The Savage the Pig and the Dolbeer

[lfnh]

I just found another pic of the working Dolbeer donkey engine.

That photo was taken by me at Sanborn Park in Saratoga. I forget the year but I think it was 2009. My son and I were helping with the Lucas Mill demo and skidding out a D-fir on blacktop! ( Don't ever skid a fir with a cable skidder on blacktop, esp with an operator who doesn't know how to lift the log.)The donkey is owned by Big Creek Lumber Co. They also show it sometimes at the Santa Cruz County Fair in September.

Northern California Society of American Foresters

Home | Big Creek Lumber

How's this for technique? Broken chokers anyone?

Like this set of photographs you posted. Good contrast between early and modern skidding.
Just need to add a Best (CAT) crawler with the arch in between the two. Thanks for digging out the color photographs.

 

[paccity]

View attachment 193538View attachment 193539 like these?

 

[2dogs]

A newer rubber tire arch rusting away near here in Big Basin SP. I would guess home made.

 

[lfnh]

paccity, 2dogs - yes. great pics there. Thank you.

 

[lfnh]

View attachment 193538View attachment 193539 like these?

 

[paccity]

heres the wheeled arch we hooked up to the old 8 to run in the parade. that olrusty got more ooos than the pretty ones,.View attachment 193543

 

[lfnh]

heres the wheeled arch we hooked up to the old 8 to run in the parade. that olrusty got more ooos than the pretty ones,.View attachment 193543

makes the car on the left look like a tonka toy, LoL.
Thanks paccity - I like the old machines.

 

[lfnh]

Stumbled across something on logging back a long time ago that maybe interesting.

from achival footage
A film on logging operations in 1920's with commentary by people who ran the equipment back then -Steam Donkeys, Shays

Steam Whistles, Sawdust, and Salt Air
(Operations of the Pacific Spruce Corporation)
Authors: Robert E Floweree; Georgia-Pacific Corporation.; Siuslaw National Forest
Northwest Interpretive Association 1991

Local library might be able to get an Interlibrary loan of the VHS or DVD
or this non-profit link.

 

[alleyoop]

heres the wheeled arch we hooked up to the old 8 to run in the parade. that olrusty got more ooos than the pretty ones,.View attachment 193543

Thats a good shot ,tell them about the guy that tryed to get beteen the cat and arch.:msp_sleep:

 

[lfnh]

Transition from Steam to Diesel and Electric

Sometime in the early 1920's, diesel engine Donkeys started production. Washington Iron Works was one manufacturer. It seems this transition was accelerated during World War Two because of a shortage of help and increase demand for war supplies. However, it appears Steam Donkeys continued in use into the 1950's. Can't seem to find any records that show Steam Donkeys were in use in the 1960's.

Another question concerns the Steam Whistle used for signaling the Donkey Puncher.

What was used for a Whistle on the Diesel Engine Donkeys or the Electric Motor driven Donkeys ?

Was the Whistle line still used or was it replaced by something else and when did this occur ?

Been hard to find any records or descriptions about this change.

Some photographs of Diesel Powered Donkeys and Yarders.
Credits as sourced. Mostly Kinsey from Washingtion State University - Special Collections

Diesel donkey engine, Clemons Logging Company, ca. 1926

Diesel Yarder (Willamette Iron Works ?) Clemons Logging 1930

Six cylinder diesel Yarder Schafer Brothers

Donkey engine and crew, Camp 3, Simpson Logging Company, near Shelton, ca. 1935

1942 Diesel Engine Powered Donkey

Diesel Donkey 1940's

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

There is a logging museum south of me that has a lot of old school logging equipment. It is a open air state park musuem. The name of it is Collier State Park. Found a youtube video some did, ‪Collier Logging Museum May 16 2009‬‏ - YouTube

 

[dave k]

A good few diesel engines have a small compressor fitted on the rear of the alternator to create air/vacum for brake systems so I would think a small unit would have been fitted to power the whistle ?

 

[Humptulips]

Sometime in the early 1920's, diesel engine Donkeys started production. Washington Iron Works was one manufacturer. It seems this transition was accelerated during World War Two because of a shortage of help and increase demand for war supplies. However, it appears Steam Donkeys continued in use into the 1950's. Can't seem to find any records that show Steam Donkeys were in use in the 1960's.

