Fish
Tree Freak
I admire a man that knows his pink.
Molly is now in her sixties and wowing the crew at the L.A. retirement homes
Molly is now in her sixties and wowing the crew at the L.A. retirement homes
stihl quick release caps
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Not quite. She was <i>born in</i> the sixties, if http://us.imdb.com/Name?Ringwald,+Molly is to be believed. I don't know why they pick the least flattering pictures there...
I'd forgotten there was a color selector available for the "Post Reply" page since I have all those doodads opted-out, so I looked up the pinks (there are 20 of them) hardcoded into my windowing system. I <i>do</i> know them now, but by the morning, all will be forgotten again. Like Einstein (or was it Edison?), I don't need to know how many feet are in a mile since it's so easy to look up.
I don't know about the 270/280's. They seem to be a good mix of features between the white and orange handled models. I poked and prodded the 280 pretty good at the shop. The air filter element can be removed without tools, the winter/summer setting is a flip of a lever from outside the airbox, it's got the tool-less caps, and the 270 even comes with the tool-less clutch cover. I don't know if the crank is in three or five pieces, but that really shouldn't matter. Nor do I know if the cylinders have open or closed ports, but that really shouldn't matter either. It seems that the anti-vibe should be every bit as effective as the Husky stuff (I've yet to run a current Husky, but Stihls are smooth enough for me anyway, and these two new models are really spongy). If I wasn't strapped for cash as much as I currently am, I'd probably pick up a 280 just to put it through it's paces.
Thanks so much for listening.
Glen
I'd forgotten there was a color selector available for the "Post Reply" page since I have all those doodads opted-out, so I looked up the pinks (there are 20 of them) hardcoded into my windowing system. I <i>do</i> know them now, but by the morning, all will be forgotten again. Like Einstein (or was it Edison?), I don't need to know how many feet are in a mile since it's so easy to look up.
I don't know about the 270/280's. They seem to be a good mix of features between the white and orange handled models. I poked and prodded the 280 pretty good at the shop. The air filter element can be removed without tools, the winter/summer setting is a flip of a lever from outside the airbox, it's got the tool-less caps, and the 270 even comes with the tool-less clutch cover. I don't know if the crank is in three or five pieces, but that really shouldn't matter. Nor do I know if the cylinders have open or closed ports, but that really shouldn't matter either. It seems that the anti-vibe should be every bit as effective as the Husky stuff (I've yet to run a current Husky, but Stihls are smooth enough for me anyway, and these two new models are really spongy). If I wasn't strapped for cash as much as I currently am, I'd probably pick up a 280 just to put it through it's paces.
Thanks so much for listening.
Glen
Fish
Tree Freak
Wow, Molly is getting up there.
I was curious to see if the basic construction of the 270/280
was the same as the 290/310.
I always listen..
I was curious to see if the basic construction of the 270/280
was the same as the 290/310.
I always listen..
As I recall, they have a full metal crankcase just (about) like the "pro" stuff. The exception is that the complete magneto-side housing is a bolt on plastic assembly. The handle arrangement is just about like the "pro" stuff (so a smashed top cover should not require a rear handle assembly). The isolators are very much cushier than those of old, and there's even one coil spring if I remember correctly. There's a pin on the drive side that passes into an oversize socket in the rear handle assembly, and it appears to be nothing more than a device to limit the amount of travel between the chassis and handle. I think I remember someone here suggesting that it was to prevent other-than-Stihl bars from being installed, but that's definitely not the purpose. The cylinder is very close to vertical (if not completely so). I feel that's to put the primary imbalance vibrations into the fore-aft plane, thus being snubbed by the bar/chain in the cut and not felt as much by the operator. I feel like Russ with this large paragraph but I can't find a good place to stop.
Glen
Glen
270
The 270 is a different breed. Not just a cap on the lower end.Clutch side is the whole bottom.
Made to Europe vibration standards. Alot less weight than the 290 series. Sure would like to get one souped. At least the baffles come out easy.
The 270 is a different breed. Not just a cap on the lower end.Clutch side is the whole bottom.
