Throwline management

[Tree Machine]

3 questions:
1. What is it called (the smaller reel)?

Shotline Reel. Both the big and small one. They're just different looking versions of the same thing.

2. Where do you get it?

Not commercially available at present, though there are a few of the newer versions sitting in wait.

3. Have you tried using the reel with ZingIt and a Big Shot?

You're so very funny, Andrew. That's a troll question if I ever heard one. Of COURSE I've used it with a BigShot and ZingIt (both diamaters). I've been using shotline reels since before Tobe brought the bigshot to market, before there was an Arboristsite.

I've found a way to get them to pass the frisbee test; that's where a groundie (or me) tosses the reel like a frisbee toward the truck.

This device has undergone a LOT of testing. I've used it for every first shot with the big shot since there was one, as well as all first hand-throws. This amounts to thousands of uses over the years, and pretty much daily now.


Winding it up..... I tried drilling holes in the under plate. Find a small stick, put it in there, use the stick as a 'handle'. I think, too, there was a picture of one with a winder handle on it. That handle was too far to the outer diameter of the underplate, made the winding too slow and made the reel sit on the ground at an angle and it stowed funny because it didn't sit flat. Then I tried a couple other things, but you know what made the best winder handle? A big, saltwater fishing swivel. Reel lays flat, winds up fast, I knocked the big diameter of the reel down to a smaller diameter, so it's more compact and stows better. Now I rivet a disc of polycarbonate to reinforce the under plate. Looks very cool and I've had a hard time destroying the latest version (no picture, sorry).

The true test, though, is firing a full velocity shot off the reel with the bigshot and have it deploy perfectly. Mmmmm.

It took me a few versions to get this thing from working well to working perfect every time. I still don't recommend running over it with the truck, but there's a good chance it will survive. Reeling it in is really fast, and perfect every time. Flaking line INTO something was always a pain for me. I don't have room on my truck for a 5 gallon plastic bucket to hold 40 grams of line. I remember infuriating tangles in my distant past. I had to take matters into my own hands. This is a really good tool, I've worked at it and tested it repeatedly to make a reel ANYONE can use successfully from their very first shot.

I offered one to Tom Dunlap last November, but he already had a system he seemed to be happy with.

 

[xtremetrees]

Daumm TM your tech look effecient, time tested and bomb proof.

I would say it borderlines on squirlle fishing. Ar you really a Doctor.

I use a laundry bag (Clolalspable) and I downt own a big shot but my throws are getting better.
carrying the small sherril throwball bag aloft helps keep down the bordom of reotien removals

 

[Tree Machine]

plain and simple

It just woiks.

 

[ClimbinArbor]

searching about line tamers and came across this... so TM when can we get one?

how much?

 

[Tree Machine]

Hmmmm, you're the sixth person in a week to ask.

I'm wondering why the interest all of sudden.

December 2007 we went into deep discussion on the reel (at another forum site). A good Arbo friend from Hawaii posted a picture, started a thread and summoned me in. I was on vacation, with laptop and 7 years worth of images, all of the early versions, the upgraded versions and where the reel is today in it's current form.

I can't give the forum name, or link, as I would get banned for that. But, if you google this line (making sure you use the quotation marks around it)
"Tree Machine's shotline reel"
google may take you there.

As far as how much, that is discussed there. As far as availability, we go into that, too.

I believe it is an offense to the stated rules for me to be hawking gear here at Arboristsite as I am simply a member, not a sponsor. I'll offer a short list of pictures, but this thread is not about the reel itself, rather about shotline management as a whole.

 

[DUSTYCEDAR]

i use the yellow slick like that is thicker and a extenshion cord real to keep it on.
not as slick as that setup but ok for now

 

[Tree Machine]

The disadvantage to that is in not being able to BigShot, or throw, the shotbag directly off the reel. This is a very big plus, bigger than I can explain in words. I can only come up with words like, fast, efficient, swift, joy, etc.

 

[rbtree]

hey, TM, long time no see. hope all is well with ya!

I've never chimed in on the various reel threads of your'n over the years. But I have a similar though rudimentary set-up. I just cut the top rim off a reel which held rope of some sort. Smooth out the edge, cut a couple of slits on the lower edge for the line ends to be wedged into.

I also have a Sherril "Falseheimer" and wanted a second, as they are superior to the cheap cubes, but the line reels work nicely.....

 

[Tree Machine]

Hi RB.

