There's no money in selling firewood

[luckydozenfarm]

I'm close to FM2920 but no that wasn't me calling you. I know a few guys in Magnolia and Conroe that had wood up until Christmas but they are sold out also.

 

[Pruning@trunk]

So you want me to give you my trade secrets so you can compete with me?

Why would I do that?

^^^^ This comment pretty much sums it all up or a comment like "there is no money to be made in this business" --- sometimes people like to down play whatever business they are in so as to not have more competition (lower prices/making less profit).

Thanks for starting this thread up again and giving others another view of the business.

 

[luckydozenfarm]

^^^^ This comment pretty much sums it all up or a comment like "there is no money to be made in this business" --- sometimes people like to down play whatever business they are in so as to not have more competition (lower prices/making less profit).

Thanks for starting this thread up again and giving others another view of the business.

He was kidding around..He and I both sell wood in the Houston area and he was thinking I was trying to get him to tell me his secret. That post was aimed at me directly not anyone else on the forum I'm sure....Its all good

 

[luckydozenfarm]

Ahem, why would anyone need to "guess" about firewood? We always stacked our wood to let it season for close to or over a year. Thus when sale time came it was a simple matter of just measuring off part of the stack, putting it on a truck and going. All the times I stacked my wood I always piled it so each face cord could stand on its own with criss crossed ends, and it was over 4' tall to compensate for the ends. There never was any question about volume because the wood was stacked to dry.

For years we also stacked it upon delivery but when we crossed over 500 cord/year I said I had enough of that %$^& and I started only doing dumps unless the customer paid for stacking. My dad hated when I implemented that policy but he was not making most of the deliveries, I was.

I know what you are saying about the deliveries. I'm pretty sick and tired of trekking a wheelbarrow across uneven pavers, watching out for shrubs, and trying to get through tiny gates. I'm going to pallets next year and I'm going to just unload the pallet on the driveway and say "here ya go". That little extra of stacking it for them means I can only get to about 6-8 customers a day. And if I brought help, I wouldn't make any money and it wouldn't be worth doing. If I can pull up and drop off a pallet and be back on the road in 10 minutes, I could get to more people per day. I'm just hoping ppl are ok with that and I don't lose customers.

 

[jrider]

I know what you are saying about the deliveries. I'm pretty sick and tired of trekking a wheelbarrow across uneven pavers, watching out for shrubs, and trying to get through tiny gates. I'm going to pallets next year and I'm going to just unload the pallet on the driveway and say "here ya go". That little extra of stacking it for them means I can only get to about 6-8 customers a day. And if I brought help, I wouldn't make any money and it wouldn't be worth doing. If I can pull up and drop off a pallet and be back on the road in 10 minutes, I could get to more people per day. I'm just hoping ppl are ok with that and I don't lose customers.

I did 100 cords this year as a side thing and delivered pretty much all of it. I accomplish most of my deliveries on weekends so time is crucial therefore, unless you are old or have a medical condition, I don't offer stacking. One thing I have mentioned to potential customers who want it stacked though is to find a local teen looking to make a few bucks and pay them to do it. Better yet, if you can find a reliable one with a car, he can go house to house after you deliver and do the stacking. With the economy as it is, there are plenty of hungry kids out there looking to get paid honest cash for honest money. Are there plenty who don't want to work but still want the cash? You bet but as a high school teacher, I have found plenty who will bust their butts for cash. If you don't want to deal with the headache, simply find a few who want to work and give out their numbers to potential customers and then you don't have to worry about it.

 

[luckydozenfarm]

Yeah I'm pretty much getting tired of that particular part of the business to be honest. In order to do more wood than I'm already doing I'm going to have to stop stacking wood and just drop it off. It just takes too long and by the end of the day my back is really feeling it. At least on a pallet its stacked and shrink-wrapped. They can re-stack it wherever they want or just leave it in the pallet.

 

[Pruning@trunk]

He was kidding around..He and I both sell wood in the Houston area and he was thinking I was trying to get him to tell me his secret. That post was aimed at me directly not anyone else on the forum I'm sure....Its all good

Not picking on him "per se" but the attitude. Look at the threads name. A couple of weeks ago, I asked about starting up a firewood business and you get the comments like "there is no money to be made in it" and the like---it is just a weak attempt to dissuade people getting into the business in hopes that there will be less competition and high firewood prices. But I guess I shouldn't have expected anything else.