Made to Europe vibration standards. Alot less weight than the 290 series. Sure would like to get one souped. At least the baffles come out easy.
jokers
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sorry Glens, you will never truly know what it feels like to be me.
I made reference to the pin on the drive side, but it is not the pin you are speaking of. It was pointed out to me by the dealer and he explained it`s purpose. If I ever complete this death march I`m on I will be posting pictures since JimL was also so adament in his denial of it`s existence. My best guess for when I will be able to post a piucture is early next week.
If you go to the Stihl Canada website you will see a reference to a magnesium crankcase and they also provide a picture which seems to illustrate that the crankcase is of a similar contruction as the 029, that is a cylinder which is integral to the upper case half. POS consumer style, not the pro style jug seperate from the case halves incase cylinder replacement ever becomes necessary. Evidence that these saws are aimed at homeowners and farmers. These saws are also listed as "Semi-Pro" on their site.
There is also conflicting information regarding the side chain adjust feature which has dubious merit in my opinion. According to the Stihl site, Side Chain Adjust is both standard and optional on both saws and the only two that I have actually touched both had it. I have this "enhancement" on my 019T and found that it is no quicker in practical adjustment terms and is in fact slower overall since you have to dismount and remount this assembly in order to flip the bar. Hmmm......, big improvement.
The lever for Winter/Summer operation is nothing more than another flimsy Stihl lever waiting to be broken. Most Huskies have a flap that is fully concealed, thus protected, that easily pivots into place.
As for how effective the vibration snubbers "should be", only actual use will tell. I don`t know how you could possibly tell by looking at a system, although with the utilization of atleast one spring they are headed in the right direction.
The fact that Stihl has finally come up with a tool less air filter sets a new industry standard. Well not really, but atleast they are trying something uncharacteristic to the Germans by accepting the merit in the ideas of other nationalities.
In summary, I don`t see what all the hoopla is about concerning these two models. They are both bloated goats compared to the 260 and they lack the balance and feel. From looking at market prices locally it appears that for $400 dollars you can either get the tried and true MS260 Pro or the new kid on the block, the 280 which sports an additional pound+ and a paltry .3 hp for the extra weight. Tell me again why anybody should be excited about this?
Russ
I made reference to the pin on the drive side, but it is not the pin you are speaking of. It was pointed out to me by the dealer and he explained it`s purpose. If I ever complete this death march I`m on I will be posting pictures since JimL was also so adament in his denial of it`s existence. My best guess for when I will be able to post a piucture is early next week.
If you go to the Stihl Canada website you will see a reference to a magnesium crankcase and they also provide a picture which seems to illustrate that the crankcase is of a similar contruction as the 029, that is a cylinder which is integral to the upper case half. POS consumer style, not the pro style jug seperate from the case halves incase cylinder replacement ever becomes necessary. Evidence that these saws are aimed at homeowners and farmers. These saws are also listed as "Semi-Pro" on their site.
There is also conflicting information regarding the side chain adjust feature which has dubious merit in my opinion. According to the Stihl site, Side Chain Adjust is both standard and optional on both saws and the only two that I have actually touched both had it. I have this "enhancement" on my 019T and found that it is no quicker in practical adjustment terms and is in fact slower overall since you have to dismount and remount this assembly in order to flip the bar. Hmmm......, big improvement.
The lever for Winter/Summer operation is nothing more than another flimsy Stihl lever waiting to be broken. Most Huskies have a flap that is fully concealed, thus protected, that easily pivots into place.
As for how effective the vibration snubbers "should be", only actual use will tell. I don`t know how you could possibly tell by looking at a system, although with the utilization of atleast one spring they are headed in the right direction.
The fact that Stihl has finally come up with a tool less air filter sets a new industry standard. Well not really, but atleast they are trying something uncharacteristic to the Germans by accepting the merit in the ideas of other nationalities.
In summary, I don`t see what all the hoopla is about concerning these two models. They are both bloated goats compared to the 260 and they lack the balance and feel. From looking at market prices locally it appears that for $400 dollars you can either get the tried and true MS260 Pro or the new kid on the block, the 280 which sports an additional pound+ and a paltry .3 hp for the extra weight. Tell me again why anybody should be excited about this?
Russ
Hi Russ.
