The theory and physics of muffler mods, and their practical effects

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I have another question related to this topic of modding a muffler, does placement of the exhaust outlet affect the performance of the saw? I noticed most factory muffs and modded muffs outlets are either on the top or side, is this mostly to do with the limted space available on a muffler?
 
A Plymouth never had a posi-trac. Chrysler Corp cars had Sure-Grip third members. Posi-trac is a GM thing.


.

Yup... funny how so many people think that when both wheels spin in a rearend that it has a "posi" diff in it. Regardless of brand. :laugh:

To dig even deeper and derail this choo-choo some more...

AMC = Twin Grip

FoMoCo = Traction-Loc

Mopar = Sure Grip

Then we get to GM... Leave it to GM to make it confusing for all brands under their mark... :laugh:

Chevrolet = Positraction

Cadillac & Olds = Anti Spin

Buick = Positive Traction

Pontiac = Saf-T-Track

:dizzy:

Gary
 
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Yup... funny how so many people think that when both wheel spin in a rearend that it has a "posi" diff in it. Regardless of brand. :laugh:

To dig even deeer and derail this choo-choo some more...

AMC = Twin Grip

FoMoCo = Traction-Loc

Mopar = Sure Grip

Then we get to GM... Leave it to GM to make it confusing for all brands under their mark... :laugh:

Chevrolet = Positraction

Cadillac & Olds = Anti Spin

Buick = Positive Traction

Pontiac Saf-T-rack

:dizzy:

Gary
Lets knock it off the tracks-detroit locker
ok I'll just shut up
 
How come the old repair manuals called them all "limited slip differentials"?

GPeter: thanks for posting that link. Jennings' book is kind of an original classic.
 
How come the old repair manuals called them all "limited slip differentials"?

GPeter: thanks for posting that link. Jennings' book is kind of an original classic.


Limited slip differential is the generic name for a third member that attempts to balance the traction loads between the two axles. Sure-Grip etc., are the trade names applied to the systems.
 
because that's what they are...but everybody wanted a fancy pants trade name for 'em. there you go.

now back to saws.

a muff mod by itself is not going to affect the life of an engine provided proper fuel/air flow and heat dissipation are provided.

power comes from fuel...once the outbound restrictions are eliminated.
 
It's a dumb quote from a dumber movie that was meant to be a joke. Looks like it flew over a few people's heads.
 
It has been demonstrated (well enough to my satisfaction anyway) on this site that everything else being equal a well done muffler mod will reduce the running temp of a saw. My guess reduced wear due to temp decreaes will be offset to some extent by the additional power developed and hence greater forces that a freer breathing engine will experience. Whether the former is sufficient to counteract the latter is difficult to say with some serious longevity testing.
 
A Plymouth never had a posi-trac. Chrysler Corp cars had Sure-Grip third members. Posi-trac is a GM thing.


.

Troublemaker!

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Muff-mods work cause ''It just dose" !
 
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air/fuel mix?

as a saw breathes better, there must be some effect that it can get more air through the carb, without picking up extra fuel, therefore you would need to richen it up. Carb design would be based on the overall design of the particular saw. otherwise one carb could serve ALL saws.

I can't think of why that would happen.

also, power can only be created with fuel burn. therefore, for any mod to work better, it must allow more fuel to be burned!

so porting the transfer a certain way allows more mix to stay in the cyl. It comes in under pressure, therefore there is more mass. an open exhaust allows more to escape prior to sealing up the chamber, so port design is important. a poorly "transfer ported" 361 may allow more mix to escape prior to compression than an excellently designed porting job on a 390.

so a basic muff mod, allows more mix to enter the chamber, by not restricting exhaust/back pressure. more mix = more power as long is the mix stays in the cylinder during compression (my reference to proper porting, I assume that is why the consensus is to open the rear face of the transfer port to help mix flow to the back of the cyl, so it won't exhaust on the upstroke)

the carb designs utilize both the low and high jets to add fuel. more air flow throws out of wack the balance of L/H fuel into the flow, and therefore enrichment is needed. You increase the air, but that extra flow does not increase the fuel by itself due to carb design... so needs help.

oh...

and in the spirit of complete disclosure, I know nothing about this. I just pulled all the above out of my arse...

if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance... Baffle 'em with Bull$%^T
 
That's my chainsaw... anyone touches it, I'll Kill 'em!

It didn't fly over anyone's heads... it just went straight to a derail... lighten up Francis... :)

Gary

bwahahahaha.....

