Stihl MS441CRM-Tronic Ported Work Saw Review

[Slamm]

i like the balance of a 20" on me 460 and i would like a ES lite 25" and a 18" ES lite on my 260 but we can't allways get what we wont:bang:

Well I hope they get the hint and start making shorter, LITE bars. Again, they are a novelty item if you are just cutting for fun, but if there is some way that bar can make you more money, they will pay for themselves in short order.

I think they knew what they were doing by selecting the length of 28" and bigger as that is where the bar weight starts to get at you, as the work goes on, but for my size timber, 28" is the ideal bar length, so I'm good. But lots of guys use the 25" bar for 60cc, 70cc and 90cc saws, so there is a big market their, novelty or pro.

I use the 20" ES bars to buck up with as they are cheaper and faster to resharpen when hitting dirt.

But a Lite 20" bar on my modded 260 would be the cats meow, for limbing and brush work, or as a handy skidder saw.

Sam

 

[Officer's Match]

i like the balance of a 20" on me 460 and i would like a ES lite 25" and a 18" ES lite on my 260 but we can't allways get what we wont:bang:

For some reason my eyes quickly went to your avatar pic when I read that...

 

[Stihlman441]

A there Sam, have you weighted a 36'' ES Light bar,this will improve the balance of a 660 no end i assume.:msp_thumbup:

 

[Slamm]

A there Sam, have you weighted a 36'' ES Light bar,this will improve the balance of a 660 no end i assume.:msp_thumbup:

No, I ran my 36" ES a little and for firewood cutting, maybe I could use a 36" bar for blocking up firewood, but for my logging, its just not practical. I got another 120 acres of this bottom ground to finish and another 100 acre cotton wood job that I'm not sure of the size of the cottonwoods, some might be big enough to justify walking wielding a 36" bar all day, but haven't see the jobsite yet, just know the acreage.

I might get excited and get a 36" Lite, but it will be awhile. Right now, I know I will use every 28" Lite bar I can get in. I'm up to 6 28"ers now. I'll level off there. I'm getting a price on a 1/2 roll of .404 semi chisel. I think I will like that for bucking up this muddy wood, and this winter its just going to get worse and worse with the mud. The cotton wood job is on a strip mine, which is like skidding on a gravel parking lot (awesome for skidding), bad for bucking up chain. I gotta get new sprockets and see about getting some 20" bars ready for .404.

I agree that a 36" Lite Bar on a 660 would balance out good, I like the balance of a 28" and I would imagine that the 36" Lite is even or lighter than a 28" ES.

Sam

 

[mdavlee]

Well that settles it then, you will have to buy 70 and 90cc Stihls to use the Lite Bars, LOL.

They make those adaptors, but I'm not sure if they are a pain to use or not, I guess, onces its on, its on. So that adaptor can't be that big of a deal.

I used a regular ES for about a day, after using the Lite bars for several days, and well, I didn't like that experience very much, LOL. I called the dealer and asked him to keep them in stock, as if he sells one, he will sell the same person more, because they are addicting.

Sam

The adapter can be mounted on the saw with the screw that holds the bar plate on. That way it's on there and won't fall off when you change a bar on clean it off. The only problem I have with stihl bars is it takes 92 dl on a 28" light bar to work on a husky. The 32" are the same. Fatguy made some rings up for the 576 to run a stihl mount bar on it and they work good also. The tsumura bars aren't as light as the stihl and oregons but are as stiff as a regular bar with the way the took weight out. I'm going to mount the 28" up on the 576 here for the next outing. It's lighter than a 24" total or gb bar with 3" more reach.

 

[Slamm]

The adapter can be mounted on the saw with the screw that holds the bar plate on. That way it's on there and won't fall off when you change a bar on clean it off. The only problem I have with stihl bars is it takes 92 dl on a 28" light bar to work on a husky. The 32" are the same. Fatguy made some rings up for the 576 to run a stihl mount bar on it and they work good also. The tsumura bars aren't as light as the stihl and oregons but are as stiff as a regular bar with the way the took weight out. I'm going to mount the 28" up on the 576 here for the next outing. It's lighter than a 24" total or gb bar with 3" more reach.