Another question concerns the Steam Whistle used for signaling the Donkey Puncher.

What was used for a Whistle on the Diesel Engine Donkeys or the Electric Motor driven Donkeys ?

Was the Whistle line still used or was it replaced by something else and when did this occur ?

Been hard to find any records or descriptions about this change.

Some photographs of Diesel Powered Donkeys and Yarders.
Credits as sourced. Mostly Kinsey from Washingtion State University - Special Collections

Diesel donkey engine, Clemons Logging Company, ca. 1926

Diesel Yarder (Willamette Iron Works ?) Clemons Logging 1930

Six cylinder diesel Yarder Schafer Brothers

Donkey engine and crew, Camp 3, Simpson Logging Company, near Shelton, ca. 1935

1942 Diesel Engine Powered Donkey

Diesel Donkey 1940's

Talked to my Dad about the whistles. (He started working in the woods in 1936 as whistle punk on a Tyler skyline machine for Duffy Bros Logging Co.) He said it took a few years to change over to electric but a lot of the steam yarders used a jerk line at that time. The jerk line was braided wire similar to a clothes line. It worked simply by the punk pulling the wire to make the whistle blow. You had to pull it up tight and tie it so it would blow with a short jerk. It took a knack to get it tuned so it would blow crisp whistles. Then there was the problem of the yarder being on one side of the railroad track and the logging being on the other. One had to tunnel under the track or go over high enough so the loads wouldn't hit the wire. They had small blocks to change directions. They started putting generators on some of the steam machines when gas and diesel yarders started to make there apperance. I guess they found out how good the electric whistles worked. All the gas and diesel yarders he worked on had air for the whistle. It was not uncommon for the early diesel yarders to have a marine diesel and they started with air so they had to have air anyway.
The first radio whistles my Dad said he used were for a company owned by Bert Cole, the WA State Lands Commisioner at the time. Long story there about conflict of interest but that's a bit off topic. Anyway this was before transistors in the early 50s and they used flashlight batteries, 24 a day and they were very unreliable. Not sure when Talkie Tooters came out but I think in the early 60s.

On another note I'll draw your attention to that last picture, Schafer Bros donkey in 1942. It appears to be an old steam ground logging donkey converted to diesel. How can you tell? look at the fairlead on the head block. They have the haulback running through it and then up to the spar tree. The mainline goes straight from the drum up to the spar tree. This indicates it had offset drums. Only ground logging yarders and loading donkeys were built with offset drums. My Dad said Schafers done this a lot. They had an old bone yard of steam donkeys and would take a set of drums and convert to diesel, often times with poor results.
Really small sled too. I'm surprised they could keep it on the ground.
Notice the moving block laying on the ground.
I'm sure my Dad would recongnize some of the guys in the picture if the faces were more distinct.
I think camp 10 was on Garrad Cr South of Oakville where my Dad grew up. He would have been in the navy at that time.

 

[lfnh]

Thanks Humptulips. Never thought about the marine diesel air compressor for the starter.
dave.k in previous post was right on track with air compressor add-on for straight gas/diesel engines. Interesting.

So the whistle transition was from steam, then electric on the early gas/diesel units (1930's), backfitting electric to the steam units in that same time period, and finally to air on the gas/diesel units in 1940's? Correct any of this if it is wrong.

On the first radio whistle your dad used, assume is was vacuum tube design (or not ?) - what size were the batteries in the hand unit and what was the reliable range ? How big was it ?
Oh, one other thing. Please ask your dad if he remembers the year he first used the radio whistle.

Lotta questions...
Thank you.

 

[Humptulips]

Thanks Humptulips. Never thought about the marine diesel air compressor for the starter.
dave.k in previous post was right on track with air compressor add-on for straight gas/diesel engines. Interesting.

So the whistle transition was from steam, then electric on the early gas/diesel units (1930's), backfitting electric to the steam units in that same time period, and finally to air on the gas/diesel units in 1940's? Correct any of this if it is wrong.

On the first radio whistle your dad used, assume is was vacuum tube design (or not ?) - what size were the batteries in the hand unit and what was the reliable range ? How big was it ?
Oh, one other thing. Please ask your dad if he remembers the year he first used the radio whistle.

Lotta questions...
Thank you.

Remember this conversion didn't happen all at once. Gas and diesel donkeys may have made there appearence in the 30s and even before that but steam was still being used in the late 40s and even into the early 50s by a few. So some companies forged ahead with improvements others took there time with change.

