The Descriptive Process

[slowp]

*shudder*

I can't stop washing...

Then you'd best use Dove and have hand lotion handy!

 

[OlympicYJ]

Maybe so. I learned a long time ago not to apply logic and common sense to any situation involving more than two government agencies on the same job at the same time. If you argue with them beyond a certain point you might as well be talking to a tree. They take refuge in their data...they don't have to think too much that way and it eliminates the possibility that they might make a decision that will irritate their superiors.

They have rule books. :msp_rolleyes:

Some of the government people I deal with are knowledgeable and practical people. They are gems and there are way too few of them. Some of them come from a logging background and, while still having to carry the government message, they're not adverse to applying common sense solutions to problems. There were some of them that I liked seeing come to our jobs. They contributed to the process and even if we didn't always agree on things they made their point in such a way that you could see the idea of it.

Most of them are older people and many of them are retiring or have retired already. Alas.
They're being replaced by bright, articulate, college educated people with no real experience in the woods. Hence the refuge of the rule book. If you ask them a question you generally get one of two answers..." I'll check on that and get back to you" which means that you may or may not ever hear from them again...or "NO, the contract doesn't cover that and if it's not in the contract we can't allow it". If you argue with them they get very nervous and tend to stammer a lot. They cite their education and the rule book as a legitimate excuse for their lack of real experience.

The focus is going away from timber harvest, and a preservationist mind set has taken over. There's nothing I can do to change that but living and working with it is hard sometimes.

Unfortunately the good ones in govt service are retiring. Still a few good ones out there with a ways to go like hatte. There are some very practical ppl going here to the University of Idaho and i like to count myself as one. Like me, most will probably head for the private sector to avoid the bs involved in working for the gov. I will say the Idaho Dept of Lands seems to be a good agency. Not like Cali or WA. Very logging oriented. Hell they're still logging the last of their old growth. In Wa dnr wouldn't touch it if they had it! I know one of the forest practices foresters in Wa. Old guard will work with you or like ya say explain it so you see the point. Even he's looking to go to the private sector...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[hammerlogging]

That's just plain ugly. I won't even try to imagine what would happen here if the agencies stumbled around the woods with their rule books. Here the environment protection things are strictly regulated by law. Compliance with the law, it's all up to you how you do it. If you screw up and break the law, you'll possibly spend some quality time behind the bars. But nobody will show up in the bush to tell you how to be good.

You need lazier clerks, if you don't mind me saying that. The ones who'll nap whole day in the pick up.

This very much speaks to the crap that we're faced with. To preserve our "freedom" we have forest practices "guidelines" that are enforce if the results have qualified as a law breaker, i.e. dirt in the creek. Alternatively, others have forest practices "acts" which define acceptable operations for particular conditions, if you follow basic procedures, you're off the hook, even if there is dirt in the creek. The question is not wether or not there is dirt in the creek, there will be some either way, hopefully not much, but between the inevitable and crappy operators, there will be some. I kind of like the "acts" because I like to emphasize performance. Compliance is not a concern for me, generaly these standards ALSO allow for enhanced productivity, but for others this is too much a sacrifice in "freedom" and the "acts" route sounds beaurocratic, which is of course seemingly synonymous with "socialist". Playing by the book is actually not really very hard.

In regards to the perfromance of some gov't employees, I think its as much a personality type as anything, and so many people don't have the guts to make a decision and stand by it, at god forbid, the risk of being.......wrong. Indecisive people are very threatened and insecure; while they can't help you, they sure can get in your way.

 

[northmanlogging]

Done seen the strangest thing tonight... Dodge 3500 with a set of bunks in the back and a log trailer behind it... they had taken the duals off but still sporting the full size wheels... luckily they wern't trying to haul any logs like that... I think

 

[RandyMac]

I got sent home, four hours early, I wonder if it was something I said.

