The "Not So Pro" discussion thread...of course Pros are welcome!

[northmanlogging]

Got to have some kind of weight. Ron

Throw with the weight, then untie weight if you need to drag it back over, then retie, and rethrow...

Many a time the weight has spun around a branch and then either I need to cut the throw line, climb the tree or try and break the branch its looped around, so if ya untie the weight before pulling up and over, it won't flip around any branches.

I really need to make a video explaining all this...

 

[rwoods]

NM, we’re talking different things here. I’m talking about a weight that is too high to reach and is already hung up. Usually comes loose with a tug or two, but watch out when it does. Maybe I should just get a shot bag to replace the shackle.

Ron

 

[Skeans]

Ron would something like this do you better then a rope? Personally I'm a jack guy I don't trust rope unless it's cable and even then I'm iffy known guys killed pulling timber over it's better to push them.

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[northmanlogging]

NM, we’re talking different things here. I’m talking about a weight that is too high to reach and is already hung up. Usually comes loose with a tug or two, but watch out when it does. Maybe I should just get a shot bag to replace the shackle.

Ron

No we're on the same line, I remove the weight before pulling it up, so it don't ever get hung up.

Other wise if its up high and hung its back to plan B = new line, or plan C = Climb it.

 

[hseII]

Two questions:

Unless I had the mechanical means to simply pull the tree over why would I induce forces on a top that I am already afraid may bust off just with the acceleration induced by the falling stem?

Can you make a tie like you showed in your earlier picture without climbing?

Ron

1. You can put a consistent pull, often as a back up to wedges, with a bull rope & a set of fours/ 4:1- 5:1 Mechanical advantage.

2. Absolutely you can; that’s why I’ve referenced it 3 times now. Use the APTA to shoot a throw line to the crotch or limb of your choice. I try to hook the throw line on the back side of the tree so I can get a rope set with 1 shot, but you can do it with 2 also. Then use your throw line to pull your Bull/Rigging line into position.

All my Rigging lines have at least 1 Sewn Eye so I can attach a shackle & Pull the slack out, thus having a rope around the tree & shackled back to itself.

 

[hseII]

Throw with the weight, then untie weight if you need to drag it back over, then retie, and rethrow...

Many a time the weight has spun around a branch and then either I need to cut the throw line, climb the tree or try and break the branch its looped around, so if ya untie the weight before pulling up and over, it won't flip around any branches.

I really need to make a video explaining all this...

Yes!!

I’ve lost 3 favorite throw bags because I thought I could “make it work.”

Now I do like you, if I’m repositioning, the bag comes off.

 

[hseII]

Ron would something like this do you better then a rope? Personally I'm a jack guy I don't trust rope unless it's cable and even then I'm iffy known guys killed pulling timber over it's better to push them.

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I’ve seen that & I wonder about them.

My Pull line has an MBS of 19,000lbs: I Haven’t gotten anywhere close to 1/4 of that.

I try to stay at 1/5 or less of the MBS.

I Encourage The Practice of Treat Rope Like All Rigging & Inspect Before Each Use.

 

[rwoods]

1. You can put a consistent pull, often as a back up to wedges, with a bull rope & a set of fours/ 4:1- 5:1 Mechanical advantage.

2. Absolutely you can; that’s why I’ve referenced it 3 times now. Use the APTA to shoot a throw line to the crotch or limb of your choice. I try to hook the throw line on the back side of the tree so I can get a rope set with 1 shot, but you can do it with 2 also. Then use your throw line to pull your Bull/Rigging line into position.

All my Rigging lines have at least 1 Sewn Eye so I can attach a shackle & Pull the slack out, thus having a rope around the tree & shackled back to itself.

It appears I am miscommunicating.

Question #1 - I was asking why would I want to put a load on a iffy top and then work under it. I’m not talking about sound trees.

Question 2 - I was asking how without climbing you got a) three and 1/2 wraps around the stem and b) no looping over a limb. None of the videos show a tie or whatever you want to call your connection of the pull line to the tree. I was not questioning whether the guns could shoot a line that high. I’ve seen similar videos before as well as a few potato guns in action.

Ron

 

[hseII]

It appears I am miscommunicating.

Question #1 - I was asking why would I want to put a load on a iffy top and then work under it. I’m not talking about sound trees.

Question 2 - I was asking how without climbing you got a) three and 1/2 wraps around the stem and b) no looping over a limb. None of the videos show a tie or whatever you want to call your connection of the pull line to the tree. I was not questioning whether the guns could shoot a line that high. I’ve seen similar videos before as well as a few potato guns in action.

Ron

1. If it’s that rotten, pull it over.

2. I’m sometimes a little overzealous with my wraps when afforded the opportunity of my hooks: that’s one of my things.

Had I not broken the cheap throw line to begin with,( I’ve since rectified that), the pull rope would have been resting on the 1st limb of the tree, some 8 feet above my wrapping.

 

[rwoods]

Ron would something like this do you better then a rope? Personally I'm a jack guy I don't trust rope unless it's cable and even then I'm iffy known guys killed pulling timber over it's better to push them.

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I assume this is in reference to my screw up with the locust a week ago and not yesterday’s falling of dead oaks. Just the looks of a jack stick scares me given not only is it on the same side of the tree as the cutter but it is relying on the ground for support. Also looks like it could easily twist. Make have worked fine IDK. A six thousand pound 4wd with a much higher pull point wasn’t enough. Just guessing that the truck had at least a 2000# pull with 4 times or more leverage than that particular jack stick (or whatever you call it).