He said that first radio whistle had tubes, used regular d size flashlight batteries. I misunderstood him the first time he told me so what I said was wrong about the number used. it used 8 batteries every 2 hours. It was mounted on a back pack much like the military radios from WWII. Range he is not sure. He did say they were roundly cussed and dangerous because you never knew when they would quit working which was often.

I'm not sure if when he first used a Talkie Tooter would be a good estimate of their time of entry into the market. He was climber at Rayoniers Camp 14 and later Crane Cr Camp from 1960 till 1968 so he really wasn't in position to use them. He's not sure when he saw others use them.

 

[lfnh]

On the conversations to gas and diesel engines, there have been a few vague references to conversions of wood fired donkey boilers to oil fired boilers around this same time. One (and only) oil fired description was for cold starting a locomotive boiler using air pressure to spray the fuel (kerosene) into the boiler for pre-heating the boiler and bunker oil. Nothing specific about donkey boilers and if they operated the same way. I suppose a hit-an-miss engine with a compressor for air pressure could have been used, since hit-an-miss engines with water pumps were used to supply donkeys with boiler water (Timberman Vol 19 ). Just not sure if the oil fired steam donkeys got into the mainstream or not before or during the transition to gas/diesel.

Couple of photographs of a Washington Yarder with air controls and whistle control.
Credits: First and second.

Came across a photograph claiming the last pair of steam donkeys in active use on the West Coast. The year was 1957 on Ginger Creek operation of Oregon-American Corp. Can't tell for certain if they are wood fired or oil fired. Credit source.

 

[lfnh]

Found a movie made by Angus Allison from original film taken of AP Allison operations up in British Columbia back in the 1930's on Queen Charlotte Islands. Thought it might be interesting since it covers alot in this thread according to his written commentary.
Couldn't get much past the felling and bucking part because of my slow dialup, so not sure how it turns out. Hope its good..
Credits:
Bella Coola Valley Museum
Hagensborg, BC

First site with written commentary, but the movie didn't work.

Second site of working movie.

 

[Humptulips]

On the conversations to gas and diesel engines, there have been a few vague references to conversions of wood fired donkey boilers to oil fired boilers around this same time. One (and only) oil fired description was for cold starting a locomotive boiler using air pressure to spray the fuel (kerosene) into the boiler for pre-heating the boiler and bunker oil. Nothing specific about donkey boilers and if they operated the same way. I suppose a hit-an-miss engine with a compressor for air pressure could have been used, since hit-an-miss engines with water pumps were used to supply donkeys with boiler water (Timberman Vol 19 ). Just not sure if the oil fired steam donkeys got into the mainstream or not before or during the transition to gas/diesel.

Couple of photographs of a Washington Yarder with air controls and whistle control.
Credits: First and second.

Came across a photograph claiming the last pair of steam donkeys in active use on the West Coast. The year was 1957 on Ginger Creek operation of Oregon-American Corp. Can't tell for certain if they are wood fired or oil fired. Credit source.

On the change over from wood to steam. Here's what my Dad said, By the thirties there were very few wood burners. They were only used at cold decks for the most part by then. Head trees had access to oil by the railroad. Some companies like Bordeaux piped oil out to there yarders in the brush others like NorthWest shipped big oil tanks back on the skyline. Cold deck donkeys had no easy access to oil so they burned wood. These were the first donkeys to get converted to gas or diesel. He said the oil burners had a small steam boiler that burned kerosene. They would fire it up and it would build steam fairly quick enough to work the injectors on the donkey and get it started. They also needed steam to preheat the oil so it could be pumped. He said Bordeaux had a two donkey slackline they would rig up a thousand or 1400 feet off the track and they laid four inch pipe to it to pump oil. It would not run unless warm. He said many a cold morning they would build fires under the pipeline to try and get it to run.
He also said when it came time to move it a 20 foot section of 4 inch pie filled with cold crude oil is heavy!

That last picture I think it is a safe bet it was burning oil. No sign of a wood yard.

 

[wowzers]

Here is a steam donkey in a big drainage around here. I got a picture of and old jammer I'll try to load up too.

Forest Service - Steam donkey in the Marble Creek area

 

[wowzers]

View attachment 194328

Here the jammer, didn't quite get the boom in.