 

[KYLogger]

"Pathetic man cold", mud, "pathetic man cold", mud, and the crummy is broke down, using personal truck to ferry muddy loggers and haul fuel. Man I didn't realize how muddy and nasty my old truck actually was until we started trashing my personal truck.........Oh yeah and somethin' is wrong with the dozer. When "pathetic man cold" ceases time to tear into the 450. Fun, fun.

 

[M.R.]

Done seen the strangest thing tonight... Dodge 3500 with a set of bunks in the back and a log trailer behind it... they had taken the duals off but still sporting the full size wheels... luckily they wern't trying to haul any logs like that... I think

Done seen the strangest thing tonight... Dodge 3500 with a set of bunks in the back and a log trailer behind it... they had taken the duals off but still sporting the full size wheels... luckily they wern't trying to haul any logs like that... I think

They do look funny, my 91 W-350 sure does with the 9' FB on it.
For years I've pulled the inside duals for winter [unless I'm needing the load cap.] to get around & into my place,



With the 4:10 gearing hoping the fuel mileage will be better [ have seen 3-5 mpg difference in the past], This year I went to a taller studded set of four & where I can't dual them because of the sidewall clearance........ Regardless I needed the extra clearance thru the drifts living @ the 4500'elevation & a couple of short grades from town, on the county road are 16-18%



The down side of running them this way is the tracking & on the payment where the truck have rolled or grooved it

it drifts & akin to the feeling of driving on Black Ice. I recon' most can relate to the pucker factor here! In getting used to it.







For the 'Descriptive Whine'
I just bought a set of 4 oversized studded shoes @ $1,445

 

[madhatte]

A SMART tree nerd doesn't let the ol' Filson coat drain into the Romeos while driving from one site to the next.

Just sayin'.

 

[OlympicYJ]

A SMART tree nerd doesn't let the ol' Filson coat drain into the Romeos while driving from one site to the next.

Just sayin'.

Or leave the tin pants to drip off at home above em! What coat ya have? I just got the logger coat over chritmas. Now I've got a full set of tins.

After taking a quiz today on 16 northwest conis I'd say it went really well. Anyone know Callitropsis nootkatensis? :msp_biggrin: Without using the internet? :msp_rolleyes:

 

[madhatte]

Gotta be a new name for Chamaecyparis, Alaska Yellow-Cedar. Dang ol' PhyloCode guys all learnin' about genetics. I have the coat with the slash pockets under the flap, no liner.

 

[OlympicYJ]

You would be correct sir. Yea apparently the newest update. My prof is a taxonomist so he's all up on that stuff lol

 

[madhatte]

It's getting kind of hard to keep up with. I suspect that we may be seeing the end of Linnaean taxonomy. I'm not exactly looking forward to learning everything all over again, but I admit that basing a taxonomic system on genetics rather than on observed morphology is probably more "right"... even if it DOES define cacti as being derived from primroses. Cladistics is a dark art.

 

[OlympicYJ]

Yea he talked about that a lil the other day in class. Sounds like it's gonna be around for a while at least. It will only matter to the scientists. I don't see it really affecting guys in the field. They're going away from abbreviations like DF to PSME or THPL for Western red cedar. Kinda screwed me up for a bit last semester lol

 

[paccity]

the larch.

 

[OlympicYJ]

That a western or a the other one I don't know?... yet

If Western Larix occidentalis

 

[mile9socounty]

the larch.

Isnt that some sort of ultra rare, highly endangered western golden?

 

[slowp]

Isnt that some sort of ultra rare, highly endangered western golden?

No, it would be good firewood. :msp_thumbup:

 

[OlympicYJ]

If that particular one were in the saw sight it might be... :msp_biggrin:

 

[slowp]

In E. Warshington, they are called Tamarack. That's to confuse you even more. And, as we found out, don't climb them with spurs. The bark tends to slough off.

The saying is, They die every winter.

 

[slowp]

Okay, my eastsider background and ignorance will now show. You coasty folks, can a cedar strip boat be made out of strips off a standing live cedar? I know that strips for baskets get pulled off and the tree recovers if you don't girdle it, but is the same method used for a boat?

I am skeptical.