The Moody 362 C-M

[procarbine2k1]

I was wondering the same? ? ? ?

How does a race saw cut through a cant in mere seconds, being leaned on as hard as the racer can, throwing chips 10 ft and not have torque?

I don't know, just looking for answers here.

 

[daryng]

while all the argument is going on over the muffler mod, i'm kind of disappointed that no one has chimed in the the flange on the second port. I personally hammered and shaped that thing out of sheet stainless on my trusty anvil....

 

[fin460]

Ha ha I wondered if anyone would say much. I really like how it dis colored to match the same color as the muffler


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[fin460]

Has any one mentioned that these two outlet ports on this 362cm don't appear to be the same size as an expected exhaust port or flange


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[fin460]

Moody sent me the math the outlets add up to 92%


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[fin460]

His original post in the build thread was misleading or a typo or not enough info


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[DexterDay]

while all the argument is going on over the muffler mod, i'm kind of disappointed that no one has chimed in the the flange on the second port. I personally hammered and shaped that thing out of sheet stainless on my trusty anvil....

Do you have another? I noticed it? That's why I asked if anyone had an nice deflector for sale.

 

[daryng]

I've kind of stood back and watched how this build thread has turned into a mud slinging match and I have to say that I am pretty disappointed. Moody has been doing some of his work in my shop, and I was there when he pulled in with the spanky new 362. We both ran it in stock form and I was there when he carefully tore it down, calculated the number, and skillfully grinded on the cylinder. I ran the saw as it went through each of the stages and I was extremely impressed in the gains.

In the grand scheme of things I know that I'm new to the site and I don't have near the experience as most members of the site. However I do recognize when I see someone that has a passion and skill. Moody certainly does. I've witnessed professional loggers saying "wow" to his work and handing him more saws, so obviously he is doing something right. I know I'm not going to hesitate having him port my saws, and I think someone would be foolish to judge him without even seeing or running his work.

 

[daryng]

Do you have another? I noticed it? That's why I asked if anyone had an nice deflector for sale.

oh, I'll see what I can do about smashing another one out...

 

[MustangMike]

I've been talking engines to people for over 40 years and I guess I just presumed that when I used the word torque everyone understood what I was talking about. Of course every engine has both HP & TQ, but generally when you refer to engines built for TQ, you are referring to a broader power band at lower RPMs. When you build an engine for maximum HP, it usually has a narrow power band and peak HP at high RPMs. Forgive me for presuming that everyone understood the difference. It is the difference between a racing saw and a wood port (everyday working saw). What works for one does not work for the other.

And I know that saws operate a WOT, but maximum RPMS are generally around 14,000 and in the wood they usually drop to about 9,000. That is when torque becomes important.

You can find some very good references to the difference from some very experienced people in the current thread "Ported 70 cc Work Saws".

Every engine performs best when all of the parts work in conjunction with each other. In another thread a guy put the stock muffler back on a ported saw and found that it rapidly built up excessive heat. That is because a stock muffler is not adequate for the volume of gasses a ported saw can flow.

The reason muffler porting on a stock saw is usually effective is because the EPA forces the manufactures to back up the exhaust gases so they will continue to burn more completely. The example that Windthrown gave of Stihl developing the duel port muffler covers for the 046 and 066, which increased power but were banned by the EPA, is an excellent example of this.

If a saw did not need any back pressure at all to function properly, racing saws would not have any muffler on them and woods ported saws would have racing style mufflers on them. There are reasons, related to saw performance, why they don't. I think most saw builders adhere to these parameters even if they think I am wrong. Have you ever noticed that you have never seen any engine, 2 cycle, 4 cycle racing or otherwise that does not have some sort of exhaust manifold or header on it? A lot of research goes into matching the exhaust manifold to the intended use of the engine.

I usually stand by what I say because I do my research. I have learned a tremendous amount since I joined AS. That does not make me an expert, but I am no dummy either.

Also, for the record, I do understand what the 80% relates to, go calculate it for yourself. All of the information is posted on this thread.

Also, for the Record, I think KG's saw sounds stronger than Moody's, and it is not ported (this is admittedly just an informal observation).

Hope everyone has a good evening.

 

[stihl sawing]

Oh me, getting close to locking this one. But not just yet.

 

[thomas1]

I've kind of stood back and watched how this build thread has turned into a mud slinging match and I have to say that I am pretty disappointed. Moody has been doing some of his work in my shop, and I was there when he pulled in with the spanky new 362. We both ran it in stock form and I was there when he carefully tore it down, calculated the number, and skillfully grinded on the cylinder. I ran the saw as it went through each of the stages and I was extremely impressed in the gains.

