The techs. point of view

[Wood Hick]

Been wanting to ask this for quite some time, and looking for the repair technicians to answer. Several times recently I have been in saw dealerships when someone brings in an "old" saw. After the usual questions, most of the time, the tech. will try to discourage them from making the repairs. Almost always, they will advise that you will have as much in the repair as the cost of a new saw. ( which they are correct )
What seems odd to me is, are they not in the business of small engine repair?
Why would they not want to fix or at least diagnose the saw and make some money?
The dealer I trust has an 084 of mine now, and he is excited about doing the engine work for me to make it new again. However, I know if I had taken it to some of his competition, they would not have wanted to fool with it.
I would like to hear your opinions.

 

[Fish]

The other thing the guy usually says is' "I don't want to put a lot of money in it."
With many older saws, even finding the parts can be a problem, which
in itself can take a lot of time and phone calls. Also, if it is an old saw,
it usually has a lot of other problems, and to fix them all, would cost more
than a new saw. Also, if you "fix" it, and something else breaks down,
we hear, "Well, you just worked on it...." and "I just put a lot of money in it
already...", etc.
I had a customer pissed off at me a few weeks ago, he brought an
old Stihl trimmer that looked real rough. He wanted me to fix the throttle/
kill switch, as a Stihl dealer had worked on it before, and they put on a
different kill/throttle than was on it originally, and he wanted it "right".
The trimmer looked like it had been in a creekbed for 10 years, so the
first thing I did was pull the muffler and looked at the burnt up piston.
So I left it as it was to show him. He was pissed because I didn't fix the
throttle/kill like he wanted. If I had done that, and it still didn't run, he would
blame me for that, not paid for the work I had done, parts, etc...

Just letting you know what we deal with, not all of us are evil............

Well, maybe just a little evil....

 

[manual]

most tech would want you to trade in that 'OLD" saw for a new one then turn around and E-bay it.

 

[Lakeside53]

We fix lot of 25-30 year old Stihl saws, but generally NOT old (15) trimmers.. If it's fixable (parts available), I tell the guys the price... then they make their own decision. If they want to trade it on a new saw, we'll buy it for parts (or a winter rebuild project).

SOMETIMES (rarely) for a good customer I'll take one home to work on (not shop rate), often I'll tell them to sell it on craigslist...

For the endless parade of old Mcullochs, Homelites and... we refer them to a few other old shops around...

 

[Crofter]

most tech would want you to trade in that 'OLD" saw for a new one then turn around and E-bay it.

Manual, that is a wide brush you are tarring techs with! I gotta agree with Fish here. When you start resurrecting old iron you often come across the ghosts of old repairs and made fit/ willfit parts, buggered threads, broken studs, rough pitted sealing surfaces and on and on. Not always, mind you but the odds are heavy in that direction. You are more likely to get stuck with not picked up items and the old item is harder to unload. I spent my teens and twentys in auto wrecking and general repair and found that after the glow of learning is over you better learn to at least try to sort out the dreamers and triflers or you will burn out on them. Sometimes you can find someone with no overhead that likes the challenge of reviving a basket case and that is OK. The older the item the more expensive the repair should be but you can bet on getting the opposite attitude.

 

[Al Smith]

As one who most likely has as much old iron and cast aluminum as anybody on the net,I will be the first to say you can't save them all.

I've repaired old saws for people that were on their last legs.Recently I replaced an oil pump on a Mac pm 610 that had a cooked piston from running with a clogged screen.The cost,including my labor was less than 30 bucks. I told the guy to just runn'er til she blows as the price of repairs would exceed the value of the saw.

Try as you might you just can't make a silk purse from a sows ear.

 

[16:1mix]

I will be the first to say you can't save them all.
Try as you might you just can't make a silk purse from a sows ear.

Sage advice!

 

[manual]

Manual, that is a wide brush you are tarring techs with! I gotta agree with Fish here. When you start resurrecting old iron you often come across the ghosts of old repairs and made fit/ willfit parts, buggered threads, broken studs, rough pitted sealing surfaces and on and on. Not always, mind you but the odds are heavy in that direction. You are more likely to get stuck with not picked up items and the old item is harder to unload. I spent my teens and twentys in auto wrecking and general repair and found that after the glow of learning is over you better learn to at least try to sort out the dreamers and triflers or you will burn out on them. Sometimes you can find someone with no overhead that likes the challenge of reviving a basket case and that is OK. The older the item the more expensive the repair should be but you can bet on getting the opposite attitude.