And everyone for that matter. Here's a pic of the shotline reels, the cube and the BigShot(s). I use the cube from time to time, just to keep things mixed up. I don't generally like to do the same things the same way, same method every time. This helps to better understand the differences, find newer, better ways and appreciate (by direct experience and comparison)what works best for you.

And it boils down to that, really. A zippered lunch cooler, a woman's purse, a round metal cookie container; they may all work just swell for a lot of dudes. The line tamer I think is brilliant as long as you can keep track of it and have fresh batteries on hand. If a plastic pail and fat polypropylene line tied to a baseball works great for you, you may see no need to try anything else.

With the shotline reel, severel things come into play. It's more a one-piece system than other methods. The line and reel are integral, mated if you will. I had a strong gust blow my cube over once, the line came out, rolled in the ivy, major mess. Rare occurance, but with the reel, that would never happen.

Compactness. I can fit and carry five reels inside one five gallon bucket, though I don't. I only carry two. They can be stowed flat, horizontal, or hung vertically on a screw on the wall. Or inside a rope bag.

Control. Being able to fire a 25 M shot directly off the reel, predictably, tangle-free every time, Mmmmm! If your shot goes wayward, you can stop it, instantly and hands-free by simply stepping lightly on the reel with your foot. This is also helpful on drain shots where you want to stop the shotbag right after it crests the tie-in point. Saves time in not having to pull the line and bag back up to trace over limbs and such. Also extends the life of the BigShot as you don't have to ditch it in an effort to grab the running line by hand.

Speed. There's no setup, no opening anything, no second part of a two-part system. Just walk to your throw site, take the bag in hand, drop the reel to the ground and go. It's really as boiled-down as it can possibly get.
Once your throw has been made, line traced and the bag is back to the ground (and this is where it gets really fast...) clip off the bag, clip onto the rope and start haulin like a madman. For maximum fastness, use a mini biner on the ZingIt line, and an eye on the rope. This means bag-off, rope-on in the same motion (~1 second) and using long pulls flake your line onto the ground, not in a single pile, but in a flaked 'trail', if you will. In other words, as you pull line, take little steps backwards as you lay line onto the ground in no particular fashion, except not onto sticks and debris. When the rope reaches you, clip off the rope, clip on the bag, give it a toss, pick up the reel and start spinning. You will face away from the flaked line, stepping over the line with your leg and with your thighs together, create a little pressure on the line. This creates some tension on the line beween your legs and the reel, keeping the line perfectly taught and straight and with this simple method the accuracy and consistency of reeling the line back in is assured.

There's a nice sense of freedom, knowing shotline management is free of hassle and is so very fast and easy and consistent every time.

After all, our business is climbing and caring for trees, not futzing with line.

 

[TheKid]

tm,i think i like it, though i'm not sure how you are efficiently winding it back on the reel in a uniform fashion. can you explain this please? i'm not a big fan of the cheap sherill rebranded cube but i've found it works best for me now compared to what i've used. also, i understand the use of the 'biner for speed, but what about "streamlineability"? seems as though the 'biner might hang up. thanks in advance.

 

[Tree Machine]

I understand the use of the 'biner for speed, but what about "streamlineability"? seems as though the 'biner might hang up. thanks in advance.

It would seem that way, but it rarely, rarely does. It's a very small, light, aluminum biner with a surprisingly stiff wire gate. Its called a Micron by Black diamond and costs 4 bucks. Identical in all respects to the Hotwire, except for size. I can't speak for other mini biners as this one has performed to near perfection, it's the only aspect of the reel that hasn't been modified or upgraded.

As far as throwing, it doesn't seem to affect the throw as it's only a few grams in weight. As far as BigShotting, the ring-end of the bag goes toward you, the micron folds over top, away from you. I like Harrison Rockets, the area between the ring and the bag itself is flexible so the little biner will lay and stay on top of the bag during the shot. Stiff bags don't seem to work as well, nor do the long, pickle-shaped torpedo bags. The BigShot likes the weight of the bag compact, not spread-out.

 

[Tree Machine]

tm,i think i like it, though i'm not sure how you are efficiently winding it back on the reel in a uniform fashion. can you explain this please?

You use two hands, no other way around that. Proper line tension is required, we covered that. And reeling the line on in a manner that it will deploy without fail, every single time, is of utmost importance. This is easy to achieve, and a great question, Kid. I'll explain.

First thing, when winding the reel, you don't want it to wobble left-right. Keep your inner handle-hand stationary, and your winding hand winds. You will not need to force a top-speed reel-in. 3/4 speed and focus on smooth cranking and non-wobbly inner handle hand.


