The Chinese saws are here, and they are becoming popular

[Fubar]

They're not slave labor.
Most of the people who work in these factories for $5.00 a day or whatever they make are coming in from the countryside where they are dirt poor making the same money in a month rather than a day.
There was a time America was like that too, we managed to overcome it, so will the Chinese.
It's a big pool, plenty of room for everyone in my opinion (business wise that is)
And I really don't give a fck if they eventually make a product as good as or better than Stihl ... cuz I'll buy it if they do.
After the war, Japan had the same status the Chinese do now, everything they made was junk.
Now the best stuff in the world is made in Japan to a large degree.

so you will work for $5 a day ? and not complain when i take that $5 back for food and board , and then be happy when i lock you in the barn at night so you can't escape or god forbid steal something , dude knock yourself out on china made crap .

 

[nyctreeman]

so you will work for $5 a day ? and not complain when i take that $5 back for food and board , and then be happy when i lock you in the barn at night so you can't escape or god forbid steal something , dude knock yourself out on china made crap .

I worked for $3.90 per hour once.
That was my entry into the working world.
Then I began doing tree work with my father and moved to $8.00 per hour.
Now when I feel like working, I make about $100.00 per hour.
It's all relative.
There's a great documentary on Wal-Mart in China on youtube that debunks all this slave labor stuff that our politicians and media would have us believe.
By the way ... the average American is "forced" to work about 4.5 to 5 months per year to pay his or her debt off to the government ...
Slave labor anyone?
I have a friend who works in Shenzhen as a translator, it's a massive city that millions live in, they are not all poor, most are enjoying a better living standard than we are in Obamanation ... but there are poor people of course, just like there are in NYC or any big city in America.
The thing that really hurts wages in China is the same thing that hurts wages here ... too much Socialism.
China has a lot of problems, both with certain cultural aspects of their society, population size, corruption, etc, but where they were 30 years ago for the average person in China compared today is a huge difference.

 

[Brettl]

Actually, how do we know that some of our brand name saws don't source certain parts from China? Or anywhere else?

 

[Mad Professor]

Here in Ireland, the costs of saws are ridiculous. It has a lot to do with being an Island of only 5.5 million or so + silly tariffs and taxes + dealers selling in very low volume. A pro saw here goes for nearly half again what it does stateside at todays exchange rate. When the Euro is strong, it starts to push closer to twice the costs.

However, the largest ports in Europe are in England. The Chinese can land saws there, with full EU certs, for next to nothing. After that, it is a quick jump into Ireland with no further tariffs or taxes.

They go by several brand names like AMA and Zomax. But because they have to pass EU regs, they are actually close copies of their Husky and Echo equivalents. I haven't seen a Stihl copy yet. I was in my local shop today in Tipperary when I saw this sitting on a shelf:

View attachment 402226

The phone doesn't take great pics, but you get the idea here. It's a copy of an Husqvarna model 61. And it does a fairly good job of it aside from the orange peel paint job. The plastics feel fairly robust, and the chassis is likely aluminum since it felt sort of heavy ish. The controls were plenty chincy, tho. The B&C's are Oregon, and appeared to me to be OEM stuff.

It sells for about half the cost of a Husqvarna 365 X Torq. They have a lot of them out in the field in ranch and farmer's hands, and sold more than two dozen last year during the storms. I am told the controls fail on occasion, but the rest of the saw tends to be sound. I wonder if they had to pay Husqvarna royalties to get the EU certs and imports...

Anywho, ya'll discuss.

God help us the Chi-Coms won't.

What ever happened to patents and patent law enforcement?

 

[Mad Professor]

I worked for $3.90 per hour once.
That was my entry into the working world.
Then I began doing tree work with my father and moved to $8.00 per hour.
Now when I feel like working, I make about $100.00 per hour.
It's all relative.
There's a great documentary on Wal-Mart in China on youtube that debunks all this slave labor stuff that our politicians and media would have us believe.
By the way ... the average American is "forced" to work about 4.5 to 5 months per year to pay his or her debt off to the government ...
Slave labor anyone?
I have a friend who works in Shenzhen as a translator, it's a massive city that millions live in, they are not all poor, most are enjoying a better living standard than we are in Obamanation ... but there are poor people of course, just like there are in NYC or any big city in America.
The thing that really hurts wages in China is the same thing that hurts wages here ... too much Socialism.
China has a lot of problems, both with certain cultural aspects of their society, population size, corruption, etc, but where they were 30 years ago for the average person in China compared today is a huge difference.

Got you beat.

