The Descriptive Process

[catbuster]

Deere up'ed the price on ALL of their parts, like 1000% even on the old stuff a couple years ago, so now I get everything online, or get the part # and go to my local NAPA, it takes about the same amount of time but I save 1000's vs messing with the stealership. The worst thing is having the dealer that sold your machine new, still sells the same make, lie and tell you its a "grey market machine" so parts are hard to find and going to be more expensive... news flash a JD 490E is IDENTICLE to an Hitachi ex120 except the motor, and the operator seat.

The Cat Dealer around here is expensive, but not real bad, however they also have parts guys that know how to look up parts WITHOUT a serial number.

Skeans & I had a doscjssion a while back about Cat and why he won’t buy anything from them again, but to shoot straight with you, there aren’t many other companies that can back their product like them through a dealer network. Period. It’s hard to get away from that, and their parts are in line with the other makes and models. Mind, I say back as in you can get a full D9 final drive overnighted from Seattle to Amaknak Island, not that they’ll fix your stuff for free after it’s out of warranty or they fix damage you did as a warranty claim. That’s not how that works.

Ron, I was in Cat’s largest skid steer today. It was the lower horsepower option of the machine I told that softdown guy to buy and, well, you know how that went. I like the 299, it has some nice geatures compared to its competetors.

Granite Rock (GRC) does our maintenance as a donation. I was at the quarry a few weeks ago where they had a quite new D11 and a 988 (I think) also new both with the motors sitting on the ground next to them. Both were under warranty. Cat was not happy.

Geez, that’s a lot of engine there. D11s are monsters-more dozer than I’m comfortable on, for sure. I’ve only been on one 988, it was an old F model, the largest wheel loader I’ve been o

 

[Skeans]

Skeans & I had a doscjssion a while back about Cat and why he won’t buy anything from them again, but to shoot straight with you, there aren’t many other companies that can back their product like them through a dealer network. Period. It’s hard to get away from that, and their parts are in line with the other makes and models. Mind, I say back as in you can get a full D9 final drive overnighted from Seattle to Amaknak Island, not that they’ll fix your stuff for free after it’s out of warranty or they fix damage you did as a warranty claim. That’s not how that works.

Ron, I was in Cat’s largest skid steer today. It was the lower horsepower option of the machine I told that softdown guy to buy and, well, you know how that went. I like the 299, it has some nice geatures compared to its competetors.



Geez, that’s a lot of engine there. D11s are monsters-more dozer than I’m comfortable on, for sure. I’ve only been on one 988, it was an old F model, the largest wheel loader I’ve been o

They will till they won’t is what we’ve found out the hard way a couple of times but most forestry equipment is that way. Where you’re going to run into issues is electrical components they can’t get anymore then you’re stuck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rwoods]

Skeans & I had a doscjssion a while back about Cat and why he won’t buy anything from them again, but to shoot straight with you, there aren’t many other companies that can back their product like them through a dealer network. Period. It’s hard to get away from that, and their parts are in line with the other makes and models. Mind, I say back as in you can get a full D9 final drive overnighted from Seattle to Amaknak Island, not that they’ll fix your stuff for free after it’s out of warranty or they fix damage you did as a warranty claim. That’s not how that works.

Ron, I was in Cat’s largest skid steer today. It was the lower horsepower option of the machine I told that softdown guy to buy and, well, you know how that went. I like the 299, it has some nice geatures compared to its competetors.



Geez, that’s a lot of engine there. D11s are monsters-more dozer than I’m comfortable on, for sure. I’ve only been on one 988, it was an old F model, the largest wheel loader I’ve been o

My opinion is worth about as much as a guy who has only sat in a Ferrari in the showroom and told you it handles great. That said, the CAT skid steer sure is nice. So is the D6.

Ron

 

[northmanlogging]

A week ago today, I moved the essavotor closer to home (it was 2 hours away) so that I could get some much needed work done (repacking cylinders etc)

So far between Dumb trucking, Self Loather, and Contract timber cutting, Not to mention the odd flat tire (5 this week alone) I've spent exactly 3 hours working on the excavator

 

[catbuster]

It’s alright, I just have to keep telling myself “it’s going to be okay,” and “it’s got to get better” an awful lot these days.

I’ll come cut for you, if you want, at this point. Gotta be better than fighting this project. It has me about to fold my firm into another bigger outfit and taking up a job as a superintendent there. The offer they made is looking better and better.