Oh I know what You mean. I still find myself saying "I can Fix it".
So as a rule of thumb I try not to get involved with any thing that does not run or the body is to far gone.

 

[Lakeside53]

So as a rule of thumb I try not to get involved with any thing that does not run or the body is to far gone.

We are talikng about saws, aren't we? :monkey:

 

[WRW]

We are talikng about saws, aren't we? :monkey:

I think he is talking about manual stimulation.

 

[Lakeside53]

or relationships...:jester:

 

[rreidnauer]

Oh I know what You mean. I still find myself saying "I can Fix it".

This is where me an manual are on the same page. All I need is parts. I can fix it.

But I know the challenge of getting those parts sometimes. About ten years ago, I acquired a Starcraft boat with an 85 hp Chrysler outboard from the 60's on it for $1000. The motor head was in three cardboard boxs, lying on the seats. It had been overheated when the water pump failed. I can fix it.

I went to the local marine supply to see if they could find me a repair manual. I got lucky, and found and bought two different ones. (which really helped out later on) Now equipped with a manual, I needed to see about parts. This turned out to be the hardest part of the whole job. I never squacked about price, I didn't ask for them to work on it. I only asked for them to pull up the IPL and order the parts I point at. I can fix it.

It was like pulling teeth and twisting arms, but I was able to get everything I needed after quite a few trips back and forth. I did have to take the block to a machine shop to true the head mating surface and bore the cylinders. That was beyond my abilities. In the end, I think I put in an additional $1000 when all was said and done. See, told ya I can fix it!

Like with anything older, you got to make that decision between nolstalgic value and practical value. Even my 028 has more into it than I bought it for. That's just reality. Look at what auto restorations can set you back. I got a friend who's got untold thousands into a Bel Aire that still isn't done. Far more spent than that of a new car. (he won't admit exactly how much though)

But I can see how these old saws can get a tech in bad with customers, in ways described above. I'm still shocked that people don't try and do the work themselves. Especially if all your doing is parts swapping. It's not black magic or rocket science. (well, maybe the carbs are ) All I need is parts. I can fix it.

 

[belgian]

Manual, that is a wide brush you are tarring techs with! I gotta agree with Fish here. When you start resurrecting old iron you often come across the ghosts of old repairs and made fit/ willfit parts, buggered threads, broken studs, rough pitted sealing surfaces and on and on. Not always, mind you but the odds are heavy in that direction. You are more likely to get stuck with not picked up items and the old item is harder to unload. I spent my teens and twentys in auto wrecking and general repair and found that after the glow of learning is over you better learn to at least try to sort out the dreamers and triflers or you will burn out on them. Sometimes you can find someone with no overhead that likes the challenge of reviving a basket case and that is OK. The older the item the more expensive the repair should be but you can bet on getting the opposite attitude.

Have to agree with Frank and Fish here. I tinker a lot on older saws (collector saws) and often discover one problem after the other trying to fix them. If I had to count my hours as a shop tech, it would be a big money loosing operation in most any case. I just spent a whole day on trying to revive a 30 year old, 30 $ Solo 644 with parts from a 640 parts saw and it still needs a lot of work before it actually will run. And I have numerous other saws like that. Can imagine a dealer will gladly keep his hands of those deals ...

 

[Crofter]

I think he is talking about manual stimulation.

Manual, dont pay any attentinonto WRW, he is just jerking you around!

 

[THALL10326]

most tech would want you to trade in that 'OLD" saw for a new one then turn around and E-bay it.

Not so at all, I have a shed full to prove it and you too as my wittness, shame on you Manual!!!

Fact is most times all I do is sit the customer down in front of the computer and show them exactly what the new piston/cylinder or whatever is going to cost for his fried or broken down old saw and that usually leads them to buy a new saw. Not many are gonna pay 200.00 plus for parts on used saws. Goes to prove as well what I always say, not everyone are saw buffs. To the average customer a saw is a tool and nothing more. Makes sense to me they say to hell with it and get a new one. Best part is when they start walking out the door with their new saw and I have to stop them and say hey , what about your old saw sitting here, 9 times out of ten they say keep it and away they go. They don't want a saw that won't run and one they aren't ever gonna fix sitting in the garage taking up space and collecting dust. Thanks to that I've picked up 1-170, 1-180, 2-024's, 1-028, 1-Husky 55, 1-044, 1-Husky 262, 1-066, 1-029, 1-290, 2-009's. Of that list I gave away the170,180,028,066,55,and the 262. The rest I rebuilt and put in the shed.