In the grand scheme of things I know that I'm new to the site and I don't have near the experience as most members of the site. However I do recognize when I see someone that has a passion and skill. Moody certainly does. I've witnessed professional loggers saying "wow" to his work and handing him more saws, so obviously he is doing something right. I know I'm not going to hesitate having him port my saws, and I think someone would be foolish to judge him without even seeing or running his work.

Were you there when he ported the 346 cylinder, that started this train wreck?

 

[OnTheRoad]

Do you have any evidence of too much of a muffler mod slowing a saw down? IIRC, Timberwof's testing showed continual gains as long as the opening got larger. However, the gains diminished quickly after a certain point. Unless I'm mistaken, there never was a point where it hurt power. Throttle response and usability are a different thing, but power...not buying it. Check out some of the faster saws at a racing event. Half the front of the muffler will be cut out, a straight shot from the exhaust port.

Internal combustion engines do not benefit from restrictions in the exhaust, period. Like you said, at a certain point gains diminish, but you will not lose power by making the exhaust less restrictive.

 

[jimmycrackcorn]

I've been talking engines to people for over 40 years and I guess I just presumed that when I used the word torque everyone understood what I was talking about. Of course every engine has both HP & TQ, but generally when you refer to engines built for TQ, you are referring to a broader power band at lower RPMs. When you build an engine for maximum HP, it usually has a narrow power band and peak HP at high RPMs. Forgive me for presuming that everyone understood the difference. It is the difference between a racing saw and a wood port (everyday working saw). What works for one does not work for the other.

And I know that saws operate a WOT, but maximum RPMS are generally around 14,000 and in the wood they usually drop to about 9,000. That is when torque becomes important.

You can find some very good references to the difference from some very experienced people in the current thread "Ported 70 cc Work Saws".

Every engine performs best when all of the parts work in conjunction with each other. In another thread a guy put the stock muffler back on a ported saw and found that it rapidly built up excessive heat. That is because a stock muffler is not adequate for the volume of gasses a ported saw can flow.

The reason muffler porting on a stock saw is usually effective is because the EPA forces the manufactures to back up the exhaust gases so they will continue to burn more completely. The example that Windthrown gave of Stihl developing the duel port muffler covers for the 046 and 066, which increased power but were banned by the EPA, is an excellent example of this.

If a saw did not need any back pressure at all to function properly, racing saws would not have any muffler on them and woods ported saws would have racing style mufflers on them. There are reasons, related to saw performance, why they don't. I think most saw builders adhere to these parameters even if they think I am wrong. Have you ever noticed that you have never seen any engine, 2 cycle, 4 cycle racing or otherwise that does not have some sort of exhaust manifold or header on it? A lot of research goes into matching the exhaust manifold to the intended use of the engine.

I usually stand by what I say because I do my research. I have learned a tremendous amount since I joined AS. That does not make me an expert, but I am no dummy either.

Also, for the record, I do understand what the 80% relates to, go calculate it for yourself. All of the information is posted on this thread.

Also, for the Record, I think KG's saw sounds stronger than Moody's, and it is not ported (this is admittedly just an informal observation).

Hope everyone has a good evening.

Oh me, getting close to locking this one. But not just yet.

Ohhhhh Mike!!! You done it now....!! Hahaha

 

[DexterDay]

Were you there when he ported the 346 cylinder, that started this train wreck?

Nope... ?

 

[Andyshine77]

I'm a friend of the Beast. I know everything he's taught me

Who is this beast you speak of?? He must be super awesome!!

Good to see you Brad talk to you soon.

 

[daryng]

Were you there when he ported the 346 cylinder, that started this train wreck?

I was, and as far as I know that cylinder was shipped, received, and should be a dead issue? We are all guilty of sometimes taking on more work than we can handle. If i remember correctly he was handed a truckload of 390xp cases and asked to build a few of them from a local logger while all that was going on, so it was pretty easy to get side tracked. I seem to remember him owning up to his mistake, so why the hatred towards him?

 

[KG441c]

Oh me, getting close to locking this one. But not just yet.

why would u lock it?? just curious

 

[thomas1]

I was, and as far as I know that cylinder was shipped, received, and should be a dead issue? We are all guilty of sometimes taking on more work than we can handle. If i remember correctly he was handed a truckload of 390xp cases and asked to build a few of them from a local logger while all that was going on, so it was pretty easy to get side tracked. I seem to remember him owning up to his mistake, so why the hatred towards him?

Any clue if he sent back the actual cylinder that was shipped to him?

 

[stihl sawing]

why would u lock it?? just curious

I'm not yet.