 

[Woodslasher]

View attachment 923661
It’s alright, I just have to keep telling myself “it’s going to be okay,” and “it’s got to get better” an awful lot these days.

I know a bit about dirt work, but what happened there?

 

[catbuster]

I know a bit about dirt work, but what happened there?

What that is is an entire ******* intersection that collapsed.

To start: I’m laying 18” sewer and having to dig 18’-21 deep to do it. The soils are sand and I’m like 6000’ from the Ohio River. Soils are… Terrible. I have a deep well dewatering system set up and it’s hard. Slide rails or Z piles/sheet piling are about the only ways to shore this stuff, and to use piling 20’ deep you need some 40’ piles to get enough bite into the ground to keep it from kicking and not have a strut for each pile. I don’t own a crane and a vibratory tool to drive sheet piles, nor will existing conditions allow it, there’s 27 KV three phase running way too close for comfort, we had to offset dewatering wells for the drill rig to come in and be far enough away to sink wells.

Driving the rails in a slide rail system is a violent process that shakes the hell out of the ground immediately next to the system. As you drive the panels you dig out from under them, and the banks collapse some that leaves a void. When the rails are driven more falls in, and into the void.

Where we’re working there isn’t much restraint used on existing water main. It’s pretty much a gripper ring to keep valves from blowing off and they’re using kickers to keep the lines in one pieces. Well, when the soils move around and a void opens up nothing restrains the pipe and it blew apart. All the sand and gravel blew out and took the intersection with it.

That would be what happened in there with a little bit of detail.

 

[northmanlogging]

View attachment 923661
It’s alright, I just have to keep telling myself “it’s going to be okay,” and “it’s got to get better” an awful lot these days.

I’ll come cut for you, if you want, at this point. Gotta be better than fighting this project. It has me about to fold my firm into another bigger outfit and taking up a job as a superintendent there. The offer they made is looking better and better.

they want "me" and "me" alone, half of this stuff I'm cutting I could do blind folded, but the folks they normally hire have issues... lots of issues... dependency issues, saw maintenance issues, transportation issues, vision issues, sanity issues, biggest one though, insurance issues, as in, NO ONE WILL INSURE THEM issues.

I know a bit about dirt work, but what happened there?

I'm a guess and say a pipe broke, or maybe some lack of compaction followed by lots of rain water in a poorly installed pipe, i.e. gaps where there shouldn't be gaps

 

[northmanlogging]

What that is is an entire ****ing intersection that collapsed.

To start: I’m laying 18” sewer and having to dig 18’-21 deep to do it. The soils are sand and I’m like 6000’ from the Ohio River. Soils are… Terrible. I have a deep well dewatering system set up and it’s hard. Slide rails or Z piles/sheet piling are about the only ways to shore this stuff, and to use piling 20’ deep you need some 40’ piles to get enough bite into the ground to keep it from kicking and not have a strut for each pile. I don’t own a crane and a vibratory tool to drive sheet piles, nor will existing conditions allow it, there’s 27 KV three phase running way too close for comfort, we had to offset dewatering wells for the drill rig to come in and be far enough away to sink wells.

Driving the rails in a slide rail system is a violent process that shakes the hell out of the ground immediately next to the system. As you drive the panels you dig out from under them, and the banks collapse some that leaves a void. When the rails are driven more falls in, and into the void.

Where we’re working there isn’t much restraint used on existing water main. It’s pretty much a gripper ring to keep valves from blowing off and they’re using kickers to keep the lines in one pieces. Well, when the soils move around and a void opens up nothing restrains the pipe and it blew apart. All the sand and gravel blew out and took the intersection with it.

That would be what happened in there with a little bit of detail.

Wholey ole fawk... well I was half right, but the cause is insanity...

 

[catbuster]

Wholey ole fawk... well I was half right, but the cause is insanity...

I’ve been doing this **** for over half my life now, and I told the water company something like this was going to happen before we even started. I fell on deaf ears. This equipment is heavy, to the point where my smallest excavator is 80,000 pounds and the two mainline ones are in the ~110,000 pound range and the the rail and spreader sets weigh more than your excavator. (See attached image) The work is violent, but it’s not possible to do it with smaller stuff and do it more softly without killing somebody. Doing this with trench boxes or short pilings is asking for a trench collapse that would eat the street curb to curb. I thought about renting a Cat 390 or 800 Komatsu/Deeretachi for this job and then I remembered the 27KV 3 phase overhead and the fact I’m on a two lane road with the poles right up next to it so I’d be whacking the counterweight on them.