40 hour week $100. Easy stuff too, a farm.

 

[wyk]

Actually, how do we know that some of our brand name saws don't source certain parts from China? Or anywhere else?

I would be surprised if most of the plastics weren't from china.

 

[Brettl]

Yep. Grommets, seals, gaskets, fasteners, and who knows what else. I'd like to see a private lab do a metallurgy test on Stihl or other big brand motor parts and other aftermarket parts of known manufacturing origin.

 

[El Quachito]

I'd be interested to hear how these saws hold up to regular use. It sounds like people are actually buying them and doing a little cutting.

 

[TIMBERTRON]

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR

 

[Chris-PA]

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR

Yup, sometimes you pay a lot for the brand name on the side - and that's what you get.

 

[Rockjock]

I'd be interested to hear how these saws hold up to regular use. It sounds like people are actually buying them and doing a little cutting.

You have to define regular use. The few that I have seen are hardly used and will not start , then they do run but sound rough. The ones I saw were branded GIO and were total fakes. Right down to the fake oregon bar and chains.
A saw that costs 40-50 bucks pretty much explains it all. For some tools are just a means to an end for others they are an investment.

 

[New Hampster]

Regardless of brand and country of origin, the people that designed and manufactured these modern saws to begin with are the only ones worth honoring.
Not the bottom feeders that mock and steal others' inventiveness.
By buying a cheap rip off, you're basically saying, "Screw your inventiveness. You're not worth it. Don't bother inventing anything else." Your purchase discourages evolution of products
and robs those with the fire to fearlessly create new products.
Imagine if the bulk of your customers started saying the same thing about you.
When money becomes more of a focus than respect for your fellow man and his/her talents, we all lose in the end.
You get sub-par products and exploited people which makes the whole of society miserable and dejected.

 

[nyctreeman]

Regardless of brand and country of origin, the people that designed and manufactured these modern saws to begin with are the only ones worth honoring.
Not the bottom feeders that mock and steal others' inventiveness.
By buying a cheap rip off, you're basically saying, "Screw your inventiveness. You're not worth it. Don't bother inventing anything else." Your purchase discourages evolution of products
and robs those with the fire to fearlessly create new products.
Imagine if the bulk of your customers started saying the same thing about you.
When money becomes more of a focus than respect for your fellow man and his/her talents, we all lose in the end.
You get sub-par products and exploited people which makes the whole of society miserable and dejected.

There is a caveat to your argument here.
For example, for about 30 years, the Chevrolet division of GM ignored the huge demand for original products to fix or restore vintage Chevrolet vehicles, and because of this "corporate blindness", hundreds of aftermarket companies emerged, and some of them began to produce reproductions that were actually as good as or even superior to the original.
Finally some of the corporate dumb asses woke up and recognized they were missing out on a billion dollar demand in the industry and started making the original parts again ... to what level of success I'm not sure, but certainly they missed out on sales revenues that would be tough to calculate.
Corporations tend to drift into this kind of stupidity, much of it is the arrogance that the customer will always pay whatever price is demanded by the brand, and to a point that's true, but there is a curve here that corporations almost always miss or ignore.
Just think for a moment about the millions of after market parts made for Stihl (for example) ... that are relatively decent quality and usable ... the corporate morons at Stihl are arguably letting this demand be satisfied outside of their brand.
There is no justification for a cylinder and piston kit (for example) to cost over $300.00.
This is partially due to the corporate mentality of keeping rebuilds expensive enough to encourage purchasing new units, and that does make sense to a certain point (again - the curve), but there is a tipping point to which it becomes self defeating.
I might consider a Meteor set (for example) @ an average of $140.00 opposed to over $300.00 for the Stihl set, but if the Stihl set was $200.00, I'd buy the Stihl over the aftermarket set.

 

[Chris-PA]

There are a lot of assumptions going on here. Probably the majority of the Chinese saws are based on obsolete Zenoah designs. The Earthquakes are a good example - all based on obsolete Zenoah G5000 and G3800 saws without strato engines. These have been sold at several major US retailers. Do you think that these are counterfeit, illegal copies and that the owners of those designs have just not bothered to enforce their rights? Does it make sense that the corporate attorneys for these large retail chains would be OK with the risks associated with selling stolen copies? Or maybe a company like Zenoah sold the rights to their old designs?

Even if some are licensed copies that certainly does not mean all of them are, but it seems extreme to jump straight to assuming that if it's made in China it must be counterfeit stuff made by slave labor. Especially when you are typing those words on a device made in China, like the vast majority of every product you buy.