Firing the shot straight off the reel is part of the amazement, but this swift retrieval back on to the reel is really where it's at, as far as efficient shotline management.

So, in reeling the line back in, first, know that on any given shot you will only use 1/2 to 2/3 of the line. There will be an area of unused line that never changes, the first spooling across and maybe the next few windings across.

Starting with the first spooling, this begins at the inside of the spool (bottom) and works toward the top lip. This 'layer' should be tight and consistent from one side, all the way to the other. I will use my fingers to compress the coils down, and then continue the wind. Remember, this first layer detail only has to be done once, but it gives you the base for all subsequent layers.



Guys and gals, I could show this in video and you'd totally get it in mere seconds. Its important that I write it, though, but I'd like to get a few pictures today to supplement the words.

For now I need to go to work, and I'll bring my camera into the field and get the detail shots. I'll continue the explanation tonight if I have enough juice left, or in the morning over coffee.

Thanks for your patience. Drop in any other questions, though. I'll share fully.

 

[treemandan]

Dam thing is dangerous as Hell and gets me mad BUT without it I am just a man ( who can't climb a tree).
As far as putting it away? Not my job, I just make the mess. Ever get 3 stuck in one tree?
I had a few fish reels I converted, it wasn't hard, but they got broken OR it was just easier to flake it into a bucket when the reality set in.
If someone markets something that works I will be first to buy it... along with a new set of gaffs BUT it had better work.

 

[Tree Machine]

If someone markets something that works I will be first to buy it...

I need a few thousand of you. Then it might be feasable to shift my day job around.


Just to let you all know, I have no intention of marketing and selling these. I really enjoy what I do for a living and effective shotline management is an important facet of being a climber. I developed this reel because the cube and bucket gig just wasn't working very effectively. If you work alone, a tangled shotline drops your progress to its knees.

Manufacturing and marketing and selling and boxing and shipping and billing and credit cards and phone calls answering the same sets of questions to sell a single unit would be my idea of career hell. Even overseeing someone who does all that has very little appeal to me.

The best I could do is show you how to make one, how to wind it properly and.... well, actually that's all there is.

But like I say, I am not a sponsor here. Even promoting a product that interferes with a product that a sponsor carries is pushing the limit. I'm trying to behave and respect the rules. I'm just not sure exactly what the rules are in this sense. I'm checking on that.

 

[wdanforth]

Tree Machine,

Has anyone found a good source for the Woods Industries Cord Reel Model 2870 that your Shotline Reel is made from? Their website is terrible. I requested a retailer which sells them and have not got an answer yet.

Great looking idea and the video I saw of you reeling it in was amazing. So fast you guys would not believe it.

Found the Video: http://treeguy.info/videos/shotline_reel.mov

 

[ClimbinArbor]

mod says tell us more guys.........

However, a good throwline reel could really revolutionize(sp) the industry, in the field for which it is intended. i would not be mad at anyone for wanting to hold off on their invention, for the right patening and such.......


i personally am using a $5 Target Falseheimer, run a strap around my neck and feed it in hand over hand. its the fastest thing ive found.....

 

[rmihalek]

Why not just flake your line onto a $3 4 x 6 foot tarp? That's what I do and I never have any troubles. I walk up to the tree and throw the tarp on the ground. It takes 3 seconds to open it up. I grab the shot bag (clipped to the line like TM has his), take a step back from the tarp so that the line is in front of me, and throw. If I want to stop the bag after it goes through the crotch, I step on the line.

When I want to stow the line, I just flake it back onto the tarp. The tarp folds up into half the volume of the plastic cylinder that TM uses.

 

[Tree Machine]

That's a good way to do it, Bob. Many rock climbers do their ropes like that. Quite popular.

Thanks wdanforth, for finding that video clip. Where'd you come up with that?

 

[wdanforth]

That other tree cutter forum that lost all their/our pictures a few months ago. I am sure you can figure it out. Links to content not stored on their server still work.

 

[Tree Machine]

Does that thread still exist? I thought they'd have deleted it when they deleted me.

I am still wondering about that. I'm missing some key pieces of a puzzle that I'd probably rather not know about. I pushed some sort of hot button I guess.


Guys and gals, my apologies for the delay. My area just got hit yesterday with the FOURTH major storm in 5 weeks (storm #2 was a tornado) with 27 calls today, my mind was just not on photography.

I used the shotline reel at least ten times today, some for setting climbing rope, though most for setting rigging from the ground; THAT is really enjoyable.