sycamore removals
- Thread starter Davidsinatree
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Redbull
ArboristSite Guru
Mike Maas said:First off, when has it ever been a problem for thread at AS to go off topic?
Next, is the issue of misinformation, it's wrong to let obviously wrong information, like flip lines being cut-proof, go unchecked. Somebody could get killed!
Finally, the two trees pictured are about as easy a tree removal job as it gets. There was good information given as to what Sycamore trees are like and how to approach this job. Dave should be happy with the responses.
The only real complaint about this thread is it should have been posted in Arborist 101.
And if you guys aren't happy with the direction of a thread, try contributing something of value, that is on topic. Oops, I forgot who I was talking to. Never mind, keep whining like little beotchs.
Xtra
ArboristSite Operative
This past friday I removed two sycamores for a pool.
I echo everyone else, the wood is heavy, it spikes easy but don't be overconfident in that - the trunks are smooth and straight, if you aren't double tied in and spike out you could slide a good distance.
If a pool is going in where the trees are then you shouldn't have to worry about a low-impact removal. Also find out if the pool contractor wants the stumps left high (3 - 4 ft?).
Good luck, go slow, and have fun.
I echo everyone else, the wood is heavy, it spikes easy but don't be overconfident in that - the trunks are smooth and straight, if you aren't double tied in and spike out you could slide a good distance.
If a pool is going in where the trees are then you shouldn't have to worry about a low-impact removal. Also find out if the pool contractor wants the stumps left high (3 - 4 ft?).
Good luck, go slow, and have fun.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm glad the tree wasn't taken down this weekend. It gives us more time to analyze it, and put together a cleanup strategy.
Now we've had to make some assumptions about the job. Collectively, we don't seem to care about what the customer is left with. We get it on the ground one way or another, and the customer gets whatever mess we leave them with. We assume no crane truck, or lifting device will be used. I'm also assuming there will be no chipper to chip. I imagine a trailer will be involved. There may or may not be someone coming for the firewood, of which there will be premium, excellent quantities.
Another plug for the characterics of the wood: Sycamore makes good firewood, splits kind tough, but no problem with a hydraulic splitter, and it is clean. It looks clean and neat when the splitwood is stacked, and when it comes in to your house there is little-to-no bark to shed. It's smooth, and easy to handle. White bark, white wood. Exceptionally nice firewood once split and seasoned.
So is David going to make them firewood-length chunks, or is he going to whack it into chunks of some size they may or may not be able to lift. Are the limbs going to be dropped whole and left as-is, or are you going to cut off the major laterals so the brush will stack, drag and load easier? These are choices that eventually have to be made. Whether done aerially, or on the ground, these levels of service need to be decided opon, ideally, before you fire up a saw. the decision can be left til the final hour, but once you head up, it's time to be deliberate and plan and act on what you intend to create.
The quality of everyone's collective experience rides on these decisions.
Now we've had to make some assumptions about the job. Collectively, we don't seem to care about what the customer is left with. We get it on the ground one way or another, and the customer gets whatever mess we leave them with. We assume no crane truck, or lifting device will be used. I'm also assuming there will be no chipper to chip. I imagine a trailer will be involved. There may or may not be someone coming for the firewood, of which there will be premium, excellent quantities.
Another plug for the characterics of the wood: Sycamore makes good firewood, splits kind tough, but no problem with a hydraulic splitter, and it is clean. It looks clean and neat when the splitwood is stacked, and when it comes in to your house there is little-to-no bark to shed. It's smooth, and easy to handle. White bark, white wood. Exceptionally nice firewood once split and seasoned.
So is David going to make them firewood-length chunks, or is he going to whack it into chunks of some size they may or may not be able to lift. Are the limbs going to be dropped whole and left as-is, or are you going to cut off the major laterals so the brush will stack, drag and load easier? These are choices that eventually have to be made. Whether done aerially, or on the ground, these levels of service need to be decided opon, ideally, before you fire up a saw. the decision can be left til the final hour, but once you head up, it's time to be deliberate and plan and act on what you intend to create.
The quality of everyone's collective experience rides on these decisions.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm not being dramatic.
