The Moody 362 C-M

[MustangMike]

Daryng, your shield looks great, much better than the one I made. Nice Job. I did not comment because I thought it was factory (taken from another saw).

 

[MustangMike]

Let's stop beating dead horses (speculating about Moody's problems) and talk saws.

So KG, what advantages do you find with those double dogs. They must make it easier when notching the tree, with the up and down angle, and I'm sure more bite when bucking. I'm thinking of adding them. Did you get therm though a Stihl dealer?

 

[mdavlee]

I've been talking engines to people for over 40 years and I guess I just presumed that when I used the word torque everyone understood what I was talking about. Of course every engine has both HP & TQ, but generally when you refer to engines built for TQ, you are referring to a broader power band at lower RPMs. When you build an engine for maximum HP, it usually has a narrow power band and peak HP at high RPMs. Forgive me for presuming that everyone understood the difference. It is the difference between a racing saw and a wood port (everyday working saw). What works for one does not work for the other.

And I know that saws operate a WOT, but maximum RPMS are generally around 14,000 and in the wood they usually drop to about 9,000. That is when torque becomes important.

You can find some very good references to the difference from some very experienced people in the current thread "Ported 70 cc Work Saws".

Every engine performs best when all of the parts work in conjunction with each other. In another thread a guy put the stock muffler back on a ported saw and found that it rapidly built up excessive heat. That is because a stock muffler is not adequate for the volume of gasses a ported saw can flow.

The reason muffler porting on a stock saw is usually effective is because the EPA forces the manufactures to back up the exhaust gases so they will continue to burn more completely. The example that Windthrown gave of Stihl developing the duel port muffler covers for the 046 and 066, which increased power but were banned by the EPA, is an excellent example of this.

If a saw did not need any back pressure at all to function properly, racing saws would not have any muffler on them and woods ported saws would have racing style mufflers on them. There are reasons, related to saw performance, why they don't. I think most saw builders adhere to these parameters even if they think I am wrong. Have you ever noticed that you have never seen any engine, 2 cycle, 4 cycle racing or otherwise that does not have some sort of exhaust manifold or header on it? A lot of research goes into matching the exhaust manifold to the intended use of the engine.

I usually stand by what I say because I do my research. I have learned a tremendous amount since I joined AS. That does not make me an expert, but I am no dummy either.

Also, for the record, I do understand what the 80% relates to, go calculate it for yourself. All of the information is posted on this thread.

Also, for the Record, I think KG's saw sounds stronger than Moody's, and it is not ported (this is admittedly just an informal observation).

Hope everyone has a good evening.

A good running 70-90cc saw will turn 10-11k in the wood. If it won't I'll work on something else on it to change that.

Timberwolf tested the muffler openings in 2006 or so. An 026 lost no cut time all the way to an absurd opening size. Idle mad throttle response did suffer. I usually make 2 outlets at 5/8"x3/4-7/8" on the larger saws.

Crap like this is why this site has gone so far down hill. It's drove away the more knowledgeable folks and left new people that haven't tried any of this stuff out for theirselves.

 

[KenJax Tree]

Let's stop beating dead horses.

Speaking of beating dead horses......ahhhh..... nevermind


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KG441c]

I did get them at dealer and they are the 441 set but u will have to notch them to fit with a dremel. Actually I just like the looks of them but they take alil more practice to use than a smaller set because they really bite and u can put the saw in a bind much quicker. Ill probably put my smaller dual set back on with my 18" Sugihara bar once Randy gets it to me. A 20+ bar and Id probably leave the magnums on

 

[richard t]

I'd move this to wtf

 

[KG441c]

Ive been on this thread to try a learn something about my 362c and increase its performance but Ive heard enough from people offering nothing more than disrespect and sarcaism . Im wondering why some people read through this and had nothing to say other than how stupid the thread was or offered smart remarks? Is this thread to learn about the 362c or for everyone to try and tear Mustang Mike apart?

 

[MustangMike]

I did get them at dealer and they are the 441 set but u will have to notch them to fit with a dremel. Actually I just like the looks of them but they take alil more practice to use than a smaller set because they really bite and u can put the saw in a bind much quicker. Ill probably put my smaller dual set back on with my 18" Sugihara bar once Randy gets it to me. A 20+ bar and Id probably leave the magnums on

I would likely go with the shorter ones, I guess my real question was the advantage of having them on both sides.

 

[KG441c]

I would likely go with the shorter ones, I guess my real question was the advantage of having them on both sides.

For me , it keeps the bar straighter in the cut

 

[MustangMike]

A good running 70-90cc saw will turn 10-11k in the wood. If it won't I'll work on something else on it to change that.

