Throwbag nightmare

[SINGLE-JACK]

Yep! I tie mine every time, in a similar fashion.

I am going to check out the tied loop or perhaps a spliced loop for even quicker attachment, as described somewhere above. (I don't know if my throw line can be spliced. I'll need to get out the reading glasses before I can find out.)

'Spliced' eyes in throwline - Locking Brummels with burried ends:
1/2" XTC FIRE (left, just for scale) - DYNAGLIDE (center) - FLING-IT (right)

 

[pdqdl]

Beautiful picture SJ!

Wouldn't you want your loop to be big enough to go over the end of the throw bag?

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Beautiful picture SJ!

Wouldn't you want your loop to be big enough to go over the end of the throw bag?

Well, sure - you can do that but I'm doing something a little different ... which has greatly improved my speed and accuracy at setting a line.

I'm still "tweaking" the setup but check out this earlier post from this thread (+ a few follow-on posts):

Throwbag nightmare - Post 95

:agree2:

I've always liked a slip-knot like JPS recommends. But, I'm trying to take it a step further. After a bad shot (and during practice) to speed up pulling the line back, I've found it faster to remove the bag to assure no hang-up. Clearing a hang-up easily waste much more time than several bad shots.

But, un-tieing and re-tieing the bag is a waste of time, too. So, I've been trying several ways to speed up connecting the bag, including TM's micro. Here's where I am now (comments & complaints welcome):

I'm using a short segment of throwline with Locking Brummel Eyes at each end. Locking Brummel Eyes are extremely easy to put in Dynaglide. The bag is girthed in one eye and a very small 'dog' snap is girthed in the other eye. The length of the short segment puts the snap at the ideal 'GRIP' location that TM recommends. The snap connects to a Locking Brummel Eye in the main throwline.

So far, it's saving a lot of time and no hang-ups ... yet ...

Throwbag nightmare - Post 98
... location of the snap ... to achieve the best balance of height and accuracy.

Throwbag nightmare - Post 99
... how to isolate a limb without a shot-bag on the end of the throwline?

Throwbag nightmare - Post 106
... quality of the grip is directly related to the quality of the shot.

 

[Tree Machine]

Very cool, Single-Jack.

Has anyone spliced a short length of 2.2 mm to a long length of 1.75 mm?

You would hold the 2.2 right where it transitions to the smaller stuff. Better barehand grip on the larger stuff.



What's it going to take to get Bermie throwing like a champ?

I think there has been progress made on the overall management of the shotline, which is a large time portion of the overall process (the throw itself being just a few blinks).


The faster you can deal with your line, the faster the whole process goes, even with missed shots. Grippy gloves, fast. Clipping on fast. Being able to abort an off-shot, now that's another time saver, but it takes reflexes and real timing.

I tried those gloves... I couldn't stand the smell or rubber lingering with me in the tree for some reason. Maybe this wears off after a while??

The Atlas gloves have that smell. So do winter weight gloves. The lightweight, 3-season smurfies, they don't have that smell, thankfully.

 

[moss]

Very cool, Single-Jack.

Has anyone spliced a short length of 2.2 mm to a long length of 1.75 mm?

You would hold the 2.2 right where it transitions to the smaller stuff. Better barehand grip on the larger stuff.

I have 100 ft. of 1.75 tied to 2.2mm for a different reason, the lighter line in front allows a higher max throw, the thicker line is easier to handle and manage working the throwbag in the tree. I didn't splice them, just two bowlines, one capturing the loop on the other. It never gets tangled or hung, I have no idea why, you'd think it would.
-moss

 

[pdqdl]

Sheet bend!

Use the thinner line on the tucked under leg. Smaller knot, just as strong, it is essentially the same thing as a bowline. One knot instead of two.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

...
What's it going to take to get Bermie throwing like a champ?
...

Bermie -

OK! ... I'll give it my best shot (excuse the pun) and pass on some advice I was given, long ago. It was on a different subject but translates well.
A lot of what follows has already been said, so consider any redundancy as: :agree2:

It takes three things to hit your target with a throwbag:
1. Consistency
2. Focus
3. Practice; 4. Practice; 5. Practice; … 6. PRACTICE!
... & I’ll add; 7. LUCK – ain’t nothin’ like luck!

Consistency = MINIMIZE variables; you can’t control your target, wind, terrain, obstructions, distractions, etc. - but you CAN:
- Always use the same weight – find one that works best and buy spares.
- Always use the same line – the best, DynaGlide 1.8mm
- Always grip the same way – knot, placement, finger positions, no glove
- Always use the same stance – do your best to get the same footing
- Always swing the same way – same number of times, speed, height, etc.
- Always release the same way – relax the grip identically every throw

Focus = Keep your eyes on the target. This is the most important part of hitting any target. There’s some folklore about the famous baseball player, Ted Williams. The story goes; hi-speed photography attributed his success to his eyes being focused on the ball when it hit the bat. No one else did that. He didn’t believe it, but that’s the legend …

Remember, your target is NOT the branch. Focus your eyes, intently, on the target: that space above the branch. Also, practice your swing so that you can just peripherally see the throwbag at the stop of each swing. Don’t look at the throwbag – look at the target.

Practice; Practice; Practice; … PRACTICE!
How hard to swing? When to release? That’s what practice is for. You have to build the “muscle memory” by making shots over and over and over ‘til you KNOW; how hard to swing & when to release.

Now if all that fails you can cheat: If you got the line on any branch above the desired branch, you can use limb isolation tricks to get your line exactly where you want it. But, that’s a whole different thread

Well, that’s all I got – hope it helps. GOOD LUCK!