The adapter can be mounted on the saw with the screw that holds the bar plate on. That way it's on there and won't fall off when you change a bar on clean it off. The only problem I have with stihl bars is it takes 92 dl on a 28" light bar to work on a husky. The 32" are the same. Fatguy made some rings up for the 576 to run a stihl mount bar on it and they work good also. The tsumura bars aren't as light as the stihl and oregons but are as stiff as a regular bar with the way the took weight out. I'm going to mount the 28" up on the 576 here for the next outing. It's lighter than a 24" total or gb bar with 3" more reach.

How much do those cost?

I talked to a guy that straightens and repairs bars for a living and he hates all Lightweight bars that have inserts of anykind in them. He said they are horrible to straighten, and from working in a machine shop and having to straighten quite a bit of damaged stuff myself, shafts large bar stock items, and anything with slots or pockets that aren't full length or consistent, does suck, as it will bend where you didn't want it to bend.

See what yours does when its hung over like I did with the photo'd Lite bar up there, and what does it weigh? The 28" Lite bar was 3lbs 1 ounce with the box still around it at the Post Office Scale. Andrew wieghed his 28" .063 Stihl Lite bar and it weighed 2lbs 11.73ounces, man that is light, LOL. The only way Stihl could make the bars lighter is fill them with Helium....... hey, wait a minute?! LOL. And they are still super strong.

The design is basically text book aerospace engineering stuff, as in get the material away from the center axis to improve rigidity and then find that happy medium between thickness and "lightness" and functionality. Filling the voids with aluminum or epoxy is just not ideal, certainly aluminum is a horrible idea, as it maintains whatever shape its bent to and is only 1/3 lighter than steel. Where as, air is quite a bit lighter than steel therefore less steel has to be removed in order to see huge losses in weight. The whole slotting work by either Tsumura or Oregon removes the metal from both the center axis and the outside and then replaces it with either aluminum or something that is still heavy, not good from any vantage point.

I wondered about the adaptors, I know I had seen them. If I ever run a Husky, which looks like I might have a Husky and a Jonsred coming in a few weeks with a new cutter, not sure what he's running for bars though. Not sure if he's a 24" kinda cutter or a 28" kinda cutter, LOL. I converted my best cutter Bert, this is his nephew and he's harder headed, LOL.

Sam

 

[mdavlee]

The adapters are $10 or a little time in a machine shop.

The tsumura is stiffer than the es light. It's a 32" and it was 3lb 14oz. A 30" is 3lb 5 oz so they're a little heavier than the stihl and oregon. I like the tsumura as the rails seem to last longer than any bar I've ever used.

 

[Slamm]

The adapters are $10 or a little time in a machine shop.

The tsumura is stiffer than the es light. It's a 32" and it was 3lb 14oz. A 30" is 3lb 5 oz so they're a little heavier than the stihl and oregon. I like the tsumura as the rails seem to last longer than any bar I've ever used.

Sounds good, what do they cost?

Sam

 

[mdavlee]

They're about what the stihl list for. You have to get them out of canada. Simon can get them and send them to us south of the border. The bad part for you is stihl is 30", 32", and 36" in .063". The husky comes in 28", 30", 32", 33", 36", and 37" in .058". I wish someone down here could get them so the price would be more in line.

 

[MCW]

Well that settles it then, you will have to buy 70 and 90cc Stihls to use the Lite Bars, LOL.

They make those adaptors, but I'm not sure if they are a pain to use or not, I guess, onces its on, its on. So that adaptor can't be that big of a deal.

Sam

I have used the adaptors Sam and they work well. The stainless milled ones from Baileys are greatand with a few very small mods work well on the Dolmars too.
I wouldn't go quite as far as buying a saw just to suit the bars I'd like to own

 

[Slamm]

They're about what the stihl list for. You have to get them out of canada. Simon can get them and send them to us south of the border. The bad part for you is stihl is 30", 32", and 36" in .063". The husky comes in 28", 30", 32", 33", 36", and 37" in .058". I wish someone down here could get them so the price would be more in line.

Oh mine, well no problem, it appears that I can get the Stihl Lite Bars for a lot cheaper than those bars and they are a lot lighter, better engineered, come in the right sizes and located and stocked right by me.

I see no negatives to my arrangement. The Tsumuras are shiny though.

Sam

 

[Slamm]

I have used the adaptors Sam and they work well. The stainless milled ones from Baileys are greatand with a few very small mods work well on the Dolmars too.
I wouldn't go quite as far as buying a saw just to suit the bars I'd like to own

I will have to get one of those adaptors ready for him, as it only makes sense that he will use the Lite bars.

