Thinking of modding my splitter...Advice?

[PlankSpanker]

Hey all,
I've got a homemade splitter with a Wisconsin AENLD engine on it (9.2HP @ 3600 rpm) running an ancient Vickers single-stage pump by means of a chain and sprockets. It's slow but will split all but the most twisted piece of crap. The reservoir is built into the I-beam and by my estimation has a volume of about 2 gallons. One problem I have is keeping the chain lubricated. If I don't keep it regularly greased it will go dry and overheat and the chain will snap and destroy the sprockets in short order. Replacing the chain and spockets is complicated by some nearly inaccessible bolts behind the chain case. I would like to find a pump mount for this particular engine so I can mount a 2-stage pump and a lovejoy connection. I'm guessing this would also involve a new valve and a larger reservoir tank? Anybody here have this motor on their splitter? If so, is there a bolt-on pump mount available? I'm guessing a 2 gallon reservoir is not going to be large enough for even the smallest 2-stage pump. I'm not a welder but I know some very good welders that would mount a tank on the splitter if necessary. Any advice is most welcome.

 

[mga]

check out northern tool for lovejoy connectors. they have enough there to match your engine shaft OD to the new pump OD. and don't forget the rubber spider.

yea..get rid of that chain and sprocket deal...ASAP.

definately go with a larger tank...maybe 10 gallons or so. the larger the tank, the more the oil cools. also, if you are designing your own tank, there are some general basic rules to follow:

1. must be vented.

2. the inlet should drop to 1" of the bottom (this helps prevent bubbling)

3. should be baffled (this prevents the oil from agitating)

4. the suction pipe should be about 1" off the bottom (this helps prevent some small object to get sucked in)

this is my home made splitter...just for ideas:

http://s89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/mga_01/

 

[tawilson]

Northern Tool has oil tanks, also.

 

[PlankSpanker]

check out northern tool for lovejoy connectors. they have enough there to match your engine shaft OD to the new pump OD. and don't forget the rubber spider.

yea..get rid of that chain and sprocket deal...ASAP.

definately go with a larger tank...maybe 10 gallons or so. the larger the tank, the more the oil cools. also, if you are designing your own tank, there are some general basic rules to follow:

1. must be vented.

2. the inlet should drop to 1" of the bottom (this helps prevent bubbling)

3. should be baffled (this prevents the oil from agitating)

4. the suction pipe should be about 1" off the bottom (this helps prevent some small object to get sucked in)

this is my home made splitter...just for ideas:

http://s89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/mga_01/

Thanks for the tips MGA,
That's a fine looking splitter you built. I'm dealing with a horizontal shaft so I'll be needing a bracket to come off the motor to support the pump. I think since I'm a little short on time for this project that I'll try mounting the existing pump on a bracket assembly. This means the pump will be turning the same rpm's as the motor. Is that gonna slow things down unbearably? P.S. I'm really jealous of your electric start.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Thats one hell of an engine you have there. does it have a mag or is a newer ignition style? If its got a mag and the mag is set up correctly it should fire on the 1-2nd pull reliably.


You should probably look for a two stage pump in the future, that would make a nice splitter .

 

[mga]

Thanks for the tips MGA,
That's a fine looking splitter you built. I'm dealing with a horizontal shaft so I'll be needing a bracket to come off the motor to support the pump. I think since I'm a little short on time for this project that I'll try mounting the existing pump on a bracket assembly. This means the pump will be turning the same rpm's as the motor. Is that gonna slow things down unbearably? P.S. I'm really jealous of your electric start.

i believe northern tool also has the mounting bracket for the pump to the engine. you just have to be sure the holes match up or be able to alter it to suit your needs.

yea...the electric start is nice. the engine came off of an older lawn tractor i wasn't using any more.

i almost....almost....originally went with a 27 hp wisconsin engine i have sitting in the back yard...but that thing is a hand-crank engine...lol. i saw a home made log splitter made with one of those....talk about being a bear. so, now i'll have to find another use for it other than a home for wasps.