Then I thought about just letting the bond company have it, for the first time, ever. Then my stupid pride got in the way and I decided I would just do it anyway. Now we’ve made it into the point where I’d get sued out of business even if I let the bond company have it and I’d never get another job anywhere if I didn’t finish, given that there’s no picking up where I left off if I pull shoring and it would take 6 months for another contractor to even get a crew started.

The only thing I’m confident in is that nobody could do a better job than what we’re doing right now. I’m very, very confident in that. I’m on site all day, 10-14 hours a day every working day. I would just like to not wake up yelling at the room as I’m acting a nightmare of arguing with the engineer.

Edit: Oh, and we’ve broken four one-inch cable choker slings with eyes in them yanking stuff out of the ground on this job. 20 ton clevises last a week and then the pins are bent and banana hooks don’t last much longer. I’ve doubled up on Gunnebo hooks, and the big ones I have to use for this job cost $2680, because I’m going through so many trigger kits and one is always out of service. Chain slings? Ha ha ha. Better bring at least 1/2”, 3/4 is better and they better only get used for setting stuff ‘cause they’re not an option for pulling.

 

[northmanlogging]

I’ve been doing this **** for over half my life now, and I told the water company something like this was going to happen before we even started. I fell on deaf ears. This equipment is heavy, to the point where my smallest excavator is 80,000 pounds and the two mainline ones are in the ~110,000 pound range and the the rail and spreader sets weigh more than your excavator. (See attached image) The work is violent, but it’s not possible to do it with smaller stuff and do it more softly without killing somebody. Doing this with trench boxes or short pilings is asking for a trench collapse that would eat the street curb to curb. I thought about renting a Cat 390 or 800 Komatsu/Deeretachi for this job and then I remembered the 27KV 3 phase overhead and the fact I’m on a two lane road with the poles right up next to it so I’d be whacking the counterweight on them.

Then I thought about just letting the bond company have it, for the first time, ever. Then my stupid pride got in the way and I decided I would just do it anyway. Now we’ve made it into the point where I’d get sued out of business even if I let the bond company have it and I’d never get another job anywhere if I didn’t finish, given that there’s no picking up where I left off if I pull shoring and it would take 6 months for another contractor to even get a crew started.

The only thing I’m confident in is that nobody could do a better job than what we’re doing right now. I’m very, very confident in that. I’m on site all day, 10-14 hours a day every working day. I would just like to not wake up yelling at the room as I’m acting a nightmare of arguing with the engineer.

Edit: Oh, and we’ve broken four one-inch cable choker slings with eyes in them yanking stuff out of the ground on this job. 20 ton clevises last a week and then the pins are bent and banana hooks don’t last much longer. I’ve doubled up on Gunnebo hooks, and the big ones I have to use for this job cost $2680, because I’m going through so many trigger kits and one is always out of service. Chain slings? Ha ha ha. Better bring at least 1/2”, 3/4 is better and they better only get used for setting stuff ‘cause they’re not an option for pulling.

Is there any light at the end of the sewer? or is it a long ways off?

I have to ask why they Hell are they burying a sewer pipe 20' deep when its that close to a river in the first place?, I'm thinking that a pump station or 20, would of been cheaper in the long run, keep the pipes no more then 10' down, but what do I know, I'm just a logger. But I do know that if you're digging in saturated soils (which they should of done some core drilling first and therefore known about) that digging deeper is just begging for more trouble. These are all things I'm sure you've pointed out multiple times already...

 

[catbuster]

Is there any light at the end of the sewer? or is it a long ways off?

I have to ask why they Hell are they burying a sewer pipe 20' deep when its that close to a river in the first place?, I'm thinking that a pump station or 20, would of been cheaper in the long run, keep the pipes no more then 10' down, but what do I know, I'm just a logger. But I do know that if you're digging in saturated soils (which they should of done some core drilling first and therefore known about) that digging deeper is just begging for more trouble. These are all things I'm sure you've pointed out multiple times already...