So as you can see this tech does not sellem at all, in fact hows that 262 running Manual, hmmmmmmmm. You of all people should be glad how some techs don't waste their time or the customer's money fixing up old saws, aint that right,hahaha

 

[Al Smith]

It's not a fact of weather some thing is repairable or not ,about any thing is.The question is if the costs justify the end results.

A couple of cases in point.I bought a '46 John Deere A in several barrels full of parts for $125.It had the bottom broken off of one cylinder from trying to start it with a stuck piston by pulling,that bent a rod.I welded the cylinder,replaced the rod,rebuilt the engine.Not much money but literally weeks of work.

Number 2 was a 125 Mac that I made an iron liner for .Again not much money but hours and hours of work.These were restoration projects for my own use.If however they had been jobs for a paying customer ,no way could you justify the labor costs involved.

 

[Lakeside53]

I like to think we're fixing the last one on the planet.. and it will save mankind...

I put hours to 10's of hours into some parts... that I can buy new for $60, but screw it.. anyone can buy stuff, but few can really fix them. Now I have the skills to fix just about anything...

 

[kevinj]

Try as you might you just can't make a silk purse from a sows ear.

There is one guy on AS who can.
Enuf said.

:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[manual]

Not so at all, I have a shed full to prove it and you too as my wittness, shame on you Manual!!!

Fact is most times all I do is sit the customer down in front of the computer and show them exactly what the new piston/cylinder or whatever is going to cost for his fried or broken down old saw and that usually leads them to buy a new saw. Not many are gonna pay 200.00 plus for parts on used saws. Goes to prove as well what I always say, not everyone are saw buffs. To the average customer a saw is a tool and nothing more. Makes sense to me they say to hell with it and get a new one. Best part is when they start walking out the door with their new saw and I have to stop them and say hey , what about your old saw sitting here, 9 times out of ten they say keep it and away they go. They don't want a saw that won't run and one they aren't ever gonna fix sitting in the garage taking up space and collecting dust. Thanks to that I've picked up 1-170, 1-180, 2-024's, 1-028, 1-Husky 55, 1-044, 1-Husky 262, 1-066, 1-029, 1-290, 2-009's. Of that list I gave away the170,180,028,066,55,and the 262. The rest I rebuilt and put in the shed.

So as you can see this tech does not sellem at all, in fact hows that 262 running Manual, hmmmmmmmm. You of all people should be glad how some techs don't waste their time or the customer's money fixing up old saws, aint that right,hahaha

Hey Crofter, Thats the Manual Stimulation I like to see LOL
I mean Thall Rose to the occasion.

Seriously Now, I was not picking on Saw dealerships. Thal is on the right track
He could have taken those saws and E-bayed them on the spot. I for one am glad he did not and others are too. Except Just Mow..
I have taken junk and made it shine too.
My mower is a John Deere When I got it the engine was blown the deck bearings were froze even the hood was shattered.
I said I can fix it. This time I did. I was so annal about I even bought the right bolts that had J.D. stamped on them. The J.D. dealer got tire of me buying bolts cause he had to buy a box at a time and all I wanted was a few.
Told me to go to a hardware store next time. I told him as soon as the hard ware Store sells J.D. Bolts. I did the same thing to a cj5. it's just the way I am.
I opened a Body Shop down state years ago. Found I was putting to much time in peoples cars, Why Because I don't like doing half ass work.

As Al Smith put it "If however they had been jobs for a paying customer ,no way could you justify the labor costs involved".

So Repairing chainsaws sometimes is not cost-efficient.
Unless it's a hobby.

 

[Al Smith]

. This time I did. I was so annal about I even bought the right bolts that had J.D. stamped on them.

Funny this should be mentioned.I worked with an old tool maker that won three years in a row the best model A Ford at Hershey Pa.He figured out how to anodize the body bolts so they looked like the originals.I've made bolts myself but I'm not quite that anal about things.

Repairs are one thing,restoration is another.