter of time until all the saws are M-tronic or Autotune or some other variant of computer controlled fuel delivery system. None of my saws are modded for performance, all are modded for longevity. Stihl knows that they have strong brand loyalty and they can blame the EPA/fuel/oil/dull chain, poor maintainance if a guy's saw gets toasted and he will probably buy another Stihl.

 

[ColdStihl]

Only a matter of time until all the saws are M-tronic or Autotune or some other variant of computer controlled fuel delivery system. None of my saws are modded for performance, all are modded for longevity. Stihl knows that they have strong brand loyalty and they can blame the EPA/fuel/oil/dull chain, poor maintainance if a guy's saw gets toasted and he will probably buy another Stihl.

The M-tronic pro saws are interesting to me. I've read that they adapt well to muffler mods--automatically. Is this true?

 

[Weesa20]

Yes, but it wouldn't surprise me if in the future the EPA locked down the amount of automatic adjustment the system could provide and they will then have OBD Codes that will need to be cracked in order to provide adequate adjustment for mods.

 

[Rockjock]

Yes, but it wouldn't surprise me if in the future the EPA locked down the amount of automatic adjustment the system could provide and they will then have OBD Codes that will need to be cracked in order to provide adequate adjustment for mods.

yes and they may add a GPS so they know where you are cutting or a breath tester to be sure you are not drunk.. fingerprint scanner so only you can run the saw!

 

[ColdStihl]

yes and they may add a GPS so they know where you are cutting or a breath tester to be sure you are not drunk.. fingerprint scanner so only you can run the saw!

Ha! Don't get me started.. Although the fingerprint scanner may be alright if it could be programmed for authorized users as it may deter theft. Then again, there would probably be a way around that, too.

 

[ColdStihl]

Well, unless someone has anything else to add, I will wait until my dealer returns to ask about those tools. I don't want to thread to go too far off course (not sure how strict the board is for that type of thing). I will follow-up.

Thanks to all who contributed! At the end of the day, no matter what, I came away with way more info than I though possible. Bravo!

 

[Bob Igram]

I can only imagine in todays political climate what an EPA violation could cost everyone involved if it was discovered........a dealer and the customer in federal prison, after they released a couple murderers to make room in the cellblock

 

[ColdStihl]

I can only imagine in todays political climate what an EPA violation could cost everyone involved if it was discovered........a dealer and the customer in federal prison, after they released a couple murderers to make room in the cellblock

Muffler mods are certainly grounds for the death penalty in the dystopian future we can all envision.

 

[AKDoug]

Guy you are over thinking this. The tools that were listed are at the dealer for you to buy. You remove the limiter IF you damage it just buy another one and keep it as a spare. Next you use the tool to adjust the carb as you desire then put back the old limiter cap or leave it out . Down the road if you have an issue and want to take it in for service you can put in the new limiter cap and be done with it.

They might be in Canada or Germany, but I've been told it's illegal not to sell the tools. That's the official party line

 

[Rockjock]

They might be in Canada or Germany, but I've been told it's illegal not to sell the tools. That's the official party line

That is the first time I have heard that from Stihl. I just wanted into the dealer and ordered them. He got them in a couple of days. I know the splined carb adjusting tool was not easy to get but many places sold it without issue.

 

[AKDoug]

Like I said.. it's the party line. I've been told directly not to sell them, but I'd have to look pretty deep to find it in writing.

 

[AKDoug]

The M-tronic pro saws are interesting to me. I've read that they adapt well to muffler mods--automatically. Is this true?

Yes, it's true. I have a ported 441C-M with a muffler mod and it absolutely rips. No signs of running lean either. It's a very simple system that adjusts based on RPM and crank case temp.

 

[Weesa20]

Rockjock....is the dealer where you got them in the USA?

 

[Rockjock]

Rockjock....is the dealer where you got them in the USA?

No here in Ontario Canada. Many times I am unable to get some of the parts the US guys can get... Odd but hey learned something new!

 

[Fishnuts2]

Yes, but it wouldn't surprise me if in the future the EPA locked down the amount of automatic adjustment the system could provide and they will then have OBD Codes that will need to be cracked in order to provide adequate adjustment for mods.

I thought we were told "If you like your automatic adjuster, you can keep your automatic adjuster."
Just some more hopes dashed now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Robin Wood]

I believe you will have to learn first something about carb setting before you "screw up" your carb settings by "screwing around" without knowing what you are doing!

7

Yes ur right, i dont know much about carb settings yet.
Always thought EPA jets were too narrow to start with for muffler mods or etc.

 

[VinceGU05]

heres a muffler off a 291 i did for my mate. bought it from stihl.. $45 i think it was.. i think a 290 is the same.


heres what i did to my jonersed mixture screws. now i can use the little orange screwdriver on them
dremel comes in handy!!

 

[ColdStihl]

Like I said.. it's the party line. I've been told directly not to sell them, but I'd have to look pretty deep to find it in writing.

I'll see what my local dealers have to say. Odds are, it will be along the same line, but I have to find out.

As for the M-tronic reply, that's very cool. I was handling a 362 the other day and it felt like my 291, which had me thinking about the power-to-weight ratio advantage of pro saws. I do acknowledge that weight is a major factor at the end of a long, hot day of cutting. I also realize that the 261 would be a better comparison to the 291, being lighter and having a little bit more power. No, I'm not having any buyers remorse. I really do like my 291. I just find that after using it for a few weekends and then touching the pro models has me thinking about what could of been. I'm sure some of you have been there.