 

[New Hampster]

There is a caveat to your argument here.
For example, for about 30 years, the Chevrolet division of GM ignored the huge demand for original products to fix or restore vintage Chevrolet vehicles, and because of this "corporate blindness", hundreds of aftermarket companies emerged, and some of them began to produce reproductions that were actually as good as or even superior to the original.
Finally some of the corporate dumb asses woke up and recognized they were missing out on a billion dollar demand in the industry and started making the original parts again ... to what level of success I'm not sure, but certainly they missed out on sales revenues that would be tough to calculate.
Corporations tend to drift into this kind of stupidity, much of it is the arrogance that the customer will always pay whatever price is demanded by the brand, and to a point that's true, but there is a curve here that corporations almost always miss or ignore.
Just think for a moment about the millions of after market parts made for Stihl (for example) ... that are relatively decent quality and usable ... the corporate morons at Stihl are arguably letting this demand be satisfied outside of their brand.
There is no justification for a cylinder and piston kit (for example) to cost over $300.00.
This is partially due to the corporate mentality of keeping rebuilds expensive enough to encourage purchasing new units, and that does make sense to a certain point (again - the curve), but there is a tipping point to which it becomes self defeating.
I might consider a Meteor set (for example) @ an average of $140.00 opposed to over $300.00 for the Stihl set, but if the Stihl set was $200.00, I'd buy the Stihl over the aftermarket set.

There are certainly situations as you stated. But, for the most part, saving .50 cents on a can opener is where the majority of skilled labor is lost.
Look at it this way. If the rest of the country felt your labor was worth $25.00/hr and you made a livable wage, buying a $300 p/c kit wouldn't sting so much.
Focusing on money makes everything about money. Then the humanity of creation becomes a commodity instead of a cherished human characteristic worth supporting. It become s a negative feedback loop.

 

[El Quachito]

You have to define regular use. The few that I have seen are hardly used and will not start , then they do run but sound rough. The ones I saw were branded GIO and were total fakes. Right down to the fake oregon bar and chains.
A saw that costs 40-50 bucks pretty much explains it all. For some tools are just a means to an end for others they are an investment.

Is it good enough to keep using or is it like a $75 weed eater that is total garbage? Sounds like garbage if it is in the "will not start, then they do run but sound rough" category. That kind of tool renders itself useless even for limited use like occaisional storm cleanup.

 

[El Quachito]

There are a lot of assumptions going on here. Probably the majority of the Chinese saws are based on obsolete Zenoah designs. The Earthquakes are a good example - all based on obsolete Zenoah G5000 and G3800 saws without strato engines. These have been sold at several major US retailers. Do you think that these are counterfeit, illegal copies and that the owners of those designs have just not bothered to enforce their rights? Does it make sense that the corporate attorneys for these large retail chains would be OK with the risks associated with selling stolen copies? Or maybe a company like Zenoah sold the rights to their old designs?

Even if some are licensed copies that certainly does not mean all of them are, but it seems extreme to jump straight to assuming that if it's made in China it must be counterfeit stuff made by slave labor. Especially when you are typing those words on a device made in China, like the vast majority of every product you buy.

I think there is some hope here, sort of like Japanese motorcycles that were laughed at back in the day--now look at them. Earthquake needs to lower its prices some or I say it is not worth the risk on an oddball brand.

 

[Rockjock]

I think there is some hope here, sort of like Japanese motorcycles that were laughed at back in the day--now look at them. Earthquake needs to lower its prices some or I say it is not worth the risk on an oddball brand.

I would have to say yes and no. Hope is there IF they build their own saw and not just copy others. Companies go to china for the cheap labour but they bring their own equipment. As I said you can not expect much from a $ 50.00 saw. The weedeaters are another story we are talking a 10-15.00 item. Again as someone said you get what you pay for.

 

[Chris-PA]

I'd be interested to hear how these saws hold up to regular use. It sounds like people are actually buying them and doing a little cutting.

My 62cc clone will get a lot of use this summer, but then I had to take it apart and put it back together correctly or it would not work at all. My Earthquake had no significant issues at all.

On the other hand, if they had wanted to spend just a little bit more time on training and assembly they could have had a quite good product - and that is certainly within their capability. There is nothing wrong with the design of the saws they are making.

 

[Go Devil]

By buying a cheap rip off, you're basically saying, "Screw your inventiveness. You're not worth it. Don't bother inventing anything else."

Yup. It also says, "I stole your idea why don't you come over here and whip my ass."

There's a great documentary on Wal-Mart in China

lol Wal-Mart.