 

[PlankSpanker]

The Wisconsin I have is a magneto type ignition which has a rope start pulley on it. It's a real pain to start but it was rebuilt a while back and has plenty of pop and snort to it. Funny thing is, I know where there is another engine sitting on a refrigeration trailer that has electric start. It's just a matter of pulling it off and rebuilding the starter. Not sure how to get the rope pulley off of mine though. Kinda far down on my list of priorities now. I'm gonna run up to Northern today though and see what they have for pump brackets. I post a picture later on so you can see what I'm dealing with. I'm just hoping that the 1-to-1 matchup with the motor isn't too slow for now.

 

[Rleonard]

Wisconsin Pump Adapter

I built up an adapter for a TJD Wisconsin, the twin cylinder variant of what you have. Couplings came from McMaster Carr and a day in the shop.

My adapter is basically 4 pieces. A plate matched to the pump, a plate that fits the engine, and 2 angle iron spacers in between. Photos are here;

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/pilot...=&.done=http://photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

This setup works nicely

Bob

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Relonard, nice splitter! I rember seeing pics of it before.


Usually when PPL are having trouble trying to start an engine with a mag, its simply they are working too hard at it or the mag needs timed, reapired or the engine needs carb work.


I have the same engine as Relonards on my generator, its 45 years old (its permenently mounted in the basement), this engine easily starts with the hand crank by simply priming the engine (with choke) and lifting the handle 1/4 turn on the upswing side.


I let friends start it sometimes when they dont believe this is possable.


Ive seen PPL at engine shows crankin away at them like mad and not get them started, this due to the Mag being "Retarded" when it snaps over, ie it fires at 20* ATDC. If you dont here the mag snapping your spinning it too fast.


One snap of the mag on a properly tuned engine is all it should take.

 

[mga]

One snap of the mag on a properly tuned engine is all it should take

that's how that old wisconsin engine is...i just have to crank it once while choked, then it starts right up. hearing that mag snap for the first time i thought something was broke inside...lol

it's a VF4 and i managed to find a nice manual for it on ebay. but when it runs, it purrs. it was/is connected to a 6.5 KW generator....and old Katolight. it still works, but i need to build a panel box for it. i doubt that i will. for $250 i can get a modern 7K generator all set up...just hook the engine to it.

maybe i'll sell the generator part for scrap......

 

[PlankSpanker]

I built up an adapter for a TJD Wisconsin, the twin cylinder variant of what you have. Couplings came from McMaster Carr and a day in the shop.

My adapter is basically 4 pieces. A plate matched to the pump, a plate that fits the engine, and 2 angle iron spacers in between. Photos are here;

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/pilot...=&.done=http://photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

This setup works nicely

Bob

Hey Bob, I was thinking in terms of a lovejoy connection but it looks as though your pump fits right over the crankshaft. Looks good though. This is becoming more difficult at least in terms of finding an adapter made for my engine. I looked at what was available at Northern and the engine bolt holes don't appear to line up. On the Wisconsin the holes are at noon and six, nine and three and are symmetrically square. Other engines have the spacing horizontally wider at the bottom and narrower at top. I suppose you could drill some holes but I'm thinking fabrication may be the key. Distance between pump and motor shaft is another measument to think about. I've included some pictures of the existing setup. One concern I have is that the welders that built this setup used chain drive with a 15-tooth on the crankshaft and a 23-tooth on the pump. This would reduce rpm's on the pump would it not? That means that if I direct couple the old Vickers V200 it'll be turning faster? Might not be too good for the old beast. Anyhow, I guess I'm still fishing for more suggestions. Maybe the pictures will help. I should mention that I did purchase a lovejoy coupling to match existing pump and motor shaft.

 

[mga]

you can make a nice solid plate to mount the pump in the right position to the engine instead of using an adapter. the only area that needs to be of concern is the shaft alignment for engine to pump.

my engine has a vertical shaft and i had to design mounting plates for that and the pump, then align them carefully before marking the mount holes. since you have an engine already mounted, i'd go with a nice, solid plate to hold the pump in place and that can be welded to the splitter frame. no need to have it mounted to the engine.

or, even something "U" shaped like this: (E) |_| (P) with engine on one side, pump on the other.
lol..internet art...gotta love it.