This pin you're speaking of, is it visible at all on a fully assembled saw? I couldn't find it but I'll look again in whatever area you describe.
Thanks for pointing out the stihl.ca website. Last I'd looked it had not been updated since 2001.
What makes it so much harder to replace a cylinder on a horizontally-split crankcase? Is it really any more difficult? About the only thing I can see that would make it less attractive is that the base of the cylinder cannot be machined to alter the port timing and squish clearance. Is it a requirement of a "pro" saw that such machinations can be performed?
I have no opinion on the tool-free chain adjuster other than it makes sense of the tool-free filler caps. How much more difficult is it to remove than the standard cover? I'm not confused by the options: it's standard on both versions of the 270 and on the "comfort" version of the 280, and optional on the standard 280. The "Side Chain Adjust" is a separate mechanism and as standard equipment does not need removal on any of the saws I've got or used. Doesn't your 260 have it as well?
The summer/winter lever is neither flimsy (or so it would seem) nor exposed where it could be snagged. The shockwave presentation at stihl.ca suggests a screwdriver is necessary for manipulating it but I quite easily did so with just my finger. Most Stihls also have a very easy and effective mechanism to make the change with very minor to no disassembly. Doing so subjects the air filter to more debris, however, and I'm sure that change is even more marked in the Huskies. As to whether any of the other levers are flimsy and prone to breakage I have no personal knowledge. I guess if one were to continually try to force it to choke without first depressing the throttle they might damage it over time, but the first such instance should suffice to learn the scheme.
The anti-vibe is markedly more successful on these units according to those who've run them and reported here (Stihltech comes to mind just now). I've done a lot of work with springs of various configuration over the years and have found them to be susceptible to breakage just like any device which continually flexes in use and I've seen rubber bushings tear as well. Whether one or the other is superior is largely a matter of opinion. And being able to size up a mechanism merely by looking at it is not an impossible or necessarily inaccurate feat.
Having a tool-free air filter is not new to Stihl with these saws; it's been available for some time on some of the larger and smaller units. I made mention of it only as a generally good change in my opinion.
This isn't really a "Stihl v. Husky" thing, nor "Stihl is the best". I don't know whether anybody should be excited about the two models. It was merely some atopical discussion here in a thread in the chainsaw forum.
Glen
This pin you're speaking of, is it visible at all on a fully assembled saw? I couldn't find it but I'll look again in whatever area you describe.
Thanks for pointing out the stihl.ca website. Last I'd looked it had not been updated since 2001.
What makes it so much harder to replace a cylinder on a horizontally-split crankcase? Is it really any more difficult? About the only thing I can see that would make it less attractive is that the base of the cylinder cannot be machined to alter the port timing and squish clearance. Is it a requirement of a "pro" saw that such machinations can be performed?
I have no opinion on the tool-free chain adjuster other than it makes sense of the tool-free filler caps. How much more difficult is it to remove than the standard cover? I'm not confused by the options: it's standard on both versions of the 270 and on the "comfort" version of the 280, and optional on the standard 280. The "Side Chain Adjust" is a separate mechanism and as standard equipment does not need removal on any of the saws I've got or used. Doesn't your 260 have it as well?
The summer/winter lever is neither flimsy (or so it would seem) nor exposed where it could be snagged. The shockwave presentation at stihl.ca suggests a screwdriver is necessary for manipulating it but I quite easily did so with just my finger. Most Stihls also have a very easy and effective mechanism to make the change with very minor to no disassembly. Doing so subjects the air filter to more debris, however, and I'm sure that change is even more marked in the Huskies. As to whether any of the other levers are flimsy and prone to breakage I have no personal knowledge. I guess if one were to continually try to force it to choke without first depressing the throttle they might damage it over time, but the first such instance should suffice to learn the scheme.
The anti-vibe is markedly more successful on these units according to those who've run them and reported here (Stihltech comes to mind just now). I've done a lot of work with springs of various configuration over the years and have found them to be susceptible to breakage just like any device which continually flexes in use and I've seen rubber bushings tear as well. Whether one or the other is superior is largely a matter of opinion. And being able to size up a mechanism merely by looking at it is not an impossible or necessarily inaccurate feat.