TreeJunkie
ArboristSite Guru
Redbull said:
Thanks B. completely agree. However this isn't my only reason for the previous post. Could it be Tree's R Us????LOL
Like someone else posted; this belongs in the arb 101 forum, maybe even the homeowner forum. The questions posed are something i would expect of a homeowner not of a business owner. I love the competition in K>C>lllll
clampage
sorry for going off the handle, I realize we have different standards in the industry, than most. after i posted that outburst i continued on storm cleanups. i physically placed my rope in the tree we were going to remove ( no throw bag) didnt see any visible cracks, while removing a lead over a line i felt the whole top let go with my climbing line in it , the top missed me went to the line and took that out then went tight on my line dragging me, i had my flipline around the lead i was working on which prevented me from sailing with the top to the drive way below at that moment as i pulled slack out of my vt to let the top down and take the weight off me i realized that if i had found it impractical to place a secondary line in.... anyway happy to be here, clearance if it works for you to be untied at 100' go for it.Tree Machine said:
Kneejerk Bombas
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TreeJunkie said:Thanks B. completely agree. However this isn't my only reason for the previous post. Could it be Tree's R Us????LOL
Like someone else posted; this belongs in the arb 101 forum, maybe even the homeowner forum. The questions posed are something i would expect of a homeowner not of a business owner. I love the competition in K>C>lllll
I did hear something interesting from Frans, over at the good forum, about the irritation people experience from sycamore. It' the Anthracnose fungal spores that cause the irritation
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
I would question that. The outward symptoms of sycamore anthracnose appear in the leaves, but the fruiting structures of the organism are not located there. Anthracnose fungus (a fungi imperfecti) has it's life cycle within the tree. It's a systemic fungus. It causes leaf dieback, but the production of spores does not occur on the leaves. It occurs in the wood itself. The fungal reproductive bodies break through the wood causing a canker, one of the signs of an infection with sycamore anthracnose. The spores are black and are visible with close inspection with a hand magnifying glass, or easily with a 10X microscope.
The irritant on the underside of the leaves is white, powdery, loosly attached and covering the underside of leaves, mostly in the later Summer and are evident on sycamore trees with no outward signs of Anthracnose infection (cankers erupting out of the bark on limbs or branches or trunk, and dieback of the leaves along the midrib). These white fluffs can be seen clearly with the naked eye, and can be seen floating in the air when you shake a limb. When you run late Summer limbs through the chipper, you would be advised to wear a respirator because you cause clouds of it. Any neighbors nearby with asthma, this could be a bad trigger for them.
The bottom line, it is doubtful the lung irritation comes from the black anthracnose spores coming out of cankers on the wood, but rather from the white fluffies from the underside of the leaves that easily detach and fill the air. If you look really close at these fuzzy inhabitants, and just watch them patiently for a minute or so, they appear to move. I've done this a number of times, and though it outwardly appears that the underside of the leaf is shedding these things, I could almost be convinced that they are insects, a tiny, weird form of some bitty critter that camoflages itself with the underside of a sycamore leaf. What these white fluffies are, exactly, I don't truly know, but they're not the microscopic black spores from the Anthracnose fungus, Gnomonia leptostyla. I am very certain, though, that they're the source of the upper respiratory irritation.
Here's a link to one of our sponsors that tells more about sycamore anthracnose. http://www.rainbowscivance.com/SycamoreAnthracnose/syc_anth_2.asp
The irritant on the underside of the leaves is white, powdery, loosly attached and covering the underside of leaves, mostly in the later Summer and are evident on sycamore trees with no outward signs of Anthracnose infection (cankers erupting out of the bark on limbs or branches or trunk, and dieback of the leaves along the midrib). These white fluffs can be seen clearly with the naked eye, and can be seen floating in the air when you shake a limb. When you run late Summer limbs through the chipper, you would be advised to wear a respirator because you cause clouds of it. Any neighbors nearby with asthma, this could be a bad trigger for them.