Timberwolf tested the muffler openings in 2006 or so. An 026 lost no cut time all the way to an absurd opening size. Idle mad throttle response did suffer. I usually make 2 outlets at 5/8"x3/4-7/8" on the larger saws.

Crap like this is why this site has gone so far down hill. It's drove away the more knowledgeable folks and left new people that haven't tried any of this stuff out for theirselves.

I agree with most of what you are saying here, and I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. But the port sizes that Moody originally posted, for a medium size saw, are larger than what you use on a large saw. Someone posted that Moody posted the wrong #s, so we will move on.

I did see some of Timberwolf's work and found it very informative, but I also noted the errors in his calculations, I do keep my eyes open. The gains were not quite as impressive as he stated. Also, talking about idle and throttle response dropping off kind of proves the point that you can go to far.

Also note that no two saws will act exactly the same, so what happens on one may not be what happens on the next (especially different models). An 026 does not have much in common with a 362 C-M, except the name.

Have a good evening.

 

[MustangMike]

For me , it keeps the bar straighter in the cut

I can also see where it may give you a big advantage when cutting notches. When cutting 90 degrees it will catch, when cutting 45 degrees (or so) it will only work one way.

 

[bryanr2]

Ive been on this thread to try a learn something about my 362c and increase its performance but Ive heard enough from people offering nothing more than disrespect and sarcaism . Im wondering why some people read through this and had nothing to say other than how stupid the thread was or offered smart remarks? Is this thread to learn about the 362c or for everyone to try and tear Mustang Mike apart?

It'd take a Mastermind Build Thread to learn something about the 362c. This thread has served an entirely different purpose..... just have to wade thru it to find it. Has nothing to do with Mike and his muffler speculations either, that's just "filler" keeping the thread going hoping Moody will come out from hiding.

 

[Mastermind]

Geezo Flip.....what a freakin train wreck.

 

[MustangMike]

At the risk of starting WWIII, I'm curious what the Master's opinion is.

 

[CapitaineHaddoc]

Mike, I think you're going too far in the defense of your saw.

I am a beginner in this area, but for me it's Brad who is right. For me, a muffler mod returns to "let the saw breathe" and the results are there. A beautiful sound, increased performance, and not too noisy. Often, the saw will also run cooler and have a better throttle response (maybe it's an impression, but a MM on a 562 give really good gains!)

Think about Moody's first posts, he was rather cautious when he began to port the saw, I'm sure he has not gone too far with the muffler.

I also think he does not have the same experience with this saw than with the 562, and that in time he will make 362 very close to the 562. Again, nobody said that the 362 was a bad saw, so do not try to contradict experienced builders like Brad, you'll only lose credibility.

 

[MustangMike]

Mike, I think you're going too far in the defense of your saw.

I am a beginner in this area, but for me it's Brad who is right. For me, a muffler mod returns to "let the saw breathe" and the results are there. A beautiful sound, increased performance, and not too noisy. Often, the saw will also run cooler and have a better throttle response (maybe it's an impression, but a MM on a 562 give really good gains!)

Think about Moody's first posts, he was rather cautious when he began to port the saw, I'm sure he has not gone too far with the muffler.

I also think he does not have the same experience with this saw than with the 562, and that in time he will make 362 very close to the 562. Again, nobody said that the 362 was a bad saw, so do not try to contradict experienced builders like Brad, you'll only lose credibility.

Thanks for your comments. I did not say that Muffler Modding would not help a saw, in fact I agree with all of your comments regarding that. I just believe that you can go too far with it if you make to ports too big. Some people seem to disagree. Also, it seems that some of the numbers Moody originally posted may have been in error, so there may not be any problem.

Hope you are doing well.

 

[ash man]

Captain, your assuming there was credibility to begin with.

 

[chadihman]

I haven't seen any variable outlet mufflers yet. I'm going to scratch some time up to make a test muffler for testing a MS 460 and a MS 461. I'm also gutting a 361 muffler so I'll test that to.

 

[XSKIER]

On saws probably not. But 2T sea doo and 4T yamaha sleds have variable exhaust volume systems. There must be something to it, but those two systems are designed for better part throttle performance.

Mustangmike, you're an old hot rodder. What do you think about selectable exhaust dumps. Do they make the car slower in loud mode?

 

[nmurph]

I haven't seen any variable outlet mufflers yet. I'm going to scratch some time up to make a test muffler for testing a MS 460 and a MS 461. I'm also gutting a 361 muffler so I'll test that to.

Please, no empirical data.