Usually I don’t need anything more than gravity and a few wedges as where the tree lands isn’t much of a concern in most situations that I find myself. I used a rope mainly as a precaution around things I don’t want to accidentally hit. I have intentionally pulled (or tried to pull) probably less than a half of dozen trees. The last time before the locust was probably 5 years ago. I say most here hand fall more trees some day during the year than I do the whole year.

Ron

 

[rwoods]

1. If it’s that rotten, pull it over.

2. I’m sometimes a little overzealous with my wraps when afforded the opportunity of my hooks: that’s one of my things.

Had I not broken the cheap throw line to begin with,( I’ve since rectified that), the pull rope would have been resting on the 1st limb of the tree, some 8 feet above my wrapping.

I don’t know how rotten it is at the top. I am just being cautious. My falling is voluntary. And in part to keep other volunteers safe.

I liked your wraps, but don’t know how you can pull that up the stem or otherwise do it from the ground.

Ron

 

[hseII]

I don’t know how rotten it is at the top. I am just being cautious. My falling is voluntary. And in part to keep other volunteers safe.

I liked your wraps, but don’t know how you can pull that up the stem or otherwise do it from the ground.

Ron

You can normally tension a line & if the Bark isn’t falling off, unless it’s an Ash, you’re normally good.

Wraps aren’t necessary if you hang a limb, which is what I normally do. That was overkill.

 

[rwoods]

Most of what I cut yesterday had three inches or so of bark and dust with poison ivy holding the bark on (I ingested quite a bit of both and the Bugzeyes were almost useless). On some you couln’t see where you cut as it would fill up with dust and just blend in. However, at the cut all but one were hard as a rock from the dust ring to the center. Super firewood. Didn’t inspect the tops after falling so I don’t know their condition. Real shame that they didn’t get cut sooner for timber.

Ron

 

[Skeans]

I assume this is in reference to my screw up with the locust a week ago and not yesterday’s falling of dead oaks. Just the looks of a jack stick scares me given not only is it on the same side of the tree as the cutter but it is relying on the ground for support. Also looks like it could easily twist. Make have worked fine IDK. A six thousand pound 4wd with a much higher pull point wasn’t enough. Just guessing that the truck had at least a 2000# pull with 4 times or more leverage than that particular jack stick (or whatever you call it).

Usually I don’t need anything more than gravity and a few wedges as where the tree lands isn’t much of a concern in most situations that I find myself. I used a rope mainly as a precaution around things I don’t want to accidentally hit. I have intentionally pulled (or tried to pull) probably less than a half of dozen trees. The last time before the locust was probably 5 years ago. I say most here hand fall more trees some day during the year than I do the whole year.

Ron

It scares me as well but even on dead wood we'll jack them sometimes to keep from beating wedges. Personally I don't fall much anymore since we're thinning 25 year old stands all the time.

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[Skeans]

Most of what I cut yesterday had three inches or so of bark and dust with poison ivy holding the bark on (I ingested quite a bit of both and the Bugzeyes were almost useless). On some you couln’t see where you cut as it would fill up with dust and just blend in. However, at the cut all but one were hard as a rock from the dust ring to the center. Super firewood. Didn’t inspect the tops after falling so I don’t know their condition. Real shame that they didn’t get cut sooner for timber.

Ron

Those bug eyes suck for fines or when it's raining I gave up on them and went back to safety glasses with a slight tint that look like a sun glass.

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[rwoods]

You are using a hydraulic tree jack you cut out a shelf for as opposed to the stick, don’t you. Ron

 

[rwoods]

Until yesterday I swore by the Bugzeyes - primarily due to heat and sweat. If I cut this stuff regularly I would also wear a paper or cloth filter mask. Ron

 

[Skeans]

You are using a hydraulic tree jack you cut out a shelf for as opposed to the stick, don’t you. Ron

I do, but our timber is larger where we can fit a jack or jacks into. The stick is scary that's for sure but it was made for smaller shorter timber then what we have out here. I think the smallest I've fit the 45 ton jack with plates in is 28", when I had a back pack set of Silvey big jacks I think the smallest I could fit a single ram was 26" and that was pushing the limits.

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[fool skip]

I do, but our timber is larger where we can fit a jack or jacks into. The stick is scary that's for sure but it was made for smaller shorter timber then what we have out here. I think the smallest I've fit the 45 ton jack with plates in is 28", when I had a back pack set of Silvey big jacks I think the smallest I could fit a single ram was 26" and that was pushing the limits.

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I have a lot of stories about those big Silvey Tree Savers. I lived a short distance from their factory/shop. I always got to them in for repairs for our company [expensive]. One time I was packing a set through a big brush patch and fell over backwards between two windfalls. Both the jacks and the ram were in the backpack. I was pinned like a flipped over turtle. I finally hollered up my a partner. He came over and laughed till he almost cried. It cost me a half-rack of Bud to get out of that one. After that, I always carried 1 ram in each hand and the pump in the backpack. We jacked a lot [big timber, broken ground].

 

[Skeans]

I have a lot of stories about those big Silvey Tree Savers. I lived a short distance from their factory/shop. I always got to them in for repairs for our company [expensive]. One time I was packing a set through a big brush patch and fell over backwards between two windfalls. Both the jacks and the ram were in the backpack. I was pinned like a flipped over turtle. I finally hollered up my a partner. He came over and laughed till he almost cried. It cost me a half-rack of Bud to get out of that one. After that, I always carried 1 ram in each hand and the pump in the backpack. We jacked a lot [big timber, broken ground].

I made it down to Jack's shop before he retired to fix my pro sharp at no charge they were great guys down there and will be missed in the industry. The jacks always sucked to carry it seemed like they were need down in some nasty hole with a long bar or through a nasty patch of vine maples that'd hang you up like turtle going no where.

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