 

[luckydozenfarm]

Well you aren't going to be on the Forbes 500 list by selling firewood, let's be honest.
I like to compare it to picking up a penny off the street. It's money right there on the ground, all you have to do is bend down and get it.
There is money to be made, and I would guess its about $20-30 per hour in my firewood business. It's more of a money making hobby, along with my vegetable truck farm. However, its a good way to make money in the winter for me when most of my other businesses slow down. Plus my capital outlays are almost zero because I already have most of my equipment.

 

[hammerhead 5410]

Come sell it here in suburban Chicago......$330 a cord mixed and $400 to $420 oak!! All year long!!

 

[Jim Timber]

I know what you are saying about the deliveries. I'm pretty sick and tired of trekking a wheelbarrow across uneven pavers, watching out for shrubs, and trying to get through tiny gates. I'm going to pallets next year and I'm going to just unload the pallet on the driveway and say "here ya go". That little extra of stacking it for them means I can only get to about 6-8 customers a day. And if I brought help, I wouldn't make any money and it wouldn't be worth doing. If I can pull up and drop off a pallet and be back on the road in 10 minutes, I could get to more people per day. I'm just hoping ppl are ok with that and I don't lose customers.

This has been my plan from day one. Build a pallet or skid that I can load onto a trailer and drop then drive away. I'll make the pallets out of my less desirable wood and it'll be factored into the costs. I can also stack fully deliverable quantities in pallet racking via a forklift, so my storage space could be minimized.

 

[muddstopper]

I cant believe I just sat here and read this entire 4yr old thread. I guess that just proves everything that was said is still relevant today.
I dont sell fire wood, but I try to keep a pretty good supply on hand for my own use. I have had people ask to buy some, but I just tell them Not for sale. If I was to hear of someone in a real needy situation, I would probably give them a wk's worth or two, but I wouldnt sell them any.

Based on my experience of burning wood for heat, the cost of produceing wood can get very high. Saws, Trucks, splitters and then finding wood to cut. I am an opportunist in that I take every kind of log I can get my hands on. I dont care if its big, little, knotty, crooked or straight. I built a splitter that will handle it all. I dont think if I was selling I would accept some of the wood I use simply because that old cull wood takes time to process. I think in a firewood business, speed and productivity would be the key to how much money you can make. You cant think in the terms of I only sell xx cords per year and I do it because its fun and I can keep in shape. Walking and exercise will keep you in shape and doesnt cost a fortune in gas and tools to accomplish. To me, if your selling firewood, then you have a business not a hobby, doesnt mater if its 1 cord or 1000. The overhead is the same. Same saw, same axe, same truck. the only difference is the more wood you sell, the more you can spread out the cost of your equipment. A $500 saw and a $20000. truck dont make financial sense if your only going to sell a cord or 2 or wood, but spread that cost over a 1000 cords and all of a sudden that saw and truck dont seem like so big an expense. Dont think just because you already own a saw and truck and wood splitter that the cost of owning that equipment doesnt factor in to your partime hobby wood business. Simple fact is if you use that equipment to maintain your business, then you have to make something back to pay for them. Otherwise, that brand new truck and chainsaw will be worn out in a few years, because of their use in a business, and you wont have any money in the business account to replace them. That little bit of hobby income you produced over the life of your equipment is gone in a puff of smoke to replace the very equipment you used to produce that income. Thats the number one reason you see so many flyby niters in any business. Those folks simply dont know how to figure out the total cost of doing business and once all their equipment is worn out, they cant afford to replace it, so they move on to the next sure thing, get rich quick, business. You dont have to go big or go home in the firewood business, but you cant underprice your product just to increase the amount you sell. Your fixed cost will remain the same and you must charge enought to cover all expenses or dont make the sell. No body is in business to lose money, but if you aint factoring in all your cost before you start counting the profits, you will either endup working for free or loseing money on every cord you sell.

 

[PLAYINWOOD]

Come sell it here in suburban Chicago......$330 a cord mixed and $400 to $420 oak!! All year long!!

Toronto is 550 all year long

 

[zogger]

Toronto is 550 all year long

What is median pay in Toronto? How does that wood price compare to propane/fuel oil/natgas/pure electric heating costs?

Because that is simply an unreal price for wood, that is like bulk wood at bundle prices.

 

[farmer steve]

I cant believe I just sat here and read this entire 4yr old thread. I guess that just proves everything that was said is still relevant today.
I dont sell fire wood, but I try to keep a pretty good supply on hand for my own use. I have had people ask to buy some, but I just tell them Not for sale. If I was to hear of someone in a real needy situation, I would probably give them a wk's worth or two, but I wouldnt sell them any.