638 feet left on COB today. Two manholes and a few lateral connections. Probably four weeks of work. This section of sewer is so freakin’ deep because it runs through a high spot in a… Let’s just call it long section of pipe. For gravity flow there’s not much of a choice. It’s also a collector, so it has to run under everything that drops into it, and the laterals have to flow into the 18” pipe, which means it has to run deeper than the existing. As far as soils are concerned, you’d be surprised how much drawdown you can get from a 5 HP pump with a 2” discharge drilled 35’ into the ground in a casing pipe with the right filter material. Throw one every 50’ and groundwater has been sucked down between the 23 and 27’ level since April, rain be damned… Broken water main discharge was not counted. It was actually part of the sub’s contract agreement.

We did actually run force main on this job from two pump stations, about a mile 6 and 10 inch that we knocked out of the park, did it in three weeks with a 145 Link-Belt, skid steer and a wheel loader running between the force main crew and the deep guys. There is a lot of force main in this area, but for whatever reason collectors are gravity, I dunno why. I like water pipe, force main and gas pipe, it’s pretty fast paced and not a slog of heavy rigging, violent driving and desperately avoiding all the other stuff in the way.

The city had an EPA mandate put on them, and this is the most logical thing to do, believe it or not. We just picked up the hardest section of this job. Everybody knew the water was there, anyone who has ever dug in Louisville, Jeffersonville or New Albany knows it and we have ways to handle it. There are sand pits in downtown Louisvile that are over a hundred feet deep. There was a full geotechnical report on the job, we knew what we were getting into and planned for it. What I could not plan for was the piss poor condition of existing infrastructure or the seething nepotism of the city and local utility providers trying to glue, screw and tattoo us for the inevitable. But I digress.

 

[northmanlogging]

638 feet left on COB today. Two manholes and a few lateral connections. Probably four weeks of work. This section of sewer is so freakin’ deep because it runs through a high spot in a… Let’s just call it long section of pipe. For gravity flow there’s not much of a choice. It’s also a collector, so it has to run under everything that drops into it, and the laterals have to flow into the 18” pipe, which means it has to run deeper than the existing. As far as soils are concerned, you’d be surprised how much drawdown you can get from a 5 HP pump with a 2” discharge drilled 35’ into the ground in a casing pipe with the right filter material. Throw one every 50’ and groundwater has been sucked down between the 23 and 27’ level since April, rain be damned… Broken water main discharge was not counted. It was actually part of the sub’s contract agreement.

We did actually run force main on this job from two pump stations, about a mile 6 and 10 inch that we knocked out of the park, did it in three weeks with a 145 Link-Belt, skid steer and a wheel loader running between the force main crew and the deep guys. There is a lot of force main in this area, but for whatever reason collectors are gravity, I dunno why. I like water pipe, force main and gas pipe, it’s pretty fast paced and not a slog of heavy rigging, violent driving and desperately avoiding all the other stuff in the way.

The city had an EPA mandate put on them, and this is the most logical thing to do, believe it or not. We just picked up the hardest section of this job. Everybody knew the water was there, anyone who has ever dug in Louisville, Jeffersonville or New Albany knows it and we have ways to handle it. There are sand pits in downtown Louisvile that are over a hundred feet deep. There was a full geotechnical report on the job, we knew what we were getting into and planned for it. What I could not plan for was the piss poor condition of existing infrastructure or the seething nepotism of the city and local utility providers trying to glue, screw and tattoo us for the inevitable. But I digress.

ah, nepotism... say no more.

Be nice if folks could figure out that gub-a-mint is there to provide a service to the people, not a job for unemployable morons.

In other Whiny news... I've been climbing all over equipment so much lately, that my poor legs are having trouble fitting in already baggy pants... between the crane work on the Disservice truck (which means climbing in and out of it for every lift 3-4 times cause groundies, who needs em) and climbing the loader on the log truck....pretty sure I have a good chance of placing in any local strongman competitions, but I refuse to wear sweat pants to work....

 

[northmanlogging]

Don't take this as whinging, its more of an observation.
Running the self loader, I tend to work with a lot of excavation type companies, and it seems that most of them are so tight with a penny if they ever let loose of it it would of turned to gold, they skimp and save on nearly everything, get the cheapest trucking, cheapest rock, pipe, etc, bitch about cost overruns whine constantly about fuel prices, taxes, labor on and on.