 

[laynes69]

Hey PlankSpanker whats the numbers on that pump, would you consider selling it if you upgraded? From the looks of the pump, its around a 5 gpm pump. Almost the same thing on my tractor. A bigger hydraulic resivour, and a larger pump would benefit you alot.

 

[woodchop]

PlankSpanker,
Looking at the second picture of the pump it looks like you have a crack in the pump mounting plate on the left side of the pump, top to bottom.

 

[PlankSpanker]

PlankSpanker,
Looking at the second picture of the pump it looks like you have a crack in the pump mounting plate on the left side of the pump, top to bottom.

Nope,
My Bad. The crack you see is actually the top cover of the chain case but is oriented in the picture to the side. Good eye though. I'm trying out my new camera and it seems to do a nice job. I'm still wondering if running an old Vickers V200 at 3600 rpm is a bad thing for a splitter.

 

[PlankSpanker]

Hey PlankSpanker whats the numbers on that pump, would you consider selling it if you upgraded? From the looks of the pump, its around a 5 gpm pump. Almost the same thing on my tractor. A bigger hydraulic resivour, and a larger pump would benefit you alot.

I'm still undecided about what I'm gonna do with the splitter. I really need to know if a direct coupling is a good idea but nobody seems to have an opinion yet. If I do decide to upgrade I wouldn't mind sending the pump and maybe the valve body to a good home. Numbers are V200 6 3C 12.

 

[mga]

the only draw back to a non-direct coupling would be any loss of RPM's in the pump in relation to the engine, unless you have the same size gear or pulley.

if you did use the same rear or pulley, then i'd go with the love-joy connector. the rubber spider between them will also save the pump or engine if something catastrophic happened and one of them jammed.

making a mount for the pump isn't a big deal and aligning them is simple. i took a piece of thin sheet metal and wrapped it around both love-joy connectors then put a radiator clamp around that and tightened it up. it worked excellent. once aligned, i marked and drilled holes for the engine ( in my case..the pump in yours) then bolted it all up.

 

[jags]

I personally believe that you would see great benefits from getting a 2 stage pump and directly (using a love-joy) connecting it to the engine. You will get the improved performance of a high volume pump (for cycle times) as well as the high pressure for those nasty little pieces that defeat a bunker buster bomb. You may also find that with a pump of that design, you can maintain a lower rpm on your engine and STILL outperform your old pump by a bunch. You were askin' for opinions, here ya go! The only downside to this solution is the extra $$$ that the pump is gonna cost over reusing the one you have and building the pump/engine bracket. I have noticed that you refered to welders in the past. Most any welder should be able to fabricate a mount for you if finding one proves difficult. All you need is the engine bolt pattern, the pump bolt pattern and the distance from engine to pump. Bingo - bracket done.

 

[laynes69]

Dont think I could use that one. I was looking for a pump for my tractors hydraulics, more of a backup. But my pumps a V120. I think you can find the parts you need at a TSC store.

 

[PlankSpanker]

I personally believe that you would see great benefits from getting a 2 stage pump and directly (using a love-joy) connecting it to the engine. You will get the improved performance of a high volume pump (for cycle times) as well as the high pressure for those nasty little pieces that defeat a bunker buster bomb. You may also find that with a pump of that design, you can maintain a lower rpm on your engine and STILL outperform your old pump by a bunch. You were askin' for opinions, here ya go! The only downside to this solution is the extra $$$ that the pump is gonna cost over reusing the one you have and building the pump/engine bracket. I have noticed that you refered to welders in the past. Most any welder should be able to fabricate a mount for you if finding one proves difficult. All you need is the engine bolt pattern, the pump bolt pattern and the distance from engine to pump. Bingo - bracket done.

Thanks for the input jags and mga,
Ok then, I'll just pony up for the 2-stage pump. Can I survive with the existing 2 gallon reservoir? Will the existing valve be OK?