Having a tool-free air filter is not new to Stihl with these saws; it's been available for some time on some of the larger and smaller units. I made mention of it only as a generally good change in my opinion.
This isn't really a "Stihl v. Husky" thing, nor "Stihl is the best". I don't know whether anybody should be excited about the two models. It was merely some atopical discussion here in a thread in the chainsaw forum.
Glen
jokers
Addicted to ArboristSite
Glens, my apologies for the confusion regarding the chain adjuster. I meant to say Quick Chain Adjust. The side chain adjust works just fine. Besides, I was just trying to kick your dog.
The difference between the 029 style cylinder and let`s say an 026 cylinder is that aside form the obvious tweakability that you already mentioned, if you need to replace the 029 jug you obviously need to replace the whole engine housing(both crankcase halves) with it. Since the member`s of this forum have a rather strong proclivity for modifying saws I feel it is noteworthy in the sense that these cylinders are likely to be harder to modify because of their configuration and some mods are just plain impossible. In terms of durability for the average weekend warrior they are probably fine.
Your other comments are either too generic as in unquantifiable, what I consider nonsense, subjective, or Stihl defensive for me to have any interest in debating them at this time. Sorry, but of course I understand that my feelings don`t change your day in any way.
BTW, I hope that you grammatical structure police find my attempt at speaking in paragraphs satisfying, because after all, I do it for you.
Russ
The difference between the 029 style cylinder and let`s say an 026 cylinder is that aside form the obvious tweakability that you already mentioned, if you need to replace the 029 jug you obviously need to replace the whole engine housing(both crankcase halves) with it. Since the member`s of this forum have a rather strong proclivity for modifying saws I feel it is noteworthy in the sense that these cylinders are likely to be harder to modify because of their configuration and some mods are just plain impossible. In terms of durability for the average weekend warrior they are probably fine.
Your other comments are either too generic as in unquantifiable, what I consider nonsense, subjective, or Stihl defensive for me to have any interest in debating them at this time. Sorry, but of course I understand that my feelings don`t change your day in any way.
BTW, I hope that you grammatical structure police find my attempt at speaking in paragraphs satisfying, because after all, I do it for you.
Russ
The paragraphs are great!
I don't wish to extend this to a prolonged debate. I wasn't trying to make any arguments, but thought I was simply answering your points. I apologize for you finding them too unquantifiable, nonsensical, subjective, or Stihl-defensive. That last bit was covered explicitly in my closing, or so I'd thought. Inasmuch as any of it was nonsensical, I did not intend such (as I sometimes do), but was merely covering the material you'd broached. I guess I don't know what was unquantifiable, but that's okay.
Have a good day.
Glen
I don't wish to extend this to a prolonged debate. I wasn't trying to make any arguments, but thought I was simply answering your points. I apologize for you finding them too unquantifiable, nonsensical, subjective, or Stihl-defensive. That last bit was covered explicitly in my closing, or so I'd thought. Inasmuch as any of it was nonsensical, I did not intend such (as I sometimes do), but was merely covering the material you'd broached. I guess I don't know what was unquantifiable, but that's okay.
Have a good day.
Glen
jokers
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hi Glens, right now I`m ROFLMAO because I apparently got ole Fido good!
What I consider nonsense is that the little lever for the winter/summer flap is a nifty and worthwile feature. Oh, and your assumption that filter plugging is even worse on a Husky when the flap is closed. What quantifiable standard did you base that on? I`ve found no such correlation and I run primarily Huskies. The only time I see significantly increased buildup on either brand is when the wood is dripping wet, but normally the comparison between a Husky air filter and a Stihl filter after a certain prescribed period of time is like night and day. I guess you would have to run an Air Injected or Turbo saw for awhile to appreciate this fact.
I don`t know how flimsy the levers are because I normally don`t break things but I`ve heard an awful lot of guys complaining about them. Apparently they are not idiot proof. I`m assuming that you have not had any problem either and that is why you don`t perceive any weakness.
I will also admit that I called BS when you said that you could accurately gauge the effectiveness of an anti-vibe system by looking at it, but maybe I`m missing something.