Comments, Corrections, Complaints ... WELCOME!


-Jack

 

[Tree Machine]

Yea, yea, well-said. Bermie, memorize all that, you will be quizzed on it every time you pick up a throwbag.

The eye focussing on the ball hitting the bat. Summarily, that means don't blink at the moment of truth. I learned this from a cat, yes a feline, that taught me a life-changing lesson I use to this day and directly applicable to the issue of focus.

As we all know, cats are like top-dog when it comes to hunting (pun definitely intended). When I was 13 I was playing reflex games with this cat, playing, but playing hard. Hand and wrist vs. cat. Who is faster? Well, the cat, of course, they have this internal instinctual natural ability to be 'on-target'. Early on I was focussing on the cat focussing. The intent, the deep, deep attention, pupils dilate, the body readies itself the shot and wham!

All cats are like this, domestic home cats, jaguars, lions. And the one thing I learned from this cat of mine, and have noticed in other cats (like on a National Geographic special) is that right at the moment of pounce, the cat does not blink his eyes.

The reason it changed my life at age 13 is I was a wrestler in high school. Applying the lesson of the cat, I had an advantage no one else really knew of or understood. By #1 not blinking and #2 knowing when the opponent would blink changed my competitive advantage in a most remarkable way. The most critical action takes place in the fraction of a second. The rest is prep and finish. During that critical fraction of a second be aware of where your eyes are, where your target is (the area above the limb) and where that bag is going to go.

During that critical fraction of a second involving the final flick and release, do not blink.

 

[pdqdl]

....

As we all know, cats are like top-dog when it comes to hunting (pun definitely intended).

Notwithstanding your worthy comments on staying focused...cats aren't any faster than other predators. They do have the quickest paws, but that pales by comparison with the overall biting speed of canines (notwithstanding how fast cheetahs run). And the top predator of this world (apart from man) swims for dinner, has bat-like echo location skills, and readily eats ANYTHING it wants and can get to: KILLER WHALES.

NOTHING compares to bats for speed and agility (while in the air). Even the predatory birds that regularly eat bats for dinner must catch them out in open spaces.

The most vicious, voracious predator of the warm blooded variety: the shrew. They eat their own weight every day, and tackle animals much larger than themselves.

Hardest working predator of ALL creatures: the hummingbird! (You didn't really think they lived on just sugar water did you?)










Sorry about that...it's friday night, and I am relaxing. This thread has been pretty much beat to death anyway.

 

[outofmytree]

Yes grasshopper, to be focussed and fast you must channel the spirit of the deadly shrew.

Somehow doesn't have the right ring to it.

 

[VA-Sawyer]

In the winter a hardwood tree is about 90 % open space, but I manage to hit branches ( often the same one) on the upward flight about 4 out of 5 trys. The shotbag can really bounce off in an unexpected direction when that happens. People have learned to grab their hardhats when I get out the throwlines.

 

[Bermie]

I, Grasshopper, will take to heart all wise counsel so dispersed by my mentors and masters...to focus, to not blink, to SEE the bag fly true to the target, and when success has been obtained, pause and thank the AS fountains of wisdom for my newfound skill and confidence.

The masses will cheer, the pets will be realeased from shelter, light may enter houses as protective shutters come down, and many a sweaty head will be relieved of the need for a hard hat in my presence...

Ha, for real guys, thanks for all the great tips...it will hearten you to know I nailed a throw on Thursday, first time, with the HO watching...mind you it was only about 12' up...small steps, small steps...

Have one on me everyone...

 

[treejock1]

Omg is this the oldest thread on here?

 

[Bermie]

Omg is this the oldest thread on here?

Ha, ha...certainly has a charmed life doesn't it! Oldest active at the moment...the regulatory thread must be pretty old too...

 

[Tree Machine]

We're just getting warmed up.

 

[Adkpk]

Throw-bagging is the unsung hero or as it may be, the unsung pita. More of the trials and tribulations should be discussed here.

 

[Adkpk]

It never gets tangled or hung, I have no idea why, you'd think it would.
-moss

I've seen you throwbag, you have a lot of patients.


Single Jack, did you splice the throwlines yourself?:jawdrop:

 

[Tree Machine]

More of the trials and tribulations should be discussed here.

Here's a once-in-a-lifer. Both parts broke in the same instant.

It never gets tangled or hung, I have no idea why, you'd think it would.
-moss

I have to agree 100% here. In the last ten years I have had ONE mini biner get hung up. The shotbag was being pulled out, it was dropping and hit a gutter. The bag went in the gutter and the biner hit the gutter, wire gate opened and clamped the gutter. I celebrated the moment because it was a one-in-a-million and I knew I'd probably never see that again.

As moss says, it never gets tangled or hung. You would think it would. The mini biner will always get through, but the bag is bigger. Hang-ups are more often because the line either wraps multiple times around something, or over a limb and the line wraps around it's own self more than once. Experience with this kinda thing is the only way to learn how to prevent it the next time, not doing again what it took to do it this time.

 

[outofmytree]

I was thinking about this thread when throwing into a dead wooding job yestreday. 31 minutes to set my climbing line. I was obviously NOT channeling the mighty shrew!

 

[Tree Machine]

That's painful, outofmytree. Yesterday I set three ropes in under ten minutes, same crown, for the tree I'm heading to this morning. Two were throws, one a bigshot. I do this on wide spreading crowns to facilitate aerial traverses.

I had a realization on how I hope I can help the frustrated throwers. I'll try, but I need to take a couple pictures today.

Throwing should be happiness, not hassle.

May the shrew be with you.