Based on my experience of burning wood for heat, the cost of produceing wood can get very high. Saws, Trucks, splitters and then finding wood to cut. I am an opportunist in that I take every kind of log I can get my hands on. I dont care if its big, little, knotty, crooked or straight. I built a splitter that will handle it all. I dont think if I was selling I would accept some of the wood I use simply because that old cull wood takes time to process. I think in a firewood business, speed and productivity would be the key to how much money you can make. You cant think in the terms of I only sell xx cords per year and I do it because its fun and I can keep in shape. Walking and exercise will keep you in shape and doesnt cost a fortune in gas and tools to accomplish. To me, if your selling firewood, then you have a business not a hobby, doesnt mater if its 1 cord or 1000. The overhead is the same. Same saw, same axe, same truck. the only difference is the more wood you sell, the more you can spread out the cost of your equipment. A $500 saw and a $20000. truck dont make financial sense if your only going to sell a cord or 2 or wood, but spread that cost over a 1000 cords and all of a sudden that saw and truck dont seem like so big an expense. Dont think just because you already own a saw and truck and wood splitter that the cost of owning that equipment doesnt factor in to your partime hobby wood business. Simple fact is if you use that equipment to maintain your business, then you have to make something back to pay for them. Otherwise, that brand new truck and chainsaw will be worn out in a few years, because of their use in a business, and you wont have any money in the business account to replace them. That little bit of hobby income you produced over the life of your equipment is gone in a puff of smoke to replace the very equipment you used to produce that income. Thats the number one reason you see so many flyby niters in any business. Those folks simply dont know how to figure out the total cost of doing business and once all their equipment is worn out, they cant afford to replace it, so they move on to the next sure thing, get rich quick, business. You dont have to go big or go home in the firewood business, but you cant underprice your product just to increase the amount you sell. Your fixed cost will remain the same and you must charge enought to cover all expenses or dont make the sell. No body is in business to lose money, but if you aint factoring in all your cost before you start counting the profits, you will either endup working for free or loseing money on every cord you sell.

Well said muddstopper.now if you could post that on craigslist..................................

 

[John R]

I don't want to sell any wood, so don't flame me.


I just had a load of wood delivered (10 cord) and what I paid for it, if I could sell wood at the prices you guy's are getting for a cord, I could make out great.

 

[PLAYINWOOD]

What is median pay in Toronto? How does that wood price compare to propane/fuel oil/natgas/pure electric heating costs?

Because that is simply an unreal price for wood, that is like bulk wood at bundle prices.

median pay....50Gs for poor folks, average hous is about 500 and change, most in a decent area is 800.
The rich, the green and artistic love wood plus there is a huge Italian and jewish population that build bagels and thin crust pizza using wood fired ovens. Did I mention the rich, its a fashion statement
and every high end Hotel in a town of 6 million
LPG 4 a gallon, now,
NG cheap and cheaper
oil 4 a gallon, hardly anyone on it.
wood..550 a cord.
2 or 3 companies do 3000 to 5000 cubic cord a year plus the small guys


www.universityfirewood.ca/

 

[PLAYINWOOD]

zogger , Toronto is third after NYC and LA for size in NA, last time I looked, Atlanta was 4th which familiar with. Imagine if wood powered air conditioners in Atl. That's what happens in TO in the winter...
logistics and travel time are the profit killer

 

[zogger]

median pay....50Gs for poor folks, average hous is about 500 and change, most in a decent area is 800.
The rich, the green and artistic love wood plus there is a huge Italian and jewish population that build bagels and thin crust pizza using wood fired ovens. Did I mention the rich, its a fashion statement
and every high end Hotel in a town of 6 million
LPG 4 a gallon, now,
NG cheap and cheaper
oil 4 a gallon, hardly anyone on it.
wood..550 a cord.
2 or 3 companies do 3000 to 5000 cubic cord a year plus the small guys


www.universityfirewood.ca/

Nice business man! Thanks for the reply, I guess if de po folks make 50 grand..those prices aren't terrible then.

 

[PLAYINWOOD]

I shouldn't say po folk, some on the streets of course,
but a garbage man is 25 an hour street car or bus driver is $30.
Plumber/auto shop/pool/heating/roofing/ company is $90/hr

 

[zogger]

I shouldn't say po folk, some on the streets of course,
but a garbage man is 25 an hour street car or bus driver is $30.
Plumber/auto shop/pool/heating/roofing/ company is $90/hr

I make less than an hour for a garbageman pay a day.....

That's why I got so completely berserker annoyed when my good saws got stolen..