Russ
What I consider nonsense is that the little lever for the winter/summer flap is a nifty and worthwile feature. Oh, and your assumption that filter plugging is even worse on a Husky when the flap is closed. What quantifiable standard did you base that on? I`ve found no such correlation and I run primarily Huskies. The only time I see significantly increased buildup on either brand is when the wood is dripping wet, but normally the comparison between a Husky air filter and a Stihl filter after a certain prescribed period of time is like night and day. I guess you would have to run an Air Injected or Turbo saw for awhile to appreciate this fact.
I don`t know how flimsy the levers are because I normally don`t break things but I`ve heard an awful lot of guys complaining about them. Apparently they are not idiot proof. I`m assuming that you have not had any problem either and that is why you don`t perceive any weakness.
I will also admit that I called BS when you said that you could accurately gauge the effectiveness of an anti-vibe system by looking at it, but maybe I`m missing something.
Russ
270
The thing about the pin, I may have the answer. Ther are 2 or 3 dedicated cases for these models,one for the QCA, one for the two stud setup, and one more, but I just forgot the purpose. So the people saying it cannot be changed over are talking about the QCA, and they are right. Guess I would opt for the studded model.
As for the cylinder, a top moumt cylinder is quicker to change, but Stihlman and I checked out the 270 and found it to be fairly easy to get apart also.
It looks like a much stronger bottom end, but has anybody had the 029 fail because of the bottom end coming apart? I really would like to know.
Now I don't know if this is quantifiable or unquantifiable ( not picking here, I just kind of like the word, strange, huh?). I just report it as it sits on the bench.
The thing about the pin, I may have the answer. Ther are 2 or 3 dedicated cases for these models,one for the QCA, one for the two stud setup, and one more, but I just forgot the purpose. So the people saying it cannot be changed over are talking about the QCA, and they are right. Guess I would opt for the studded model.
As for the cylinder, a top moumt cylinder is quicker to change, but Stihlman and I checked out the 270 and found it to be fairly easy to get apart also.
It looks like a much stronger bottom end, but has anybody had the 029 fail because of the bottom end coming apart? I really would like to know.
Now I don't know if this is quantifiable or unquantifiable ( not picking here, I just kind of like the word, strange, huh?). I just report it as it sits on the bench.
Russ,
<blockquote>"right now I`m ROFLMAO because I apparently got ole Fido good!"</blockquote>I'm sorry but I don't understand. You have not got me worked up in the least on this one. I've treated this as a friendly discussion all along and nothing you've said has provoked me in any way. Have I come across as though it had? I assure you it has not.<blockquote>"What I consider nonsense is that the little lever for the winter/summer flap is a nifty and worthwile feature."</blockquote>That's fine with me, really. Thank you for fleshing that statement out a little.<blockquote>"your assumption that filter plugging is even worse on a Husky when the flap is closed. What quantifiable standard did you base that on?"</blockquote>I'd said that the Stihl filter gets much dirtier when using the air from under the cylinder cover than when not. And guessed that the difference between "summer" and "winter" settings on the Husky would be even more noticeable. Why wouldn't it be? The Husky centrifugal primary "filter" does a very good job, yet when the airbox is instead opened directly to the exact same kind of crud flying around under the cylinder cover as is found under the Stihl (and every other saw?) the result has to be the same then for the Husky as the Stihl. How could it possibly not be? Since the filter is normally cleaner for the Husky than the Stihl after equivalent time in equivalent circumstances (I don't need to run a Husky or Jonsered saw to see that has to be the case - I can tell by the design without ever even running one since I've used several kinds of equipment over the years which have employed centrifugal separation for various purposes, and I'm talking about particulates in an air stream), when they become equals because of taking in the same particularly dirt-laden air, the difference between "normal" and "winter" would thus have to be greater on the Husky than on the Stihl. Doesn't that qualify as "quantifiable" reasoning? I somehow feel that you're arguing against a point I did not make, but I don't care because anyone following this discussion can readily see that.<blockquote>"I don`t know how flimsy the levers are because I normally don`t break things but I`ve heard an awful lot of guys complaining about them. Apparently they are not idiot proof. I`m assuming that you have not had any problem either and that is why you don`t perceive any weakness."</blockquote>I have never had any trouble with them and I've only heard a very small number of complaints, all here, and that by people who are unfamiliar with the mechanism or are describing use by people who are unfamiliar. Not much <i>is</i> idiot proof, not even some things that aren't flimsy.<blockquote>"I called BS when you said that you could accurately gauge the effectiveness of an anti-vibe system by looking at it"</blockquote>About the closest I can find to that would be where I said that "being able to size up a mechanism merely by looking at it is not an impossible or necessarily inaccurate feat". Taken in the very broadest sense I guess my phraseology and yours can mean the same thing, but my initial impression is that they somehow don't.