The bottom line, it is doubtful the lung irritation comes from the black anthracnose spores coming out of cankers on the wood, but rather from the white fluffies from the underside of the leaves that easily detach and fill the air. If you look really close at these fuzzy inhabitants, and just watch them patiently for a minute or so, they appear to move. I've done this a number of times, and though it outwardly appears that the underside of the leaf is shedding these things, I could almost be convinced that they are insects, a tiny, weird form of some bitty critter that camoflages itself with the underside of a sycamore leaf. What these white fluffies are, exactly, I don't truly know, but they're not the microscopic black spores from the Anthracnose fungus, Gnomonia leptostyla. I am very certain, though, that they're the source of the upper respiratory irritation.
Here's a link to one of our sponsors that tells more about sycamore anthracnose. http://www.rainbowscivance.com/SycamoreAnthracnose/syc_anth_2.asp
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Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
Was that too far off topic? It's off the mainstream of a takedown, but David did ask about the characteristics of the tree and anything he should know.
Davidsinatree
ArboristSite Operative
I removed the sycamore tree Sunday afternoon.
Here is my take on my first sycamore work.
The bark is supper thin..its almost like a thin wrap around the wood.
Gaffs do not penetrate very deep,but I did not kick out at all and felt very safe gaffing up. I credit having Klien climbers for not ever kicking out on any tree.
The wood was strong and hinges seem to hold well.
I had saw dust blowing into my face at times and did not at any time experience any irritation.
I shot the homeowner a good price to chip the brush and clean up, but he wanted to clean up the mess his self. I did take the trunk home. I'll see how it burns next winter.
Thanks to all who had valuable input for this thread.
here are a few pics of the job.
Here is my take on my first sycamore work.
The bark is supper thin..its almost like a thin wrap around the wood.
Gaffs do not penetrate very deep,but I did not kick out at all and felt very safe gaffing up. I credit having Klien climbers for not ever kicking out on any tree.
The wood was strong and hinges seem to hold well.
I had saw dust blowing into my face at times and did not at any time experience any irritation.
I shot the homeowner a good price to chip the brush and clean up, but he wanted to clean up the mess his self. I did take the trunk home. I'll see how it burns next winter.
Thanks to all who had valuable input for this thread.
here are a few pics of the job.
Redbull
ArboristSite Guru
Looks like a great job. One thing I'd like to point out if you don't mind. In the pic where you are taking out the top, does anyone else think it might have been a good idea to tag it and finish the cut with a handsaw while the chainsaw is put away? Just something to ponder. I prefer to have my saw put away when a large top/block is going over in case something goes wrong.
It takes i few more seconds but it's safer. Good job, glad everything went well.
It takes i few more seconds but it's safer. Good job, glad everything went well.
skwerl
Will Climb for food
You look very comfortable throwing that top, David. Great job. The guys who seem to get hurt the quickest are the ones too scared to think about what they are doing. Looks like you are quite methodical in your climbing.
Davidsinatree
ArboristSite Operative
Hmmm....I have only read about discussion of finishing cuts with hand saw.... I don't think I have ever tried using handsaw to finish back cut.
On the top cut in the pic I put about 45 deg face cut.....then on back cut I like to cut in until I see that the saw kerf is starting to open then I will thin up hinge so there is little or no catapult action then pull saw out away from body.....a saw can easily be dropped to ground in emergency.
That could be a good Poll.....how many use hand saws to finish topping cuts.
On the top cut in the pic I put about 45 deg face cut.....then on back cut I like to cut in until I see that the saw kerf is starting to open then I will thin up hinge so there is little or no catapult action then pull saw out away from body.....a saw can easily be dropped to ground in emergency.
That could be a good Poll.....how many use hand saws to finish topping cuts.
Redbull
ArboristSite Guru
It depends on the size of the top too as well as lean, but if your notch and back cut are ok than you chouldn't have any problems. When in doubt though, tag it and finish with a handsaw. I'm not saying you did anything wrong,the pic just made me think.
skwerl
Will Climb for food
Thinking is good, it keeps us alive and healthy.
Redbull
ArboristSite Guru
skwerl said:Thinking is good, it keeps us alive and healthy.
Yeah, I noticed my life started to turn around when I started doing that "thinking" thing. Maybe it was my age, but I just won't do the things I used to do even 5 years ago.