My cutter was wanting to get a 3rd saw for a backup to a backup, I asked him if he was going to get a Dolmar 7900 his responding text was "WTF is that?????", LOL.

Sam

 

[mdavlee]

Oh mine, well no problem, it appears that I can get the Stihl Lite Bars for a lot cheaper than those bars and they are a lot lighter, better engineered, come in the right sizes and located and stocked right by me.

I see no negatives to my arrangement. The Tsumuras are shiny though.

Sam

Yeah I don't see you bettering your setup with them. Some of us that don't wear out bars that quick and have plenty of extras around can do fine with them. I wish they made a 28" in .063" is my complaint with them.

For the 28" I couldn't get a 91 dl chain to work so I made some 92 up. I guess if you ground the slot some a 91 might work but I couldn't get oregon on there even after a few tanks of stretch.

 

[Slamm]

Yeah I don't see you bettering your setup with them. Some of us that don't wear out bars that quick and have plenty of extras around can do fine with them. I wish they made a 28" in .063" is my complaint with them.
For the 28" I couldn't get a 91 dl chain to work so I made some 92 up. I guess if you ground the slot some a 91 might work but I couldn't get oregon on there even after a few tanks of stretch.

I cut and topped a little over 100,000 bdft might be closer to 150,000 with the first two 28" Lite bars each on two 441's, before the rails needed to be closed, but the paint is still pretty good, well I wouldn't say good, but its their, which is amazing. I'm running .050 gauge. I'm having them closed and then when they wear out again, I might try running .063 gauge to finish them off. But I'm quite happy with the life I got out of them, especially considering, it feels like I'm walking around the woods with a powerhead and with no bar on it. Again it has everything to do with putting that grin on your face.

What are you talking about with the 91 and 92 links? With the Stihl Lite bar on a Stihl or a Husky saw?

I use 91 links and 90 will almost work. Like an idiot, I mark one chain wrong and made it 92, links, it worked for several days until the tensioner bottomed out and I caught my mistake.


Later,

Sam

 

[mdavlee]

The stihl light on a husky saw took 92 dl.

 

[Stihlman441]

Ok i have done the vid that most wont to see 460 stock Ozzy model (dual port muff) v 441CRM-Tronic ported v 660 BB Kit Ozzy dual port muff v 660 Snellerized with dual port muff all with the same 28'' ES Light bar and new Carlton 3/8 .063 semi chisel skip chain untouched and 7 pin sprockets.Wood is Stringybark block cut back in March.
No real sup prizes each saw got 2 or 3 seconds faster as we went to each one,had a couple of brake outs but this was the only block i had and was trying to make sure i got all the cuts in.
The 441C was created for me as a lighter,better AV,better fuel mileage,no tune,better filter system,easy start,with good torque and H power effluent felling saw and that exactly what i got and is a please to operate.
You will see with the 441C it takes couple of seconds to sort its self out early in the first cut.
For us Ozzy wood cutters i would say this an extream test of a 70,76cc saw in hard woods.

[video=youtube;Z3DoQd_Otp0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3DoQd_Otp0[/video]

 

[porsche965]

Thanks for taking the time to make this video! Im sure it will raise alot of eyebrows too.

 

[deye223]

just go's to show you how good a stock 460 is , it was up against bigger cc or beter technology and ported at that and only up to 8 seconds slower and andrew thats a top vid thanks

 

[Slamm]

I timed them, and its just like I always have been saying the modded 441 would cut more wood in a days time or week or in its life. Its just as fast as the other saws but gets better mileage and great AV.

460 MM === 38.5 and 39 seconds - Break out on first cut.
441CM === 37 and 40 seconds
660BB === 35 and 38 seconds
660 Brad === 32, 41.5 and 32 seconds - Break out on first and last cut and issue with middle cut.

I think that is pretty consistent with what I have been finding throughout my work and have been saying for years now. If the measure is, which saw can consistently cut more wood in working conditions with 28" bars and shorter it has to be the modded 441, in cookie cutting it hangs right there with 90cc saws, even if the 90cc is modded, yet will get better fuel mileage and are certainly a lot easier on you as the the operator due to great AV and being lighter.


Fantastic, and thank you Andrew,

Sam

 

[porsche965]

Andrew, about how many tanks of fuel have been run through these saws the videos would you guestimet? I realize some are over 25 tanks and are fully broken in, but just curious. Thanks.