Glen
<blockquote>"right now I`m ROFLMAO because I apparently got ole Fido good!"</blockquote>I'm sorry but I don't understand. You have not got me worked up in the least on this one. I've treated this as a friendly discussion all along and nothing you've said has provoked me in any way. Have I come across as though it had? I assure you it has not.<blockquote>"What I consider nonsense is that the little lever for the winter/summer flap is a nifty and worthwile feature."</blockquote>That's fine with me, really. Thank you for fleshing that statement out a little.<blockquote>"your assumption that filter plugging is even worse on a Husky when the flap is closed. What quantifiable standard did you base that on?"</blockquote>I'd said that the Stihl filter gets much dirtier when using the air from under the cylinder cover than when not. And guessed that the difference between "summer" and "winter" settings on the Husky would be even more noticeable. Why wouldn't it be? The Husky centrifugal primary "filter" does a very good job, yet when the airbox is instead opened directly to the exact same kind of crud flying around under the cylinder cover as is found under the Stihl (and every other saw?) the result has to be the same then for the Husky as the Stihl. How could it possibly not be? Since the filter is normally cleaner for the Husky than the Stihl after equivalent time in equivalent circumstances (I don't need to run a Husky or Jonsered saw to see that has to be the case - I can tell by the design without ever even running one since I've used several kinds of equipment over the years which have employed centrifugal separation for various purposes, and I'm talking about particulates in an air stream), when they become equals because of taking in the same particularly dirt-laden air, the difference between "normal" and "winter" would thus have to be greater on the Husky than on the Stihl. Doesn't that qualify as "quantifiable" reasoning? I somehow feel that you're arguing against a point I did not make, but I don't care because anyone following this discussion can readily see that.<blockquote>"I don`t know how flimsy the levers are because I normally don`t break things but I`ve heard an awful lot of guys complaining about them. Apparently they are not idiot proof. I`m assuming that you have not had any problem either and that is why you don`t perceive any weakness."</blockquote>I have never had any trouble with them and I've only heard a very small number of complaints, all here, and that by people who are unfamiliar with the mechanism or are describing use by people who are unfamiliar. Not much <i>is</i> idiot proof, not even some things that aren't flimsy.<blockquote>"I called BS when you said that you could accurately gauge the effectiveness of an anti-vibe system by looking at it"</blockquote>About the closest I can find to that would be where I said that "being able to size up a mechanism merely by looking at it is not an impossible or necessarily inaccurate feat". Taken in the very broadest sense I guess my phraseology and yours can mean the same thing, but my initial impression is that they somehow don't.
Glen
Crofter
Addicted to ArboristSite
You guys are goooooood! I am having a hard time though, knowing whether you like chainsaws or merely enjoy unquantifiable quibbling. Think I'll freshen up the post on "Who's the biggest bag of insulation".
Frank
Frank
088
Steve here... Picked up an MS880 for a buddy of mine... Has the new style oil and gas caps.. Like are on the MS440 and 460
Steve here... Picked up an MS880 for a buddy of mine... Has the new style oil and gas caps.. Like are on the MS440 and 460
I am still love the new style caps. IMO its a selling point for a Stihl saw.
I truely wish my Dolmar and Husky had them.
I truely wish my Dolmar and Husky had them.
Nice to see someone has resurrected this thread. I still have those pictures up at Earthlink.
<i><h4>Grateful11</h4></i>
<h3>new style oil & gas caps</h3>
<i><h4>Grateful11</h4></i>
<h3>new style oil & gas caps</h3>