Lighten up Francis.... Gary you slay me! :hmm3grin2orange:
 
This is some good stuff for all of us newbie info junkies, the OP had some good questions. One thing I do is read alot, I don't pretend to know much, instead I look to those who do. If I understand all I think I know about an engine it is just an air pump, add fuel, make compression, some sparks, and off it goes. If I mod my restrictive muffler my pump will move more air, but if I don't add more fuel the air fuel mixture will be too lean and I could fry a piston. The rpm increase the OP is referring to could be attributed to a lean condition. If I lean out the carb on an unmodded saw higher rpms will be seen also. Does this make any sense at all?
 
No, I'm not explaining them. I'm asking about them.

I've been researching this site for a long time and I've found some very useful information. But I still have quite a few unanswered questions. Please bear with me as I take you through my train of thought.

When someone asks: "How does a muffler mod improve performance?", the usual answer is: "It increases air flow. The more easily an engine breaths, the better it runs."

Unfortunately, that begs the question: By what mechanism does air flow increse power?

On the one hand, I've read that the power increase comes from the increases in RPMs resulting from increased air flow. On the other hand, I've read that the H screw needs to be richened in order to keep the saw from over revving.

There's also the matter of greater power output (or is it more specifically, torque?) from a modded muffler at the same RPM level, compared to a non-modded muffler.


While pondering that, let me back up and explain my specific situation.

I have an MS390 which I'm considering modding. For purposes of this discussion, I'm making a rough comparison between it and the MS361. Anyone tempted to get sidetracked with the usual "pro saw versus consumer saw" debate, don't bother. My comparison has specific relevance to this discussion.

The 390 is rated to run at 13,000 RPMs. The 361 runs at 14,000RPMs. Given this difference alone (and an identical bar and chain setup), the 361 will clearly out perform the 390. However, engine speed doesn't tell the whole story. The other part is how well an engine maintains what speed it can muster under load. That's where non-speed related power/torque comes in. The 390 and the 361 have identical strokes, but the 390 has a slightly larger bore, so theoretically it would probably have a little more torque, thus what it lacks in top end speed, it partially makes up for in ability to motor through without bogging at a given speed. By comparison, the 361 generates at least a fair portion of its power through higher RPMs.


It appears that muffler modification can have two effects. One is that it increases power/torque across the RPM range. The other is that it increases actual engine speed, which results in faster cutting. It also appears that the most pronounced performance increase will be realized from a faster running engine, although that runs the risk of overheating and ruining the engine if you don't back out the "H" screw to allow more fuel through.


So here's where I need answers.

Is the purpose of richening the mixture after modding to bring the RPM level back down to spec, does it just provide more fuel to cool down a faster running engine, or does it do both?

Does muffler modding a saw necessarily mean sacrificing engine lifespan?

How much, if any of an RPM increase is "safe"?

Finally, other than the plastic crankcase, how are the actual engine materials between the 390 and 361 any different? I know the rod and bearings are the same. What about the cylinder and crank. Given the identical stroke between the two saws, I'm tempted to initially conclude that at least the cranks are identical.


Again, I don't want to debate the merits of one saw versus the other. I really just want to know how a proper muffler mod should be approched in principle. My comparison was to illustrate what I perceive to be two slightly variant approches to developing horse power.


If anyone has answers, I'll be most appreciative.

Your answer lies in Bernoulli's Principle.
ZG
 
I think the OP has some good questions that he is asking, looking forward to more replys, has anyone ever confirmed that a muffler mod will increase or decrease the life span of a chainsaw. Any pro's ever run two exact same saws with one having a muff mod and compared the life span of the two?
I have run both muffler modded ms 460 s and totally stock 460 s the stock ones usually last me me 6 months before they start losing there power and the dp cover one i have now is going on a year old. so iwould say they do last longer. A muffler modded saw is deffinently a more productive one.I would say that moddifiing a saw is just perfecting it to make it run the way it was really designed to . I know you can do more than muffler modding and cleaning up the ports to a saws but i just never have.
 
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It has been demonstrated (well enough to my satisfaction anyway) on this site that everything else being equal a well done muffler mod will reduce the running temp of a saw. My guess reduced wear due to temp decreaes will be offset to some extent by the additional power developed and hence greater forces that a freer breathing engine will experience. Whether the former is sufficient to counteract the latter is difficult to say with some serious longevity testing.

Constriction of the exhaust will increase running temperature. According to Jenning's, the optimum diameter of the "stinger" is very close to the size that can produce dangerous overheating.

You need heat to make power, but in a crankcase fed 2-stroke, heat can rob power as well. Run a 2-stroke on a dyno, and the "flash" HP will peak, and then drop as the temperature of the engine increases. The reason for the drop is that heating the air-fuel mixture in the crankcase decreases its density, so the same volume will have less fuel.

Removing restrictions on the muffler will lower temp, and part of the power increase probably comes from reducing the temperature of the charge, which increases charge density.

If that's the case, the mod should increase longevity.
 

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