But then they take perfectly good timber, mangle the ever loving **** out if it with the biggest machine they got, toss whats left into haphazard pile, then call me 3-6 months later and want the logs hauled yesterday... Meanwhile, in their burn pile are 20-30' "butt" cuts and loads of what could be short logs destined to become a cost, when they could of been cleaned up, with just a couple of minutes per log, then sent on to the mill and get a paycheck worth way more then the time invested. Then they have the audacity to say a hell man, "its not worth my time"

Bruh...

it takes about 3 hours to clean up a few logs to make a load, a load the could potentially be worth $3000, but its cool your machine makes $150 ish an hour. (its pretty ******* simple math folks)


Sometimes its hard to keep my mouth shut.

On a side note, yeah fuel prices suck, they ALLWAYS HAVE, if you're not making enough to pay your fuel bill without bothering to check the price everytime, you're doing it wrong my dudes, if the machine makes you $1500 on even $400 in fuel in a day... you've still cleared more then most folks make in a week even if you figure the machine gets half.

 

[northmanlogging]

9-10 these same folks will use clear diesel in their machines, rather then tax free red diesel, then while filling their transfer tanks look you straight in the eye with no concept of irony and bitch about B+O taxes.

 

[Jhenderson]

All one needs do is file the correct form with the IRS to recoup all deductible taxes at the end of the year. When I do that I end up paying less per gallon than if I purchased off road fuel to begin with.

 

[catbuster]

I’d be lying to you if I told you the fuel in the tank of my one-ton is red. But, well… Truck drivers. I don’t know how somebody forgets to fuel up in the afternoon but I seem to get a call about a truck out of fuel way too often. If it makes its way into an excavator so be it.

Wood is secondary to the excavating work. It’s that simple. They don’t really care, you’re as much getting the wood out of their way as they’re getting paid for trees. You’re right, they don’t realize what kind of check they could be getting from just not smashing the stuff into a pile with their 350 Link-Belt.

 

[northmanlogging]

I’d be lying to you if I told you the fuel in the tank of my one-ton is red. But, well… Truck drivers. I don’t know how somebody forgets to fuel up in the afternoon but I seem to get a call about a truck out of fuel way too often. If it makes its way into an excavator so be it.

Wood is secondary to the excavating work. It’s that simple. They don’t really care, you’re as much getting the wood out of their way as they’re getting paid for trees. You’re right, they don’t realize what kind of check they could be getting from just not smashing the stuff into a pile with their 350 Link-Belt.

that is like the one exception, cause yeah truck drivers are fecking idiots... How hard is it to stop either first thing in the morning, or last thing before hitting the yard and fill up? Then you have enough fuel to run all day without issues...

Or maybe I'm just used to not having a working or reliable fuel gauge?

Even then a couple gallons of dyed goes away quick if you're in a pinch... not saying i've ever done this, nor would I ever do such a thing in the future...

This one time, while on a camp out job, with the sort if company I'm bitching about, one of the monkeys that should of been working hid in the service truck for a week with the engine running. I had the misfortune of being the poor sot to be the only one with a cdl, and had to drive it home 100mi to the yard... turns out they had shut off the crossover for the duel tanks, and the fuel gauge was in the full tank... They had also nearly drained the transfer tank of all but about 2 gallons of red diesel, it was dark, raining and in the middle of a narrow winding road... took an hour to reprime it with every name in the book hollered at me in the process, but I did get the ******* back to the yard without getting towed...

This would be the same service truck that broke the supply fuel line while driving on to a WA state ferry... dumping several gallons onto the pristine deck of that boat... the crew was not impressed...the shoved me off on the other side, and said good luck sucker... but I did have a torch, and was able to braze it together while the Sunday tourist crowds watched in awe/horror as this hairy monster man played with fire while spilling diesel everywhere... Last I knew it was still brazed no one has bothered to order the replacement parts and fix it correctly.

 

[catbuster]

that is like the one exception, cause yeah truck drivers are fecking idiots... How hard is it to stop either first thing in the morning, or last thing before hitting the yard and fill up? Then you have enough fuel to run all day without issues...

Or maybe I'm just used to not having a working or reliable fuel gauge?

Even then a couple gallons of dyed goes away quick if you're in a pinch... not saying i've ever done this, nor would I ever do such a thing in the future...

You know what’s even worse? There’s a 5000 gallon tank marked “truck diesel” on the yard. How do you not fuel up when it’s right there? I mean, come on. The trucks go to the yard every day.

 

[northmanlogging]

You know what’s even worse? There’s a 5000 gallon tank marked “truck diesel” on the yard. How do you not fuel up when it’s right there? I mean, come on. The trucks go to the yard every day.

the simple answer... fecking lazy, the truth they is stupid.